Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

[Emily's Cat]

Now that I'm familiar with the rhetorical tactics, it's been fascinating to watch. An unstated refusal to discuss, condemn or even acknowledge the presence of actual Nazis at this rally, while harping on antifa and demanding all of the above until it dominates the conversation.

Use some logic.

Several times now, it has been made absolutely clear that everyone posting in this thread AGREES that nazis are very, very ,very bad. There is no discussion there - we are all in agreement.

Where we disagree is in whether or not antifa is bad.

Why would we spend pages and pages discussing how much we all agree about something and ignore the part where we disagree? What would be the point of that?

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Why would we spend pages and pages discussing how much we all agree about something and ignore the part where we disagree? What would be the point of that?

Perspective.

 

[phiwum]

Perspective.

Great. I'll start.

Nazis are bad.

Now, you continue and we'll do this for long enough that the perspective is clear and then perhaps we can turn to disagreements rather than public declarations of the obvious. Should be scintillating reading, no doubt.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Great. I'll start.

Nazis are bad.

Now, you continue and we'll do this for long enough that the perspective is clear and then perhaps we can turn to disagreements rather than public declarations of the obvious. Should be scintillating reading, no doubt.

Ah, what the hell, I'm game. Beats sniping at each other till page 100.

Nazis are worse than anti-Nazis.

 

[Meadmaker]

Given that he had his makeshift flamethrower out BEFORE the asshat nazi pointed a gun at him, I'd say quite a bit.

I suspected that might be it. Corey Long had to use his power of precognition to know that someone was going to point a gun at him very shortly. The impending gun pointing made him so mad that he decided to start shooting flames from a spray paint can.


(When I first watched the video, I didn't notice it, but I saw that he actually is seen shooting unignited spray paint directly in the KKK dude's face as KKK dude walked down the stairs. He was far enough away that Mr. Wizard would not have been marked, but he would have walked through a fine aerosol cloud.)

 

[Meadmaker]

Great. I'll start.

Nazis are bad.

Now, you continue and we'll do this for long enough that the perspective is clear and then perhaps we can turn to disagreements rather than public declarations of the obvious. Should be scintillating reading, no doubt.

Ah, what the hell, I'm game. Beats sniping at each other till page 100.

Nazis are worse than anti-Nazis.

I'm in. Nazis are bad. Being an anti-Nazi is good. In fact, it is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for being good.


BUT.....here's where it gets tricky.....

Violence against Nazis is _________.

My own answer would be to beg insufficient data, because we need to know the circumstances of the violence.

 

[Meadmaker]

Yes. Neo-Nazis follow a violent ideology - you *don't* get that many advocates of genocide who are committed to nonviolence.

As a result, whilst it might be mildly regrettable if some neo-Nazis get attacked when they are otherwise being peaceful (especially if it provides a narrative that the Nazis are somehow victims), I can't shed very many tears over it.

Neither can I. I don't sit around saying, "Ooohhh. Those poor Nazis. One of them got bonked on the head with a club and it was so unfair."

However, when you bonk one of them on the head with a club, suddenly all his friends get mad, and they have clubs of their own, and before you know it ambulances are showing up and Nazis and anti-Nazis and bystanders are getting dragged away, and it's just a big mess.

 

[Elagabalus]

Use some logic.

Several times now, it has been made absolutely clear that everyone posting in this thread AGREES that nazis are very, very ,very bad. There is no discussion there - we are all in agreement.

Where we disagree is in whether or not antifa is bad.

Why would we spend pages and pages discussing how much we all agree about something and ignore the part where we disagree? What would be the point of that?

Depends on what do you mean by Antifa. Lately this forum has been rocking an unstated but implied "all forms of 'anti' protest are in realty antifa and therefore bad" vibe.

 

[The Don]

Violence against Nazis is _________.
.

Regrettably sometimes necessary...

 

[Emily's Cat]

Depends on what do you mean by Antifa. Lately this forum has been rocking an unstated but implied "all forms of 'anti' protest are in realty antifa and therefore bad" vibe.

No more so than it's been rocking a sometimes clearly stated as well as implied "all forms of not-hating-Trump are nazis" vibe.

The othering and tribalism is pretty strong these days, sad to say.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Regrettably sometimes necessary...

Please expand. Under what circumstances is it necessary?

 

[sphenisc]

Please expand. Under what circumstances is it necessary?

When they invade Poland?

 

[jimbob]

Please expand. Under what circumstances is it necessary?

If they are marching and deviate from their allowed route and haven't been arrested for it - they are not going to have benign intentions.

ETA: If they are armed, and start marching past a synagogue, then they really are deserving of violence.

In general, I have a lower threshold for when it's acceptable to be violent against groups of advocates of genocide than against other people.

 

[Meadmaker]

When they invade Poland?

 

[NoahFence]

Violence against Nazis is _________.

Understandable.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Violence against Nazis is _________.

Well that was a short game. Good playing with you folks.

 

[jimbob]

Neither can I. I don't sit around saying, "Ooohhh. Those poor Nazis. One of them got bonked on the head with a club and it was so unfair."
However, when you bonk one of them on the head with a club, suddenly all his friends get mad, and they have clubs of their own, and before you know it ambulances are showing up and Nazis and anti-Nazis and bystanders are getting dragged away, and it's just a big mess.

Did you see the Vice documentary with the crying Nazi? They went there looking for a fight.

Did you read what the church groups said about how their nonviolent attempts to block the Nazi path were met with violence? If the Nazis were being law abiding hateful bigots, they should have complained to the police, and waited for the police to clear their route. But they didn't.

The only provocation needed was to not be a Nazi.

 

[Scopedog]

Depends on what do you mean by Antifa. Lately this forum has been rocking an unstated but implied "all forms of 'anti' protest are in realty antifa and therefore bad" vibe.

Could you please provide some example posts? Perhaps my own biases have led me to miscontrue other poster's meanings.

Antifa: a person who self-identifies as Antifa and wears Antifa colors and carries or surrounds themselves with carriers of Antifa banners and flags and who espouses anarcho-communism. Some Antifa engage in political violence. Antifa are totally distinct from people who simply oppose fascism.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Did you see the Vice documentary with the crying Nazi? They went there looking for a fight.

I saw the Vice documentary, or at least most of it.. When did he say they went looking for a fight?

 

[jimbob]

I saw the Vice documentary, or at least most of it.. When did he say they went looking for a fight?

About three minutes in, he talks about making himself more capable of violence.

Later on he considers that "resisting" is sufficient reason to attack someone.