Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny

NoahFence said:
FYI....

Coservatives need to shut the **** up about sexual assault and let liberals take care of this. You people lost that right when you voted trump in.
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Haha oh wow. "Let the liberals take care of this"? Like you took care of Bill Clinton? Like you took care of all the liberal money men in Hollywood who've been getting a free pass for decades?

As much as anything else, Trump's election is a reaction years of hypocrisy and shrill preaching from the left. You lost the option of keeping yourself above it all a long time ago.
 
dudalb said:
Agreed, but we are talking not about criminal charges but about fitness for Public Office. I think what Franken did was bad enough so that he should no longer serve in the US Senate. You can do thing that are not illegal but are bad enough so your career as an elected official should be over.
And there is also it would make the Dems look like total hypocrites when they go after Moore.
ANyway, Franken is going to be tossed under the bus by the Democrats.one way or the other.
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Franken probably will step down. Quite likely this will happen sooner rather than later.

I'm still not on board with the idea that they are equally bad actions. They are both bad things to do but one kiss with a grown woman is just, in my opinion, not equal to or worse than locking a child in your car and going grab hands on her.
 
NoahFence said:
stop lying.
He's being raked over the coals in CNN and by democratic senators.

Sorry. You don't get to claim double standards.
Stop. Lying.
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I was referring to this thread. You know where people post her pictures and her history as a model and waitress to assert that with that history she has had much worse...

You know classic slut shaming.

Because we all know that her history has absolutely nothing at all to justify the senators actions.

Nothing. Classic victim blaming. Really contemptible arguments.
 
dudalb said:
And this is about as good an example of "What Aboutism" as I have seen.
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What, really? Did you not read my earlier post where I nearly literally said "hey what about this secret Congressional hush money fund?"

I you think Franken's deeds disqualify him from public office, that's fine, but I don't think it would cost a million dollars a year in sexual harassment lawsuit settlements. Yet someone is spending that much. I want to know who they are, and question whether they should be in public office, not least of which because they clearly feel entitled to the use of taxpayer funds to sweep their misdeeds under the rug.
 
Wow I am glad I have been pretty consistent in the Moore-thread on three points that I feel are relevant there:

1. That the accusations against Moore aren't terrible - he didn't rape, the 14-yo victim was certainly illegal, but neither a child nor raped in the common (not legal) sense - i.e. a scale needs to be applied
2. That the incidents with teenagers 16+ were, by themselves, totally legal and only marginally a problem ethics-wise; they mainly serve to corroborate the plausibility that Moore hit on teenagers in his early 30s
3. That the big problem NOW is not the past incident but his denial of the same, him calling the victim a liar.

And so, I can consistently offer an appraisal of the Franken incident:
1. It was wrong, but not terrible. He didn't rape anybody, and she wasn't even a teenager. Still wrong. And on a scale. Less wrong that Moore actually fondling a 14-yo.
2. It is of relevance that - so far! - no other accusations have popped up to establish a pattern. But let's better wait a few days or weeks before weighing this! If Franken has been in similar situations in the past (a male-dominated environment, a female entertainer known for sexiness), it might be likely there were more incidents of this kind
3. He quickly reacted - acknowledging the legitimacy of the accusation, and offering to have it tested in an impartial investigation.

I think Alabama voters ought not vote for Moore - not so much on account of one incident in the past, but because of his past patterns of behaviour (he was a known predatore of little girls!!) and his current denial of the same - PLUS because of his self-righteous politics.
But IF Alabamans vote Moore to the Senate, I think Senate has no business removing him. The accusations were well in the past, and he cannot be concicted for any crime even if one was committed. A grave measure like eviction from Senate should not be done on foul smell alone.

Similarly, if Franken owns up to this past incident (and so far, his reaction looks promising), and if it doesn't turn out this was part of a pattern, I see no need to have him leave the Senate. Let voters take care of that when and if he is up for re-election (in 3 years).
 
The Big Dog said:
I was referring to this thread. You know where people post her pictures and her history as a model and waitress to assert that with that history she has had much worse...

You know classic slut shaming.

Because we all know that her history has absolutely nothing at all to justify the senators actions.

Nothing. Classic victim blaming. Really contemptible arguments.
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You do realise that you are tarring all liberals in this thread for the actions of one?
 
theprestige said:
...
As much as anything else, Trump's election is a reaction years of hypocrisy and shrill preaching from the left. You lost the option of keeping yourself above it all a long time ago.
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This is 50% nonsense.
Trump's nomination as the GOP candidate, against all odds, against the party leadership, was a reaction years of hypocrisy and shrill preaching from the right, i.e. within the Republican party. The "swamp" Trump offered to drain, the establishment he was fighting, is as much the Republicans' as the Democrats'.
 
The Big Dog said:
...
You know classic slut shaming.

Because we all know that her history has absolutely nothing at all to justify the senators actions.
...
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I think this is one of the lies you were asked to stop repeating.

Please stop repeating this lie. It is utter, vile nonsense. As I explained above.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
What, really? Did you not read my earlier post where I nearly literally said "hey what about this secret Congressional hush money fund?"

I you think Franken's deeds disqualify him from public office, that's fine, but I don't think it would cost a million dollars a year in sexual harassment lawsuit settlements. Yet someone is spending that much. I want to know who they are, and question whether they should be in public office, not least of which because they clearly feel entitled to the use of taxpayer funds to sweep their misdeeds under the rug.
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Totally agree, can you imagine the scandal if it had come out that FOX or WB or Universal had million dollar slush funds to pay out abuse claims and keep it hush hush. Not only should any politicians involved in sexual harassment and abuse be outed, and their law suits paid by themselves, those that broke the law need to be dealt with by the law, and those that didn't manage to get to that stage need to stand down and let their electorates decide their fates.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Hang on? What Moore is accused of would be called "Grooming" these days, why should he not be in prison? (other than that the incident happened so long ago it can't be prosecuted.)
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Well, that's why.
There were two possibilities:
1. Charged and convicted before statue of limitations ran out. Then he may have gone to jail 35 years ago and would have been out more than 30 years ago - in which case he definitely should not be in jail (present tense).
2. Statue of limitation ran out - can't be charges and convicted, and should not be in jail.

Either way: Should not be in jail, period.

Unless someone is proposing he should have been jailed for 30+ years.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Totally agree, can you imagine the scandal if it had come out that FOX or WB or Universal had million dollar slush funds to pay out abuse claims and keep it hush hush. Not only should any politicians involved in sexual harassment and abuse be outed, and their law suits paid by themselves, those that broke the law need to be dealt with by the law, and those that didn't manage to get to that stage need to stand down and let their electorates decide their fates.
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Did you miss how they handled Ailes and O'Reilly?
 
dudalb said:
Franken shoud announce his retirement after his current term ends at a minimum.
First person who tries to let Franken off the hook because he is on "Our" side I will treat just like I treat the idiots who are supporting Moore. Granted, what Moore did was worse then what Franken did ,but that is no excuse.
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Except there isn’t any proof on what Moore did.
 
PhantomWolf said:
You do realise that you are tarring all liberals in this thread for the actions of one?
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actually there have been more than a few people supporting that in this thread, but in point of fact I was commenting on Noah's suggestion.
 
Travis said:
Franken probably will step down. Quite likely this will happen sooner rather than later.

I'm still not on board with the idea that they are equally bad actions. They are both bad things to do but one kiss with a grown woman is just, in my opinion, not equal to or worse than locking a child in your car and going grab hands on her.
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Except one there is proof, the other there isn’t.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Relevant, I hate to go for the history thing, it's not always fair. But this does seem at least a little relevant.
....

This is interesting:

So is the Greg Gutfeld interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qBpS_Nhr8E
Pro-gun and a lot of sexual innuendo jokes.
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Skeptic Ginger said:
You do have to wonder how this stands out in her mind as the quintessential sexual harassment when clearly it must have been common in her life. You would think she had a gazillion worse complaints to be made.

Link is NSFW.
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Oystein said:
I think this is one of the lies you were asked to stop repeating.

Please stop repeating this lie. It is utter, vile nonsense. As I explained above.
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Yeah, it is not a lie because her history and her photographs have nothing to do with and do not in any way justify his conduct. Bringing them up is blatant obvious slut shaming.

SG linked the accuser's bikini pictures in this thread and I am being accused of "vile" nonsense
 
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