Brexit: Now What? Part III

[ceptimus]

Freedom of movement of people has been a goal of the European Community since its inception.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_for_workers_in_the_European_Union:

Yes, that has been expanded, but at the time of the UK's accession to the EEC in 1973 and at the time of the previous referendum in 1975, you knew that would happen.

We know Ted Heath signed up to 'Ever closer union' - it's the reason some of us were against it from the start. But at the time we joined the EEC, free movement wasn't a legal requirement, many of the countries that are now part of the EU weren't members, and we didn't know just how fast and how far the EU would make member nations subservient to its own bureaucratic rule.

Anyway now we do know, so at the first chance we got, we wisely voted to leave before it gets even worse.

 

[ceptimus]

Not just. But mostly. Mostly this. Mostly wanting to keep foreigners out.

And not having to listen to them too. Or give them any money.

Foreigners bad.

Yes. What exactly is your problem with this?

It's the reason why parties such as the SNP exist.

 

[GnaGnaMan]

Freedom of movement of people has been a goal of the European Community since its inception.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_for_workers_in_the_European_Union:

Yes, that has been expanded, but at the time of the UK's accession to the EEC in 1973 and at the time of the previous referendum in 1975, you knew that would happen.

Not just a goal. Freedom of movement has existed since the very beginning. It is exactly what the UK signed up for.

Here laid down in the treaty of Rome, 1957:

1. The free movement of workers shall be ensured within the Community not later than at the date of the expiry of the transitional period.
2. This shall involve the abolition of any discrimination based on nationality between workers of the Member States, as regards employment, remuneration and other working conditions.
3. It shall include the right, subject to limitations justified by reasons of public order, public safety and public health:
(a) to accept offers of employment actually made;
(b) to move about freely for this purpose within the territory of Member States;
(c) to stay in any Member State in order to carry on an employment in conformity with the legislative and administrative provisions governing the employment of the workers of that State; and
(d) to live, on conditions which shall be the subject of implementing regulations to be laid down by the Commission, in the territory of a Member State after having been employed there.

https://www.cvce.eu/obj/treaty_esta...-en-cca6ba28-0bf3-4ce6-8a76-6b0b3252696e.html

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Yes. What exactly is your problem with this?

It's pathetically insular, ignorant, small minded and reflective of the generally backwards mindset prevalent in the Brexiteer/Little Englander.

 

[ceptimus]

It's pathetically insular, ignorant, small minded and reflective of the generally backwards mindset prevalent in the Brexiteer/Little Englander.

I suppose you think the same about nationalist parties like the SNP - but in their specific case it's Little Scotlanders.

 

[ceptimus]

1. The free movement of workers shall be ensured within the Community not later than at the date of the expiry of the transitional period.

FTFY

 

[GlennB]

Meanwhile Davis has sown more than a little confusion over reciprocal health care with this:

"That we should at least protect existing healthcare rights and arrangements for EU27 citizens in the UK and UK nationals in the EU. The EHIC [European health insurance card] arrangements.
That is good news for example, for British pensioners in the EU: it means that they will continue to have their health care arrangements protected both where they live and – when they travel to another member state – to be able to use an EHIC card."

EHIC is for emergency treatment of people staying temporarily. If you need routine treatment or relocate entirely (which is probably the case for the pensioners he mentions) you'll either need health insurance or register for full reciprocal care under the S1 system.

I suspect he has no idea how this works.

 

[Vixen]

Meanwhile Davis has sown more than a little confusion over reciprocal health care with this:

"That we should at least protect existing healthcare rights and arrangements for EU27 citizens in the UK and UK nationals in the EU. The EHIC [European health insurance card] arrangements.
That is good news for example, for British pensioners in the EU: it means that they will continue to have their health care arrangements protected both where they live and – when they travel to another member state – to be able to use an EHIC card."

EHIC is for emergency treatment of people staying temporarily. If you need routine treatment or relocate entirely (which is probably the case for the pensioners he mentions) you'll either need health insurance or register for full reciprocal care under the S1 system.

I suspect he has no idea how this works.

That was the old system in place before, anyway. You still need to apply for SI if you are an ex-pat living in the EU if you want to get your usual British healthcare concessions for free prescriptions, if a pensioner, say.

For example, in Finland you pay a small fee every time you visit a doctor or go to a hospital. An SI form gives you an exemption from this, but you have to apply to DWP and it is a detailed form.

But yeah, it'll be interesting to see how all this pans out. If they can't use ours, we b'ain't gonna be able to use theirs. All the aging ex-pats in Spain will be walloped with health care bills.

 

[The Don]

I suppose you think the same about nationalist parties like the SNP - but in their specific case it's Little Scotlanders.

Well apart from the fact that the SNP is advocating an independent Scotland with the free movement of people.

 

[abaddon]

Well apart from the fact that the SNP is advocating an independent Scotland with the free movement of people.

That whole issue seems to have gone off the boil, lately.

The Scottish may be simply waiting to see how bad a deal Davis et al end up with. It might be too late by then. No matter how you carve it up, Scotland will get the poopy end of the Brexit stick. As will Wales. And NI.

 

[The Don]

That whole issue seems to have gone off the boil, lately.

The Scottish may be simply waiting to see how bad a deal Davis et al end up with. It might be too late by then. No matter how you carve it up, Scotland will get the poopy end of the Brexit stick. As will Wales. And NI.

The Welsh electorate chose Leave so at least we "deserve" what we get unlike the NI and Scottish electorates

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I suppose you think the same about nationalist parties like the SNP - but in their specific case it's Little Scotlanders.

Except they specifically don't advocate for tougher restrictions on foreigners to keep them out. Quite the opposite in fact.

Not that facts will get in the way of your prejudices.

 

[abaddon]

The Welsh electorate chose Leave so at least we "deserve" what we get unlike the NI and Scottish electorates

I don't think the Welsh "deserve" it. I think the Welsh were intentionally mislead.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

The Welsh electorate chose Leave so at least we "deserve" what we get unlike the NI and Scottish electorates

Don't think I agree with everything in this but it's an interesting take on the Brexiteer psychology

http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...to-be-just-another-member-of-a-team-1-4851882

 

[Giz]

I'm stunned that the majority of the population of the UK seem to failed to grasp that the free movement of people, finances and services is not a pick and mix affair. The choice is all three or none.

How can people not understand that?

Quite frankly, how *********** stupid does an individual have to be not to get that?

Perhaps they're trying to follow the EU's example and keep asking the same question until the desired answer is given? (i.e. Ireland, Denmark)

 

[Blue Mountain]

We know that - it was the main reason the referendum was ever held in the first place - and it's the reason we voted to leave.

Is it ?

We were assured at various times by various people in the Leave campaign that it wasn't all about immigration and instead it was all about opening huge vistas of economic opportunity post-Brexit.

My point is that the "Free movement of people" was gradually slid in, by the EU, without our acceptance, long after we voted to join the "Common Market" which was all about free movement of goods (and services) but NOT people.

....and anyone with a cursory understanding would have realised that they are inextricably linked.

I'm not so sure. Canada and the US have a free trade agreement in place and it looks like money flows pretty freely in both directions. But people, not so much. Canadians can't travel to the US without a passport. Canada and the US can refuse entry to people they don't like. Moving for a job requires paperwork and as far as I know work permits. So we have relatively free movement of goods and capital, but not people.

 

[Craig B]

Yes. What exactly is your problem with this?

It's the reason why parties such as the SNP exist.

The SNP exists to keep foreigners out, and to separate Scotland from Europe? Are you quite sure?

 

[Vixen]

The SNP exists to keep foreigners out, and to separate Scotland from Europe? Are you quite sure?

Perhaps he's talking about Sassenachs.

 

[Agatha]

Please remain civil, and refrain from name-calling.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Agatha

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Perhaps he's talking about Sassenachs.

The SNP are happy for free movement to continue between Scotland and England so no not that either. Sounds a lot like the usual Brexiteer arse waffle. The usual plan is to put together words that sound nice to them and pander to their petty prejudices without any consideration to whether they are factual or not.