Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny

[LTC8K6]

From your link,



Excellent! Now we'll have photo of him actually groping someone. It seems his hand stayed there; she was in the act of being assaulted and recognised it as such. What a perfect opportunity to get a photo of said assault.



Oh dear, how convenient.

Are we seeing a pattern evolving?

Was she taking the picture, or was it a photographer?

She probably wasn't thinking of evidence gathering at the moment.

More likely she didn't want her picture taken with Franken (or anyone) groping her, and moved out of his grasp to avoid that sort of publicity. We all know what might have been done with such a photo, and how it might have been passed around.

 

[Marcus]

I don't know if his rather minor sexual harassment offenses are serious enough that he should resign, but I would like to see a real apology rather than this "I don't remember" crap.

 

[plague311]

The new accusation has me a little confused. She said he "cupped" her breast during a side hug photo op. Meaning he'd have to go around her body, under her arm, and cup the booby. I'm six foot and about 265 lbs, I'm a fairly big guy. My wife is certainly not. She's 5'5" and about 100 lbs. wet and wearing boots. I don't have a huge wingspan, but I'd put myself in the same ballpark as Franken. I would struggle to side hug my wife and cup her boob, that's a long reach. I'm not saying she's wrong, I'm just a little confused on the "how" it came to happen. Usually when you take a picture you curl into the person making it an even further reach. Has anyone seen the picture? I can't find one.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[LTC8K6]

Submitting to someone because they are powerful and they can drastically affect your life, career, and family, is not consenting.

It's coercion and extortion.

It's not hard to believe that people in positions of power would use that power on subordinates.

Matt Lauer probably thinks that woman he bent over a chair consented.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

I dont know. It seems like not grabbing some unfamiliar woman's breast might be a good first step.

Is that what happened?

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Care to clarify that word salad?

Yes.

A baseless accusation of motive even in the face of evidence that non-partisan rationale for being hesitant to accept an uncorroborated assertion does exist strikes me as a convenient conclusion for someone to arrive at.

 

[bluesjnr]

Was she taking the picture, or was it a photographer?

From the article it was a photographer.

She probably wasn't thinking of evidence gathering at the moment.

I agree with you but why ever not? If her story is true then she recognised that she was being assaulted and had a great opportunity to nail her assaulter. To keep quiet about it for 15 years enabled him (if her story is true) to assault goodness knows how many more women.

Now I think about it...... 15 years?

More likely she didn't want her picture taken with Franken (or anyone) groping her, and moved out of his grasp to avoid that sort of publicity. We all know what might have been done with such a photo, and how it might have been passed around.

I got the impression that the photo was being taken for her benefit.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

I don't know if his rather minor sexual harassment offenses are serious enough that he should resign, but I would like to see a real apology rather than this "I don't remember" crap.

I would like to see a real accusation other than "I remember it this way" crap.

 

[LTC8K6]

Compliance does not necessarily equal consent, especially if it involves a person in power over you.

More likely it involves feelings of being trapped and having to comply to get out without serious life and work consequences.

 

[LTC8K6]

From the article it was a photographer.



I agree with you but why ever not? If her story is true then she recognised that she was being assaulted and had a great opportunity to nail her assaulter. To keep quiet about it for 15 years enabled him (if her story is true) to assault goodness knows how many more women.

Now I think about it...... 15 years?



I got the impression that the photo was being taken for her benefit.

It's perfectly believable to me that she would not want to rock the boat with a Hollywood star in that situation, and would rather just escape without making a scene.

 

[The Big Dog]

Are we seeing a pattern evolving?

hell yes, Senator Frankengrope gets handsy as hell when he is taking pictures with women.

But perhaps her nipple had grown cold and he was just cupping it to warm it up because that is what "chivalry" dictates. I read it on iSkep

 

[LTC8K6]

https://theslot.jezebel.com/new-england-elected-official-says-al-franken-tried-to-g-1820849687

I didn't see that one posted...

 

[The Big Dog]

I would like to see a real accusation other than "I remember it this way" crap.

"When he put his arm around me, he groped my right breast. He kept his hand all the way over on my breast," Kemplin said.

"I've never had a man put their arm around me and then cup my breast. So he was holding my breast on the side."

...

“He took it and leaned toward me with his mouth open. I turned my head away from him and he landed a wet, open-mouthed kiss awkwardly on my cheek.”

... wait, have you read any of the women's accounts at all?? It seems like no

 

[theprestige]

https://theslot.jezebel.com/new-england-elected-official-says-al-franken-tried-to-g-1820849687

I didn't see that one posted...

The former elected official tells us that while she’s long admired Franken’s politics, she decided to talk about the incident to encourage him to accept responsibility for his actions.

“My intent in coming forward is not to negate the good work he’s done or smear his name,” she told us. “I want him to take personal responsibility for his actions, learn from this, not repeat the behavior, and go forward with respect in all his interactions with women.”​

That's some weapons-grade Stockholm Syndrome, right there.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Compliance does not necessarily equal consent, especially if it involves a person in power over you.

More likely it involves feelings of being trapped and having to comply to get out without serious life and work consequences.

So the victim "can't" speak up at the time.

The accused can't realistically defend themselves from what someone says they think they remember happening a certain way decades ago.

So excuse me if I have serious doubts that "call out culture" and a few self-flattering hashtags is going to be the vehicle that takes us into a new world of equality.

We were doing well with examples like the Stanford rapist and Steubenville. Showing how the justice system and public officials fail to act even in the face of overwhelming (physical and surveillance) evidence, even when the case is finished and a guilty verdict rendered, etc.

The problem I have with "Believe her" is that its a request to create a special case. I like equality. So claims of events long in the past that I did not witness, there is no corroboration for, are quite extraordinary in their scope, and being made by a person I have absolutely no familiarity with...

...is going to be treated with the same level of provisional acceptance or doubt regardless of if they are a man or woman.

 

[theprestige]

Why not?

It is a reflection of their reality. At no time does he apologize for it being his reality other than to respect he might have been (inadvertently) responsible for creating their reality.

How does this work, exactly? Franken doesn't have to respect their bodies, as long as he respects their experience after the fact?

 

[bluesjnr]

https://theslot.jezebel.com/new-england-elected-official-says-al-franken-tried-to-g-1820849687

I didn't see that one posted...

Oh for ***** sake. This is laughable.

I turned my head away from him and he landed a wet, open-mouthed kiss....

Dirty swine.

.....awkwardly on my cheek

The anim...... wait, what? Your cheek? Your *********** cheek!

I was stunned and incredulous. I felt demeaned. I felt put in my place.

Puuuuulease.

Never mind, you say it was onstage, in front of a full theatre..... we've got him this time. Bang to rights.

It was onstage in front of a full theater... It was insidious. It was in plain sight and yet nobody saw it.

The door is over there, **** off.

 

[beren]

[snip]
I agree with you but why ever not? If her story is true then she recognised that she was being assaulted and had a great opportunity to nail her assaulter. To keep quiet about it for 15 years enabled him (if her story is true) to assault goodness knows how many more women.

Now I think about it...... 15 years?
[snip]

Isn't this a well known and common reaction to to things like sexual assault. Are not freezing up, not being sure what to do, feeling powerless, feeling like it was your fault, etc, common and well known reactions.

A quick google found me this https://dean.williams.edu/policies/sexual-misconduct/some-common-reactions-to-sexual-assault/

Avoidance
It is common to avoid or want to avoid anything that is associated with the assault. Many survivors avoid getting assistance because it reminds them of the sexual assault. Although avoidance can initially help in coping, most survivors find that it is not a viable long-term solution.

And also this https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ms-dont-fight-or-yell/?utm_term=.f632062ec762

For example, freezing is a brain-based response to detecting danger, especially a predator’s attack. Think deer in the headlights.

As one woman told the Post, “I didn’t say no, but I didn’t really know what to do. I just kind of froze.”

Freezing occurs when the amygdala – a crucial structure in the brain’s fear circuitry – detects an attack and signals the brainstem to inhibit movement. It happens in a flash, automatically and beyond conscious control.

This article examines several reasons why victims may not come forward at all or may wait for what seems an awfully long time. There is too muhc there that is good for me to selectively quote.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...victims-sexual-harassment-come-forward-sooner




This and the other accusers may or may not be telling the truth, but the questions you are asking are ones with well known and common answers.

If you are asking these rhetorically to cast aspersions on the accusers' credibility, please stop because it is a despicable thing to do.

If you are asking out of ignorance, then look at my answers and at other, much more complete answers that are easy to find.

If there is a third possibility that I am ignoring, please let me know what it is.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

How does this work, exactly? Franken doesn't have to respect their bodies, as long as he respects their experience after the fact?

Repeating an assertion or using it as an embedded assumption in a further assertion doesn't make the assertion more credible, you do know that, right?

 

[luchog]

Yeah well that's one interpretation.

Being a gentleman is the other.

Nothing in your dictionary link refuted anything I said, particularly not the fact that it's still a sexist POV.

Further, the definition of "gentleman" used at the time that the codes of chivalry were formulated did not refer to a pattern of behaviour, but rather a social standing, one's position in a rigid socio-political hierarchy; a definition that persisted well up into the Victorian age. The notion of "gentleman" being a particular type of behaviour (which in itself often had sexist implications) is a very recent innovation.