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Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories V: Five for Fighting

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Evidence is worthless without context.

You have chosen an argument where corroboratory evidence is unavailable (autopsy photos) because you think it allows you room to argue conspiracy without explaining how it was pulled off. A lot of Ctists use this strategy, and it always rings hollow. Your EOP issue is exactly the same tactic as the Roswell Crash folks who draw upon after-the-fact testimony to make their case, and like your EOP there are photographs that have been used to assert something fishy was going on.

Like Roswell fanatics you have come late to the JFK CT show and waste time foisting CTs that have been put to bed decades ago.

Truth is a philosophical concept, fact is a scientific one. You have stated you came into this looking for a conspiracy, and not with an objective mind. I was a CT-Loon for over 25 years, and it's easy to find conspiracies everywhere when you have the mindset that conspiracies are everywhere.

The fact is JFK was struck by two of the three bullets fired by Oswald from the 6th floor of the TSBD. All of the known facts point to his guilt. None of the facts point to a conspiracy. And nobody can say that the FBI and CIA didn't look for a conspiracy, the record are testament to how hard they looked for one.

Lets start with a few questions.

If the single-assassin theory is true, why does the evidence indicates that the autopsy doctors lied about how late they discovered Kennedy's tracheotomy was made over a small bullet hole in the throat?

If the single-assassin theory is true, why would there seem to be so many autopsy photographs missing that would clear up a lot of mysteries?

If the single-assassin theory is true, what's your explanation for the dark air cavity between the right neck tissues on the x-ray that seem to lead from the upper neck to the lower throat?

Or the possible bullet fragment Cyril Wecht once reported seeing on the unpublished X-rays of Kennedy's upper neck area?

If the single-assassin theory is true, what is your explanation for the EOP wound?

Why would the HSCA feel the need to literally coerce Humes to lie under oath that he agreed with their "cowlick entry wound" theory?

If the single-assassin theory is true, why is there testimonial evidence with corroborating photographic evidence of a loud gunshot at around Zapruder Frame 190, while 223 is the earliest time you can say Connally is reacting to a bullet, with his popped lapel and all?

yadda yadda, why is there no strong witness evidence for a loud gunshot before Zapruder Frame 190, and yet Connally always said that the bullet that struck him came only a brief moment after he heard the first loud gunshot (note Connally reported not hearing the bullet that struck him at this time, leaving leeway for the idea of a silenced round)?

yadda yadda, what is your evidence that a rifle shot fired from the TSBD Sniper's Nest could create the acoustic illusion within Dealey Plaza that caused 40-50% of witnesses to claim that they thought the shots came from the grassy knoll?
 
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Notice how my rants include actual evidence that can not be ignored in a crime case

Sorry, recollections from 15 or 33 years after the crime don't seriously qualify as 'actual evidence'.


while everybody else is just whining and chanting old mantras like a weakened fictional antagonist?

Still waiting for you to post the evidence for just SOME of your recent claims. Do you really need a reminder? Ok. Here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12059405&postcount=2419


Serious question: If it were ever proven that the official photographs and x-rays are incompatible with the existence of a small bullet hole resembling an entry wound near the external occipital protuberance, why should any rational person then not then logically conclude that they are faked?

Because you'd be ignoring the more reasonable and rational conclusion that the x-rays and autopsy photos are legitimate, and what you think you see isn't an entry wound.


The official autopsy report, partially based on notes made at the autopsy, says "2.5 centimeters to the right and slightly above the external occipital protuberance".

Yes, we're all familiar with that quote.


A face sheet diagram

What's a face sheet? Humes himself said he didn't know what that was.

Q. Would it be fair to say that Exhibit No. 1 is the autopsy face sheet for President Kennedy?
A. This?
Q. Yes.
A. No. It's not the face sheet. It's just an aide-memoire that we use routinely. It never appears like that in an autopsy report, no.
Q. Is there any other name that this document would go by other than face sheet that you're aware of?
A. I never heard it called a face sheet, to tell you the truth. I never heard it referred to in that way. I can't tell you, no.




...marked at the actual autopsy and stained in the President's blood, indicates a small wound roughly in the occipital area.

You mean this? Isn't that at the top of the ears?
http://www.paulseaton.com/jfk/humes-notes/boswell-sheet1.htm

And didn't Humes testify that drawings are not the best way to determine that? Why, yes. Yes, he did:
Commander HUMES - When appraised of the necessity for our appearance before this Commission, we did not know whether or not the photographs which we had made would be available to the Commission. So to assist in making our testimony more understandable to the Commission members, we decided to have made drawings, schematic drawings, of the situation as we saw it, as we recorded it and as we recall it. These drawings were made under my supervision and that of Dr. Boswell by Mr. Rydberg, whose initials are H. A. He is a hospital corpsman, second class, and a medical illustrator in our command at Naval Medical School.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you provide him with the basic information from which these drawings were made?
Commander HUMES - Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER - Distances, that sort of thing?
Commander HUMES - Yes, sir. We had made certain physical measurements of the wounds, and of their position on the body of the late President, and we provided these and supervised directly Mr. Rydberg in making these drawings.
Mr. SPECTER - Have you checked the drawings subsequent to their preparation to verify their accuracy?
Commander HUMES - Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER - And proportion?
Commander HUMES - I must state these drawings are in part schematic. The artist had but a brief period of some 2 days to prepare these. He had no photographs from which to work, and had to work under our description, verbal description, of what we had observed.
Mr. SPECTER - Would it be helpful to the artist, in redefining the drawings if that should become necessary, to have available to him the photographs or X-rays of the President?
Commander HUMES - If it were necessary to have them absolutely true to scale. I think it would be virtually impossible for him to do this without the photographs.
Mr. SPECTER - And what is the reason for the necessity for having the photographs?
Commander HUMES - I think that it is most difficult to transmit into physical measurements the--by word the exact situation as it was seen to the naked eye. The photographs were there is no problem of scale there because the wounds, if they are changed in size or changed in size and proportion to the structures of the body and so forth, when we attempt to give a description of these findings, it is the bony prominences, I cannot, which we used as points of references, I cannot, transmit completely to the illustrator where they were situated.




A serious load of autopsy participants have described a small wound at this location. Dr.'s Humes, Boswell, and Finck all throughly examined the body and detailed this. Then you have John Stringer, the photographer who was probably the fourth closest to the body. These golden four have all disagreed with the "four inches above the EOP" theory, denied the red spot on the back-of-head photographs was the wound they reported, and continued until their deaths insisting that this wound was near the EOP, near the base of the head, not on the top of the head. Then you have the small cast; Francis X. O'Neil examined the body himself and made statements and a drawings indicating a wound on the base of the head, in the "lower head" area. Then you have Charles Boyers, Roy Kellerman, and Richard Lipsey (Lipsey even called it a "upper neck" wound, but proceeded to clarify that he meant in the lower head area and marked face sheet diagram indicating a small wound near the EOP). I guess you could include the mortician Tom Robinson, who handled the body and told the HSCA he remembered seeing the doctors probing the base of the head (note that when reading his testimony or looking at his drawings of the large head wound, that the cranium had to have already been enlarged by the time he arrived at the autopsy). There are literally no humans present at the autopsy who were ever interviewed and agreed with any theory that the photographs or X-rays supported the theory that there was any entry wound high on the top of the head, and not low near the base of the head/EOP. There are virtually none alive by now to change their minds. That's history.

It's also bunk. On Tuesday I made this point about the terror truck attack in NYC: "But it astounds me that three years from now, if a witness remembers the driver of the Home Depot pick up truck as getting out of a Ryder truck, that some knucklehead would argue that means the driver didn't commit the attack.

And that is precisely the type of argument JFK conspiracy theorists put forward as arguments for a cover-up / conspiracy / Oswald's innocence (pick one or more)."


And we can all see that's EXACTLY what you're doing here. You are comparing and contrasting the documented evidence - the autopsy photos and radiographs - against the recollections of witnesses from 15 or 33 years after the fact, and attempting to use those recollections to throw out the documented evidence. No, that's wrong. You have it precisely backwards.

When you have documented hard evidence like a rifle or bullets, or photographs and radiographs from an autopsy, then if someone remembers it was a different rifle, they are clearly wrong.

If they remember it was a different shaped bullet, they are clearly wrong.

If they place the wound in a place not seen on the autopsy materials, they are clearly wrong.

That's real life for you. That's how real life works. You discard the recollections that don't agree with the evidence, not the other way around. All you are doing here is following the CT playbook word for word.


This is a hypothetical, of course. I think the official evidence could fit very well with a missile entrance near the EOP; nothing has to be faked. There are many serious indications that the panels of experts hired to re-evaluate the official JFK medical-legal evidence (totaling only about a dozen individual human forensic pathologists, and the occasional radiologist known to be experienced in X-rays) were ridden with a pressure to make the official evidence confirm the basic autopsy and official conclusion that the head wounds were caused by one bullet, entering from "above and behind".

Really? They were pressured to reach that conclusion? Cite the evidence for that. You can't and you won't because you don't have anything whatsoever.


The Clark Panel and HSCA's cowlick entry was truly a unique pet theory in the hsitory of forensic evidence. Then you have about a dozen more forensic pathologists and some radiologists who have independently examined the official X-rays and either couldn't identify any particular entry wound or specifically denied the cowlick entry theory (for example, radiologist John Ebersole from the actual JFK autopsy was shown the official X-rays first by the Clark Panel and then the HSCA, where he was interviewed and did not agree with their "entry wound on the top of the head" theory).

So what? The hard evidence takes precedence over any recollections from 10 or 15 years after the fact.

Or was it a Ryder truck used in the terror attack?

Hank
 
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Lets start with a few questions.

Funny, many have asked you questions which you never answer, however I am not a coward.

If the single-assassin theory is true, why does the evidence indicates that the autopsy doctors lied about how late they discovered Kennedy's tracheotomy was made over a small bullet hole in the throat?

Nobody lied. The Parkland doctors enlarged it, and this fact was not communicated in a timely manner to the pathologists at Bethesda. There is no mystery here. Based on the poor way you've framed the question the lone shooter theory is true.

If the single-assassin theory is true, why would there seem to be so many autopsy photographs missing that would clear up a lot of mysteries?

There are photographs missing. Nobody can point to any, and the negatives are not kept at the National Archives. Again, based on the poor framing of your question the lone assassin theory is true.

If the single-assassin theory is true, what's your explanation for the dark air cavity between the right neck tissues on the x-ray that seem to lead from the upper neck to the lower throat?

Depends, what would the x-ray look like if his arms were at his side as they were when the bullet struck? What? You've never thought of that? Yeah, those muscles move with the skeleton.

Or the possible bullet fragment Cyril Wecht once reported seeing on the unpublished X-rays of Kennedy's upper neck area?

The same Cyril Wecht who, after viewing the autopsy materials for the Rockefeller Commission, agreed with the original autopsy? That Cyril Wecht? Also the only one to suggest a fragment there?

If the single-assassin theory is true, what is your explanation for the EOP wound?

I concur with the Autopsy. I do this because I am not a pathologist, I was not in the operating room with the body, have not seen all of the autopsy photographs, and have not been presented with any credible evidence to counter the Autopsy findings. Plus the entry can be seen in the Zapruder Film, if you've done any shooting you'd be able to see it.

Why would the HSCA feel the need to literally coerce Humes to lie under oath that he agreed with their "cowlick entry wound" theory?

Why would the HSCA coerce Humes while at the same time requisitioning CIA and FBI files going back to 1947 covering all kinds of red herrings?

Why would a commission looking for a conspiracy browbeat a key witness into holding to the official story instead of woo?

The answer to both questions is he wasn't coerced. Dr. Humes doesn't come across as someone who can be intimidated, and has denied such claims viciously each time they have been brought up

If the single-assassin theory is true, why is there testimonial evidence with corroborating photographic evidence of a loud gunshot at around Zapruder Frame 190, while 223 is the earliest time you can say Connally is reacting to a bullet, with his popped lapel and all?

The great thing about silent film footage is one can find a witness to testify to anything you want. For all we know the limo driver was playing the Beatles on the radio.

I have to ask again, how many people have you seen shot? The internet is full of videos of people, and guess what? No two people react to getting shot the same way. And since interpreting the Zapruder Film has become a parlor game within a parlor game the fact is that the film shows both men reacting to the same bullet as they come out from behind the sign.



yadda yadda, why is there no strong witness evidence for a loud gunshot before Zapruder Frame 190, and yet Connally always said that the bullet that struck him came only a brief moment after he heard the first loud gunshot (note Connally reported not hearing the bullet that struck him at this time, leaving leeway for the idea of a silenced round)?

Echo and shock work against the governor as a reliable witness.

yadda yadda, what is your evidence that a rifle shot fired from the TSBD Sniper's Nest could create the acoustic illusion within Dealey Plaza that caused 40-50% of witnesses to claim that they thought the shots came from the grassy knoll?

Easy. The height of Oswald's position made for a clean sonic pathway allowing for the report of his rifle to cleanly echo off the faces of the DalTex, City Jail, the old Records building,and the Trademark and Patent Office building (directly facing the TSBD). The height gave an unobstructed path to the lip of the Triple Underpass. The folks standing on North Houston Street and Elm Street would have heard the shot correctly come from above them. The folks further down Houston toward South Houston Street, and Commerce Street would have heard the shots come from the Grassy Knoll. Looking at the existing footage most of the people who ran to the Grassy Knoll came from Commerce Street.

The Trademark & Patent Building drove the sound back to the Grassy Knoll area. This has been mapped dozens of time. Throw in the fact that the Plaza is a bowl shape and you have an acoustical nightmare.

By the way, there are dozens of Acoustics Software programs on the market, the science of sound is harder to beat than ballistics.
 
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Lets start with a few questions.
If the single-assassin theory is true, why does the evidence indicates that the autopsy doctors lied about how late they discovered Kennedy's tracheotomy was made over a small bullet hole in the throat?

It doesn't indicate that. No many how many times you repeat that falsehood, it doesn't become more true with repetition.



If the single-assassin theory is true, why would there seem to be so many autopsy photographs missing that would clear up a lot of mysteries?

Since you haven't seen these supposed missing photographs, how can you claim they would clear up anything? For that matter, you're simply begging the question, assuming there are mysteries, and then claiming photos you've never seen would clear them up.

That's a nonsensical argument.



If the single-assassin theory is true, what's your explanation for the dark air cavity between the right neck tissues on the x-ray that seem to lead from the upper neck to the lower throat?

Uhh, allow me to take a wild guess, the same explanation Dr. Lattimer and every forensic pathologist thought it showed? The bullet path from the upper back that exited JFK's throat?

Instead of asking nonsensical / meaningless questions, why not try answering the ones you've been asked, repeatedly, and avoid studiously?



Or the possible bullet fragment Cyril Wecht once reported seeing on the unpublished X-rays of Kennedy's upper neck area?

Once reported? Did anyone else report it? Did Wecht ever mention it again? If it's a 'possible' bullet fragment, doesn't that mean it's also possible it's NOT a bullet fragment? You will ignore this question.



If the single-assassin theory is true, what is your explanation for the EOP wound?

You are begging the question by inserting as a fact ("the EOP wound") the very point you need to establish is true.



Why would the HSCA feel the need to literally coerce Humes to lie under oath that he agreed with their "cowlick entry wound" theory?

You've really got this begging the question logical fallacy down pat, don't you? Why not mix it up a bit and try some other logical fallacies?



If the single-assassin theory is true, why is there testimonial evidence with corroborating photographic evidence of a loud gunshot at around Zapruder Frame 190, while 223 is the earliest time you can say Connally is reacting to a bullet, with his popped lapel and all?

The precise time of the first shot was never established, but it has been argued here and elsewhere that the first shot missed, and Connally (and Kennedy) can be seen reacting almost simultaneously to a bullet strike at Z223.



yadda yadda, why is there no strong witness evidence for a loud gunshot before Zapruder Frame 190

That's not true.



... and yet Connally always said that the bullet that struck him came only a brief moment after he heard the first loud gunshot

That's true, but entirely misleading. He defined the entire assassination shooting sequence as happening in a brief span of time, but estimated that brief span of time as 10 to 12 seconds!
Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate as to the timespan between the first shot which you heard and the shot which you heretofore characterized as the third shot?
Governor CONNALLY. It was a very brief span of time; oh, I would have to say a matter of seconds. I don't know, 10, 12 seconds.


That's five to six seconds between shots. Your argument is contrary to most other CTs, like Robert Harris, who claimed the second and third shots were closer together than the first and second (consult the earlier portions of this thread chain). You are arguing above for the first and second shots being bunched together.

But earlier this year you argued the last two - not the first two - were bunched together here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11757954&postcount=2434
"I really think the best option is to have the first shot at z190-224, and the last two shots bunched together."

So you are caught once again flip-flopping around like a fish on a boat deck. So which shots were closer together? The first and second or the second and third? Or are they all bunched?



...(note Connally reported not hearing the bullet that struck him at this time, leaving leeway for the idea of a silenced round)?

I'm tempted to quote what Glenn said to Rick over the radio the first time they spoke in the Walking Dead television series. The bullet travels faster than sound, so the sound would have arrived at Connally after a bullet had just transected his trunk, sliced through his wrist, and struck his thigh. I think he had more important things to worry about than listening for the sound of the gunshot at that point. As Connally himself explained:
Mr. SPECTER. In your view, which bullet caused the injury to your chest, Governor Connally?
Governor CONNALLY. The second one.
Mr. SPECTER. And what is your reason for that conclusion, sir?
Governor CONNALLY. Well, in my judgment, it just couldn't conceivably have been the first one because I heard the sound of the shot, In the first place, don't know anything about the velocity of this particular bullet, but any rifle has a velocity that exceeds the speed of sound, and when I heard the sound of that first shot, that bullet had already reached where I was, or it had reached that far, and after I heard that shot, I had the time to turn to my right, and start to turn to my left before I felt anything.
It is not conceivable to me that I could have been hit by the first bullet, and then I felt the blow from something which was obviously a bullet, which I assumed was a bullet, and I never heard the second shot, didn't hear it. I didn't hear but two shots. I think I heard the first shot and the third shot.


And even though Connally didn't hear it, numerous other people did. For instance, Nellie Connally, who WASN'T struck by a bullet, testified that she heard the shot that struck her husband.
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance, no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.
Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh, no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right, he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."




... yadda yadda, what is your evidence that a rifle shot fired from the TSBD Sniper's Nest could create the acoustic illusion within Dealey Plaza that caused 40-50% of witnesses to claim that they thought the shots came from the grassy knoll?

Well, let's ask the witnesses, shall we? Here's one:
Mr. BELIN - And were you able to form an opinion as to the source of the sound or what direction it came from, I mean?
Mr. BOWERS - The sounds came either from up against the School Depository Building or near the mouth of the triple underpass.
Mr. BALL - Were you able to tell which?
Mr. BOWERS - No; I could not.
Mr. BALL - Well, now, had you had any experience before being in the tower as to sounds coming from those various places?
Mr. BOWERS - Yes; I had worked this same tower for some 10 or 12 years, and was there during the time they were renovating the School Depository Building, and had noticed at that time the similarity of sounds occurring in either of those two locations.
Mr. BALL - Can you tell me now whether or not it came, the sounds you heard, the three shots came from the direction of the Depository Building or the triple underpass?
Mr. BOWERS - No; I could not.
Mr. BALL - From your experience there, previous experience there in hearing sounds that originated at the Texas School Book Depository Building, did you notice that sometimes those sounds seem to come from the triple underpass? Is that what you told me a moment ago?
Mr. BOWERS - There is a similarity of sound, because there is a reverberation which takes place from either location.
Mr. BALL - Had you heard sounds originating near the triple underpass before?
Mr. BOWERS - Yes; quite often. Because trucks backfire and various occurrences.


Bowers was there. You were not.

In addition, the HSCA studied this question, and arrived at a far lower figure for the percentage of grassy knoll witnesses. And we dealt with this just recently. All those grassy knoll witnesses thought ALL the shots came from the knoll. But you argued above that some of the shooters were behind JFK, so they all couldn't be on the knoll. So the witnesses you hold up to the light and ask "how could they be mistaken?", were mistaken according to your own arguments. Because according to you, some of the shooters were behind JFK but the witnesses you reference thought all the shots came from the knoll only. So they were wrong, right?

All this was pointed out to you in the past when you previously raised these very same issues.

But following the CT playbook, you simply pretend they have never been answered, wait a while, and then do a fringe reset and ask the same questions all over again.

Sorry, repetition doesn't make them more true.

Hank
 
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Notice how my rants include actual evidence that can not be ignored in a crime case, while everybody else is just whining and chanting old mantras like a weakened fictional antagonist?

Serious question: If it were ever proven that the official photographs and x-rays are incompatible with the existence of a small bullet hole resembling an entry wound near the external occipital protuberance, why should any rational person then not then logically conclude that they are faked?

The official autopsy report, partially based on notes made at the autopsy, says "2.5 centimeters to the right and slightly above the external occipital protuberance". A face sheet diagram, marked at the actual autopsy and stained in the President's blood, indicates a small wound roughly in the occipital area.

A serious load of autopsy participants have described a small wound at this location. Dr.'s Humes, Boswell, and Finck all throughly examined the body and detailed this. Then you have John Stringer, the photographer who was probably the fourth closest to the body. These golden four have all disagreed with the "four inches above the EOP" theory, denied the red spot on the back-of-head photographs was the wound they reported, and continued until their deaths insisting that this wound was near the EOP, near the base of the head, not on the top of the head. Then you have the small cast; Francis X. O'Neil examined the body himself and made statements and a drawings indicating a wound on the base of the head, in the "lower head" area. Then you have Charles Boyers, Roy Kellerman, and Richard Lipsey (Lipsey even called it a "upper neck" wound, but proceeded to clarify that he meant in the lower head area and marked face sheet diagram indicating a small wound near the EOP). I guess you could include the mortician Tom Robinson, who handled the body and told the HSCA he remembered seeing the doctors probing the base of the head (note that when reading his testimony or looking at his drawings of the large head wound, that the cranium had to have already been enlarged by the time he arrived at the autopsy). There are literally no humans present at the autopsy who were ever interviewed and agreed with any theory that the photographs or X-rays supported the theory that there was any entry wound high on the top of the head, and not low near the base of the head/EOP. There are virtually none alive by now to change their minds. That's history.


This is a hypothetical, of course. I think the official evidence could fit very well with a missile entrance near the EOP; nothing has to be faked. There are many serious indications that the panels of experts hired to re-evaluate the official JFK medical-legal evidence (totaling only about a dozen individual human forensic pathologists, and the occasional radiologist known to be experienced in X-rays) were ridden with a pressure to make the official evidence confirm the basic autopsy and official conclusion that the head wounds were caused by one bullet, entering from "above and behind". The Clark Panel and HSCA's cowlick entry was truly a unique pet theory in the hsitory of forensic evidence. Then you have about a dozen more forensic pathologists and some radiologists who have independently examined the official X-rays and either couldn't identify any particular entry wound or specifically denied the cowlick entry theory (for example, radiologist John Ebersole from the actual JFK autopsy was shown the official X-rays first by the Clark Panel and then the HSCA, where he was interviewed and did not agree with their "entry wound on the top of the head" theory).

NO. Your rants are simply rants, bereft of any evidence.
 
Lets start with a few questions.

If the single-assassin theory is true, why does the evidence indicates that the autopsy doctors lied about how late they discovered Kennedy's tracheotomy was made over a small bullet hole in the throat?

If the single-assassin theory is true, why would there seem to be so many autopsy photographs missing that would clear up a lot of mysteries?

If the single-assassin theory is true, what's your explanation for the dark air cavity between the right neck tissues on the x-ray that seem to lead from the upper neck to the lower throat?

Or the possible bullet fragment Cyril Wecht once reported seeing on the unpublished X-rays of Kennedy's upper neck area?

If the single-assassin theory is true, what is your explanation for the EOP wound?

Why would the HSCA feel the need to literally coerce Humes to lie under oath that he agreed with their "cowlick entry wound" theory?

If the single-assassin theory is true, why is there testimonial evidence with corroborating photographic evidence of a loud gunshot at around Zapruder Frame 190, while 223 is the earliest time you can say Connally is reacting to a bullet, with his popped lapel and all?

yadda yadda, why is there no strong witness evidence for a loud gunshot before Zapruder Frame 190, and yet Connally always said that the bullet that struck him came only a brief moment after he heard the first loud gunshot (note Connally reported not hearing the bullet that struck him at this time, leaving leeway for the idea of a silenced round)?

yadda yadda, what is your evidence that a rifle shot fired from the TSBD Sniper's Nest could create the acoustic illusion within Dealey Plaza that caused 40-50% of witnesses to claim that they thought the shots came from the grassy knoll?
Make your evidential case for something other than LHO. Go right ahead.

Yet you cannot.
 
Notice how my rants include actual evidence that can not be ignored in a crime case, while everybody else is just whining and chanting old mantras like a weakened fictional antagonist?

Wrong, you have presented speculation as evidence.

Serious question: If it were ever proven that the official photographs and x-rays are incompatible with the existence of a small bullet hole resembling an entry wound near the external occipital protuberance, why should any rational person then not then logically conclude that they are faked?

Serious-er question: How can anyone make a claim about a set of over 45 photographs which they have NEVER SEEN, and not be compatible with a fraud?

The official autopsy report, partially based on notes made at the autopsy, says "2.5 centimeters to the right and slightly above the external occipital protuberance". A face sheet diagram, marked at the actual autopsy and stained in the President's blood, indicates a small wound roughly in the occipital area.

How are these two things incompatible?

Plus, the autopsy report was not "partially based on notes made at the autopsy" - it was FULLY MADE USING NOTES FROM THE AUTOPSY. That's how it works.

A serious load of autopsy participants have described a small wound at this location. Dr.'s Humes, Boswell, and Finck all throughly examined the body and detailed this.

They detailed the LONE GSW TO THE BACK OF THE HEAD MADE BY A 6.5x52mm BULLET.

Then you have John Stringer, the photographer who was probably the fourth closest to the body.

Stringer's a layman.

These golden four have all disagreed with the "four inches above the EOP" theory, denied the red spot on the back-of-head photographs was the wound they reported, and continued until their deaths insisting that this wound was near the EOP,

Yo, Captain Strawman, NOBODY SAYS THE WOUND WAS 4 INCHES ABOVE THE EOP. 2.5cm is about 1 inch. You are saying that they wound was where the autopsy says it was.

If you understood anatomy you would have read that the location occipital protuberance varies from person to person. JFK's seems to be in line with the top of his ears. An in higher or an inch lower keeps the TSBD in play.



This is a hypothetical, of course. I think the official evidence could fit very well with a missile entrance near the EOP; nothing has to be faked.

That's what the autposy already says, which you'd know if you could read.

There are many serious indications that the panels of experts hired to re-evaluate the official JFK medical-legal evidence (totaling only about a dozen individual human forensic pathologists, and the occasional radiologist known to be experienced in X-rays) were ridden with a pressure to make the official evidence confirm the basic autopsy and official conclusion that the head wounds were caused by one bullet, entering from "above and behind".

Not at all. Only CT nutjobs say this because these guys spoiled the party.

You have yet to name the organization that could, in 1977, a decade after the assassination and three years after Watergate still have teeth to exert influence of the kind you imply.

You need to spell it out. I doubt you can.
 
Lets start with a few questions.

If the single-assassin theory is true, why does the evidence indicates that the autopsy doctors lied about how late they discovered Kennedy's tracheotomy was made over a small bullet hole in the throat?

It doesn't.
At best CTs have suggested there was some confusion over times. That does not suggest a lie.

If the single-assassin theory is true, why would there seem to be so many autopsy photographs missing that would clear up a lot of mysteries?

There aren't. They have not been released to the public, but you have never been able to show any are missing.

If the single-assassin theory is true, what's your explanation for the dark air cavity between the right neck tissues on the x-ray that seem to lead from the upper neck to the lower throat?

Me explanation? That the majority of pathologists don't identify such a thing, and that YOU have never been able to show me such a thing, so you are unqualified to state it exists.

You have things backward. You seem to think outlaying interpretations have to be discounted. They don't. You have to show they are better explanations of the evidence, to be given credence.

Or the possible bullet fragment Cyril Wecht once reported seeing on the unpublished X-rays of Kennedy's upper neck area?
That the majority of pathologists did not consider that possibility the best explanation?
Again, minority reports have to be shown to be the correct interpretations, not assumed to be.

If the single-assassin theory is true, what is your explanation for the EOP wound?

Really? The one you STILL CANT SHOW US? The one that is not supported by the x-ray or available photographs? The one that is not supported by ANYTHING other than your interpretation of the word "slightly"? The one you yourself has placed LOWER than the SINGLE contemporary quote suggests?

Easy: Statements made ten years after the fact, that are not supported by physical, objective, material, evidence, are not expected to be accurate.

Why would the HSCA feel the need to literally coerce Humes to lie under oath that he agreed with their "cowlick entry wound" theory?

Please tell me how you are aware of what a panel "felt". Please tell us how you know these statements were a lie, without precluding the possibility that his claim to have lied, was itself, a lie.

Please tell us why you rely on the testimony of witnesses you are suggesting lied, and fabricated an autopsy?

If the single-assassin theory is true, why is there testimonial evidence with corroborating photographic evidence of a loud gunshot at around Zapruder Frame 190, while 223 is the earliest time you can say Connally is reacting to a bullet, with his popped lapel and all?
Because witness testimony is unreliable, because Dealy Plaza is an echo chamber, and because I am utterly unimpressed by your ability to read body language or reactions within the film.

yadda yadda, why is there no strong witness evidence for a loud gunshot before Zapruder Frame 190, and yet Connally always said that the bullet that struck him came only a brief moment after he heard the first loud gunshot (note Connally reported not hearing the bullet that struck him at this time, leaving leeway for the idea of a silenced round)?

Because there was confusion. Because memory does not work how you think. Because people misidentify sounds. Because Connally himself was finally convinced of the single bullet theory when somebody talked him through the calculations and showed the projected yaw of the bullet, that he himself realised matched the shape of his scar.

yadda yadda, what is your evidence that a rifle shot fired from the TSBD Sniper's Nest could create the acoustic illusion within Dealey Plaza that caused 40-50% of witnesses to claim that they thought the shots came from the grassy knoll?

Because the echo chamber effect is only one factor that creates the confusion.
That said: This schoolboy level physics (I did sound experiments to learn how to recognise how echoes work in primary school, when I was about 10) has been shown to be correct by recreations.
More importantly, we would expect confusion anyway because people are just not as good at identifying the sources of sounds as you think.
We are even worse at remembering details like that.
We know how people ask the question of "where did you hear that sound from" or "would you say it became from in front, behind, maybe over there", will change the answer.
But, let's turn that around.
Why do you think 50-60% DO NOT say the shots came from the Grassy Knoll?

Asking to disqualify statistics is pointless when you don't understand what significance we should expect, or if you have unrealistic expectations of accuracy from individuals who are in a high stress situation, like witnessing somebody being shot, and realising they are in the firing line.

You are falling for exactly the same nonsense that is allowing the Las Vegas or Sandy Hook CTs to flourish.
 
Lets start with a few questions.

If the single-assassin theory is true, why does the evidence indicates that the autopsy doctors lied about how late they discovered Kennedy's tracheotomy was made over a small bullet hole in the throat?

If the single-assassin theory is true, why would there seem to be so many autopsy photographs missing that would clear up a lot of mysteries?

If the single-assassin theory is true, what's your explanation for the dark air cavity between the right neck tissues on the x-ray that seem to lead from the upper neck to the lower throat?

Or the possible bullet fragment Cyril Wecht once reported seeing on the unpublished X-rays of Kennedy's upper neck area?

If the single-assassin theory is true, what is your explanation for the EOP wound?

Why would the HSCA feel the need to literally coerce Humes to lie under oath that he agreed with their "cowlick entry wound" theory?

If the single-assassin theory is true, why is there testimonial evidence with corroborating photographic evidence of a loud gunshot at around Zapruder Frame 190, while 223 is the earliest time you can say Connally is reacting to a bullet, with his popped lapel and all?

yadda yadda, why is there no strong witness evidence for a loud gunshot before Zapruder Frame 190, and yet Connally always said that the bullet that struck him came only a brief moment after he heard the first loud gunshot (note Connally reported not hearing the bullet that struck him at this time, leaving leeway for the idea of a silenced round)?

yadda yadda, what is your evidence that a rifle shot fired from the TSBD Sniper's Nest could create the acoustic illusion within Dealey Plaza that caused 40-50% of witnesses to claim that they thought the shots came from the grassy knoll?

A post that has a lot of IFs that are all about wild speculation without the least bit of evidence.

Frame z190 has been shown to have no movement consistent with a gunshot, fail again. The first frame that indicates reaction to weapons is 223, JFK has been shot and JBC reacting to being shot between z223-224.

No evidence of a "silenced" shot only speculation and a vast majority of people heard three shots, indicated by the three shell casings in the TSB. Most of the credible witnesses heard the shots from the right of the vehicle, JBC reacted to the right, SS reacted to the back right. They all knew approximately where the shots came from.

You haven't answered any of Hank's question:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12059989&postcount=2426
 
Notice how my rants include actual evidence that can not be ignored in a crime case, while everybody else is just whining and chanting old mantras like a weakened fictional antagonist?

Serious question: If it were ever proven that the official photographs and x-rays are incompatible with the existence of a small bullet hole resembling an entry wound near the external occipital protuberance, why should any rational person then not then logically conclude that they are faked?

The official autopsy report, partially based on notes made at the autopsy, says "2.5 centimeters to the right and slightly above the external occipital protuberance". A face sheet diagram, marked at the actual autopsy and stained in the President's blood, indicates a small wound roughly in the occipital area.

A serious load of autopsy participants have described a small wound at this location. Dr.'s Humes, Boswell, and Finck all throughly examined the body and detailed this. Then you have John Stringer, the photographer who was probably the fourth closest to the body. These golden four have all disagreed with the "four inches above the EOP" theory, denied the red spot on the back-of-head photographs was the wound they reported, and continued until their deaths insisting that this wound was near the EOP, near the base of the head, not on the top of the head. Then you have the small cast; Francis X. O'Neil examined the body himself and made statements and a drawings indicating a wound on the base of the head, in the "lower head" area. Then you have Charles Boyers, Roy Kellerman, and Richard Lipsey (Lipsey even called it a "upper neck" wound, but proceeded to clarify that he meant in the lower head area and marked face sheet diagram indicating a small wound near the EOP). I guess you could include the mortician Tom Robinson, who handled the body and told the HSCA he remembered seeing the doctors probing the base of the head (note that when reading his testimony or looking at his drawings of the large head wound, that the cranium had to have already been enlarged by the time he arrived at the autopsy). There are literally no humans present at the autopsy who were ever interviewed and agreed with any theory that the photographs or X-rays supported the theory that there was any entry wound high on the top of the head, and not low near the base of the head/EOP. There are virtually none alive by now to change their minds. That's history.


This is a hypothetical, of course. I think the official evidence could fit very well with a missile entrance near the EOP; nothing has to be faked. There are many serious indications that the panels of experts hired to re-evaluate the official JFK medical-legal evidence (totaling only about a dozen individual human forensic pathologists, and the occasional radiologist known to be experienced in X-rays) were ridden with a pressure to make the official evidence confirm the basic autopsy and official conclusion that the head wounds were caused by one bullet, entering from "above and behind". The Clark Panel and HSCA's cowlick entry was truly a unique pet theory in the hsitory of forensic evidence. Then you have about a dozen more forensic pathologists and some radiologists who have independently examined the official X-rays and either couldn't identify any particular entry wound or specifically denied the cowlick entry theory (for example, radiologist John Ebersole from the actual JFK autopsy was shown the official X-rays first by the Clark Panel and then the HSCA, where he was interviewed and did not agree with their "entry wound on the top of the head" theory).


Something I forgot to add: Dr. George Burkley should be considered a EOP witness because he signed the autopsy face sheet diagram and was most likely the inspiration behind the passage in William Machester's book "...The last bullet has torn through John Kennedy’s cerebellum, the lower part of his brain".
 
Something I forgot to add: Dr. George Burkley should be considered a EOP witness because he signed the autopsy face sheet diagram and was most likely the inspiration behind the passage in William Machester's book "...The last bullet has torn through John Kennedy’s cerebellum, the lower part of his brain".

And William Manchester's conclusion was...
 
Something I forgot to add: Dr. George Burkley should be considered a EOP witness because he signed the autopsy face sheet diagram and was most likely the inspiration behind the passage in William Machester's book "...The last bullet has torn through John Kennedy’s cerebellum, the lower part of his brain".

So... the diagram that is not to scale, was not the face sheet, shows the bullet hole level to the top of the ears, and was only used as an aide to memory, not a basis of diagnosis, was the inspiration behind a passage about the brain not shown in the diagram?

And on this basis, and not sworn testimony relating, in context, you decide that he is a witness who agrees with your theory?

Can it even be considered hearsay, if a drawing inspires something not shown in the drawing?
 
Something I forgot to add: Dr. George Burkley should be considered a EOP witness because he signed the autopsy face sheet diagram and was most likely the inspiration behind the passage in William Machester's book "...The last bullet has torn through John Kennedy’s cerebellum, the lower part of his brain".

As John McAdams would say, sashay.

You ignored all the rebuttal points and added another piece of conjecture.

That's all the above is. You don't have anything but a reference in a book by a layman, and your speculation that his source was somehow Dr. Burkley, himself NOT a pathologist, as one of the original autopsists (Dr. Humes, whom you have quoted often, usually out of context and with your own spin added) took pains to point out.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/humesa.htm
Q. One of the problems that exists in the record is statements from other people who were participating in the autopsy who said that others were in charge or others were giving orders. So I'd like to find out what your response would be to the quotations that I'm going to show you--
A. Go right ahead.
Q. The first one I'd like to make reference to is in Exhibit 26, and I can show you this, if you wish. This is in the report from the House Select Committee on Assassinations, dated August 17, 1977, by Andy Purdy, where he conducted an interview with Dr. Boswell. And I'm now going to quote from Mr. Purdy's words: "He"--and that's referring to Dr. Boswell--"indicated that Dr. Burkley was basically supervising everything that went on in the autopsy room and that the commanding officer was also responding to Burkley's wishes." That's on page 2 of--
A. Well, I think that's a misinterpretation by J [J. Thornton Boswell, another of the original autopsists] of what was going on. You see, Mrs. Kennedy and the Attorney General were upstairs in the hospital. She had stated she wasn't going to leave there until she could accompany the President's body to the White House. And Admiral Burkley was anxious that that period be shortened to as much-- you know, as much as possible. And he did from time to time suggest--but as far as telling me what to do or how to do it, absolutely, irrevocably no. He's not a pathologist, to start with. He wouldn't presume to do such a thing. You'll have to talk to J about this.
George Burkley, his main concern was let's get it over with as fast as we could, and we had big problems, and we couldn't get it over with as fast as he would have liked it to have been completed. That's my reaction to that.


You bring up new bovine excrement as a means to ignore the posts pointing out the prior bovine excrement you brought up.

How is that not disingenuous?

Hank
 
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