Michael Shermer vs. "alternative history" Hancock and Crandall

[Reality Check]

Adds the religious myths of a flood and delusions about submerged "garden-grids"

Since, I claimed this was a really old advanced agriculture, that may have preceded the flood,

27 November 2017: Adds the religious myths of a flood and delusions about submerged "garden-grids" from not sourced Google Earth images.

This looks like the usual idiocy of thinking Google Earth is perfect and does not have artifacts + the persistent idiocy that people travelled and now lived hundreds or 1000s of meters below the sea surface + profound ignorance about the religious myths of a flood (it was not oceans draining for centuries and then refilling).

 

[Andy_Ross]

In England there is still evidence of Roman terraced fields on various hillsides where there are nearby Roman settlements. A good site to see it is in the area around Housesteads Fort on Hadrians Wall.

 

[Sparhafoc]

Maybe I should write a book and keep some of these finds secret until then!?

That's exactly how these things work. By publishing a book, you don't have to face the scrutiny of experts in relevant fields - the only adjudicators of your claims will be people with little to no clue about the topic matter or evidence, and they will mostly use their feelings to decide what they accept or reject.

That is, after all, how Graham Hancock and others like him hold any purchase on any conversation in the world.

 

[Sparhafoc]

Since, I claimed this was a really old advanced agriculture, that may have preceded the flood, I really should include submerged versions of these abandoned garden-grids:

There is no such thing as 'the flood'.

It is a religious myth, not an empirical fact.

And about the lines: it's a very clear example of the map not being the terrain. As people have explained to you, you are looking at an artifact of Google Maps, not lines present in the actual geology.

 

[Reality Check]

As people have explained to you, you are looking at an artifact of Google Maps, not lines present in the actual geology.

KOTA also has the habit of just asserting "there be lines" and not showing where those lines are. Thus the other possibility is undersea ridges. That is especially true for the delusion of "roads" between Easter Island and Chile. Google Earth juts has undersea riches winding between the island and coast of South America.
The current images are just as ridiculous with no location at all given.

 

[King of the Americas]

There is no such thing as 'the flood'.

It is a religious myth, not an empirical fact.

...

WHAAAAAT?

So there was never a land bridge between North America and Asia???

You REALLY believe the ocean levels have never changed...and no one challenged you???

Answer honestly...do you believe the Earth is a sphere?

 

[King of the Americas]

In England there is still evidence of Roman terraced fields on various hillsides where there are nearby Roman settlements. A good site to see it is in the area around Housesteads Fort on Hadrians Wall.

Any chance you can visit and attempt to date those ruin sites along the English coast I showed you last?

 

[Porpoise of Life]

WHAAAAAT?

So there was never a land bridge between North America and Asia???

You REALLY believe the ocean levels have never changed...and no one challenged you???

Answer honestly...do you believe the Earth is a sphere?

Misrepresent the argument the other poster is making, shift to a different ridiculous claim without supporting the previous one, and hope no one notices the distraction and everyone takes the bait. When challenged on the next wild claim, rinse and repeat.

How about you start providing evidence for your ridiculous claims?

 

[Craig B]

WHAAAAAT?

So there was never a land bridge between North America and Asia???

You REALLY believe the ocean levels have never changed...and no one challenged you???

Answer honestly...do you believe the Earth is a sphere?

You told us about

really old advanced agriculture, that may have preceded the flood​

So what do you mean by the flood, and when did this flood occur? What is the surviving evidence for this flood? Where are to be found traces of the advanced agriculture that may have preceded it?

 

[King of the Americas]

You told us about

really old advanced agriculture, that may have preceded the flood​

So what do you mean by the flood, and when did this flood occur? What is the surviving evidence for this flood? Where are to be found traces of the advanced agriculture that may have preceded it?

THE flood that consumed Atlantis.

The countless submerged ruins I have already posted...

I would like to address the 'advanced nature' of the grid gardens- THEY'RE MASSIVE. In fact they are so big and expansive, current farmers can only fill parts of them. Many are still in disrepair and or abandoned.

 

[King of the Americas]

Misrepresent the argument the other poster is making, shift to a different ridiculous claim without supporting the previous one, and hope no one notices the distraction and everyone takes the bait. When challenged on the next wild claim, rinse and repeat.

How about you start providing evidence for your ridiculous claims?

The poster in question said there was no flood, that it was religious myth.

Do YOU seriously believe that???

 

[King of the Americas]

KOTA also has the habit of just asserting "there be lines" and not showing where those lines are. Thus the other possibility is undersea ridges. That is especially true for the delusion of "roads" between Easter Island and Chile. Google Earth juts has undersea riches winding between the island and coast of South America.
The current images are just as ridiculous with no location at all given.

"Roads?"

When did I ever say that???

 

[Craig B]

THE flood that consumed Atlantis.

The countless submerged ruins I have already posted...

I would like to address the 'advanced nature' of the grid gardens- THEY'RE MASSIVE. In fact they are so big and expansive, current farmers can only fill parts of them. Many are still in disrepair and or abandoned.

If that's really what you meant, why did you post this?

WHAAAAAT?

So there was never a land bridge between North America and Asia???

You REALLY believe the ocean levels have never changed...and no one challenged you???

Answer honestly...do you believe the Earth is a sphere?

So we either believe in Atlantis or whaaaaat? We don't even know that the Earth is a sphere?

You're trolling again. Stop it. It won't convince anyone, and it will deter people from trying to have serious discourse with you.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

The poster in question said there was no flood, that it was religious myth.

Do YOU seriously believe that???

The Deluge of Near-Eastern mythology, that supposedly flooded every inhabited area of the entire world at once and wiped out all but a few humans and animals?
That never happened.
You have stated in the past that you don't believe this happened either, so I have no idea why you're bringing this up.

Unless you're dishonestly trying to equivocate between The Flood, and 'a flood' because you were called on your dumb assertions, that is.

Once again, instead of trying to distract us by misrepresenting other people's posts and then trying to divert attention to your next wild claim to avoid having to provide evidence for the previous one... How about you start providing actual evidence for your nonsense?

 

[Foolmewunz]

You can only believe that, if you have not employed the links I have provided.

*A corrupt government teetering on collapse says it plants millions of trees in the desert, without raising taxes, or reducing unemployment, and YOU JUST SWALLOW that...???

Yup...THAT ladies and gents is willful intellectual dishonesty...

Does your Google Maps have a friend with topographical information? Please locate the Chilean desert for us on a map. Hint: It ain't where you think it is. The Atacama is farther north, considerably farther north. The reforestation program was in former forest areas that had been depleted by farmers. It was quite condusive to growing trees as they'd been growing there for millenia before the locals cut 'em all down.

And there was no huge investment needed. If you'd read your own links you'd know that it was done through the private sector. The government expenditures were in the forms of tax relief and trade benefits for the individuals or corporations that sowed the new trees. That money never shows up in a budget.

Disclaimer: I'm at a disadvantage because I've actually been to both the Chilean desert (better known as the Atacama) and the areas down south in the farm belt where the reforestation program took place. There are places in the Atacama where the annual rainfall is 0 and a couple of locales that have no reported rainfall for the last hundred years. Even intense watering wouldn't allow you to grow things there,... other than native desert flora.

At least learn the geography of the places you're bee essing about!

 

[King of the Americas]

Does your Google Maps have a friend with topographical information? Please locate the Chilean desert for us on a map. Hint: It ain't where you think it is. The Atacama is farther north, considerably farther north. The reforestation program was in former forest areas that had been depleted by farmers. It was quite condusive to growing trees as they'd been growing there for millenia before the locals cut 'em all down.

And there was no huge investment needed. If you'd read your own links you'd know that it was done through the private sector. The government expenditures were in the forms of tax relief and trade benefits for the individuals or corporations that sowed the new trees. That money never shows up in a budget.

Disclaimer: I'm at a disadvantage because I've actually been to both the Chilean desert (better known as the Atacama) and the areas down south in the farm belt where the reforestation program took place. There are places in the Atacama where the annual rainfall is 0 and a couple of locales that have no reported rainfall for the last hundred years. Even intense watering wouldn't allow you to grow things there,... other than native desert flora.

At least learn the geography of the places you're bee essing about!

I have become very familiar withe the physical geography of the area in question...it is a desert. It has always been a desert. It is still a desert. This was NOT a reforestation project by private individuals, nor a government project from the 1960's.

---

"Even intense watering wouldn't allow you to grow things there,..."

EXACTLY. Which means, something extra ordinary happened to result in millions of trees showing up in the desert!

---

OBJECTION: Speculation.

"Private sector..."??? Produce the names of the project designer, lead engineer, or ANY of the workers, or admit this is pure speculative fiction with ZERO evidence.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

Produce the names of the project designer, lead engineer, or ANY of the workers, or admit this is pure speculative fiction with ZERO evidence.

Hahahahahahaha!

...

You first!

 

[King of the Americas]

The Deluge of Near-Eastern mythology, that supposedly flooded every inhabited area of the entire world at once and wiped out all but a few humans and animals?
That never happened.
You have stated in the past that you don't believe this happened either, so I have no idea why you're bringing this up.

Unless you're dishonestly trying to equivocate between The Flood, and 'a flood' because you were called on your dumb assertions, that is.

Once again, instead of trying to distract us by misrepresenting other people's posts and then trying to divert attention to your next wild claim to avoid having to provide evidence for the previous one... How about you start providing actual evidence for your nonsense?

Stop pettifogging! You are conflating issues.

'The' or 'a' flood, coastal and other low-lying garden grid HAVE been consumed by ocean level rises. WHEN this happened, exactly or how quickly is indeed a point of contention.

---

Pre-Columbian Agriculture, ON THIS SCALE, was or is unknown but the paper I provided does include the dating of the occupation of these terra formations.

They were not 'fully' occupied at the time of Columbus' arrival.

 

[King of the Americas]

Hahahahahahaha!

...

You first!

They don't exist. You are making stuff up.

If they exist, which is your claim- THEN PROVIDE THEM.

 

[King of the Americas]

The Deluge of Near-Eastern mythology, that supposedly flooded every inhabited area of the entire world at once and wiped out all but a few humans and animals?
That never happened.
You have stated in the past that you don't believe this happened either, so I have no idea why you're bringing this up.

Unless you're dishonestly trying to equivocate between The Flood, and 'a flood' because you were called on your dumb assertions, that is.

Once again, instead of trying to distract us by misrepresenting other people's posts and then trying to divert attention to your next wild claim to avoid having to provide evidence for the previous one... How about you start providing actual evidence for your nonsense?

Right...because there isn't enough ice, if melted, to cover all of the land...but...coastal cities, and an entire civilization was halted by a sudden sea level rise...any maybe some other post-asteroid mayhem...

The tale is 'everywhere' ...even in remote cultures, seemingly disconnected to exposures of Noah or Gilgamesh. I hold that these myths are based on a truth, but the story has lost the true nature of the details.

I have posted countless images of coastal flood ruins...some have circular walls (like Atlantis), and some have the grid gardens I mentioned. They are 'evidence of a global flood.'

Look, I can't force you to address facts, nor correlate data in the manner I have to arrive at my conclusions. All that I can do is provide you access to information.

Your misunderstanding(s) in regards to the evidence presented is your doing, not mine.