Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories V: Five for Fighting

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As it's a tough thing to replicate (nobody is exactly stepping forward to volunteer to be shot in the head), the explanations on the table will have to suffice. First off, consider that there are TWO reversals of motion in the Zapruder film, but the second is seen as unremarkable and not considered evidence of conspiracy - as that reversal happens when JFK rebounds off the back of the limo seat. The physics of that reversal is well known and readily accepted.

And secondly, although the refrain has always been "Back and to the Left", there's no evidence the body of JFK moves to the left at all. It appears that JFK, upon rebounding off the back seat, winds up no closer to Jackie than he was at the time of the head shot. So where's the evidence of movement to the left? It appears from here to be an illusion caused by JFK's leaning leftward toward JFK at the time of the headshot. JFK's leftward movement has always been *assumed*, not established.

So this backward motion has been explained in a number of ways:

1. As pointed out above by Sandy McCroskey, the head actually moves forward noticeably for one frame at the time of the impact of the bullet. This movement was discovered by Nobel Prize winning physicist Richard Feynman and discussed at length in David Lifton's book, BEST EVIDENCE.

2. The backward movement which starts only after the bullet has exited the head (and therefore cannot be due to the impact of the bullet, as the momentum would be transferred instantaneously) can be due to a neuromuscular reaction, as pointed out above by BKnight. This was tested by experiment using live goats and demonstrated in films shown to the Warren Commission.

3. The estimated mass carried forward by the cavitation of the head (times the speed pf the mass) is greater than the mass of the bullet (times the speed of the bullet) that struck the head. The physics of this exchange says, as I understand it, that the head should therefore move backward to maintain the stability of the system. This was determined by Nobel Prize winning physicist Luis Alvarez. This has been called "the Jet Effect".

4. The head can only go so far forward before it will reverse its motion. It appears JFK's chin is compressed pretty much as far as it can go into the chest by Zapruder frame 313. Like the physics of a basketball hitting a backboard and reversing its flight direction, JFK's head can be considered to be rebounding off the chest of JFK by Z-frame 313.

5. The rigid back brace held JFK upright, but prevented his body from moving forward too far. Once it reached the limits, it rebounded the body backward. This was mentioned by Tomtomkent above.

6. A bullet from somewhere to the front (not the knoll) caused the head to move backward. Let's examine this in detail:
(a) There's no evidence of a shooter in front of JFK, as there were a dozen men on the overpass directly in front of JFK at the time of the shooting, and none of them saw a shooter anywhere on the overpass.
(b) Further, there's no evidence of a shot striking JFK in the head from anywhere except from behind (as determined at the autopsy) and this finding was confirmed by neutral expert forensic pathologists who examined the extant autopsy materials in 1978 at the behest of the HSCA.
(c) There is also no damage evident to the skull from a shot at Z314, and no ejecta from a shot from the front.
(d) And all the fragments found anywhere that were large enough to be ballistically traceable where traceable to Oswald's weapon, so there's no evidence of a bullet fired from another weapon.
(e) The movement is too large to be caused by a bullet. It's not even close to the appropriate magnitude.

So it's my opinion this suggested explanation of a shooter striking JFK in the head from anywhere but the sixth floor southeast corner window of the Depository can be eliminated, as a shooter elsewhere in the plaza is the only one that has ZERO evidence in support, and no experts claiming this is what would happen. So I eliminate this explanation from consideration.

What explanations do you eliminate (if any) and why? Please be expansive in your response.

Thanks in advance.

Hank


Good explanation and answer to my question. Re your hilited request, sorry I'm just not that interested. I do appreciate your (and others) taking the time for my question.
 
What I didn't get about the logic of the movie:
If the conspiracy can silence David Ferrie, by somehow giving him a brain aneurism, (and there is no known viable method of inducing an aneurism that appears natural and leaves no other trace) why waste it on a schlub nobody would believe, who is only suspected because he was in the civil air patrol at a different time to LHO, (and a photograph of him with a bunch of kids, one of whom somebody mistook for LHO)?

Why not use the Amazing-Natural-Causes-O-Matic-Ray on JFK, instead of a spate of shootings that leaves not only JFK, but Tippit and LHO dead?


[ct]Ferrie didn't actually die of an aneurysm; he was poisoned, but the local medical examiner was bribed and/or coerced to report that Ferrie's death was from natural causes. This wouldn't have worked with JFK; he was too high-profile, and there would have been too many important witnesses to his autopsy.[/ct]
 
[ct]Ferrie didn't actually die of an aneurysm; he was poisoned, but the local medical examiner was bribed and/or coerced to report that Ferrie's death was from natural causes. This wouldn't have worked with JFK; he was too high-profile, and there would have been too many important witnesses to his autopsy.[/ct]

[ct]Though the same objection doesn't apply to the fact that all these important witnesses to the autopsy were for some reason unable to count as high as two.[/ct]

Dave
 
The wound near the external occipital protuberance in the back of Kennedy's head, presumably of entrance, is more than enough evidence of conspiracy. At the moment, it seems like the existent photographs and X-rays on Kennedy's body are ambiguous to showing any kind of entrance wound at all, but the strong statements of the autopsy doctors and the six other autopsy witnesses are strong enough evidence because they corroborate each other appropriately.
 
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The wound near the external occipital protuberance in the back of Kennedy's head, presumably of entrance, is more than enough evidence of conspiracy. At the moment, it seems like the existent photographs and X-rays on Kennedy's body are ambiguous to showing any kind of entrance wound at all, but the strong statements of the autopsy doctors and the six other autopsy witnesses are strong enough evidence because they corroborate each other appropriately.

Put down the mashed peas and answer the questions asked.
 
The wound near the external occipital protuberance in the back of Kennedy's head, presumably of entrance, is more than enough evidence of conspiracy. At the moment, it seems like the existent photographs and X-rays on Kennedy's body are ambiguous to showing any kind of entrance wound at all, but the strong statements of the autopsy doctors and the six other autopsy witnesses are strong enough evidence because they corroborate each other appropriately.

Why are you ignoring this question?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1388

Cite, and you still haven't answered my earlier question:

What's backspatter in relation to the JFK GSW?
 
In that case, why are you posting in this thread?


I dont want no trouble Marshall, I'm just passin through town. I'll be on my way presently sir.

Like I said:


So anyway, I always wondered (didnt read up on it) what was the explanation for 'back and to the left' ?


As mentioned here, the 'hollywood' version was a factor, so I thought I'd come here and ask. Thank you kindly.

edit: meaning the hollywood hype was a factor
 
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The wound near the external occipital protuberance in the back of Kennedy's head, presumably of entrance,

All of the evidence shown by the autopsy directly contradicts you presumption, it was an entrance wound.

is more than enough evidence of conspiracy.

You have shown no evidence of a conspiracy, why do you continue to post your fantasies? Continued re-posting does not make it true.
At the moment, it seems like the existent photographs and X-rays on Kennedy's body are ambiguous to showing any kind of entrance wound at all, but the strong statements of the autopsy doctors and the six other autopsy witnesses are strong enough evidence because they corroborate each other appropriately.

As many others have posted you haven't looked at all the x-rays and photographs. The strong statements are of an entrance wound (not plural)
from the back, right and higher.
 
The entrance wound in the back of the head was low enough to remove the brain without disturbing said entrance wound in the skull. That is what Dr. Finck always said, starting with his Warren Commission testimony, then further clarified in his Bloomberg report, then consistently on and on until he died.
 
Backspatter is the blood and tissue that spurts out of a point of entry for a projectile.

You are the one that used the term. A generic description of backspatter doesn't explain why you used that term and what you believe the term means in the context of JFK's GSW to the head.

What does the backspatter as observed in the Z film tell us?
 
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The entrance wound in the back of the head was low enough to remove the brain without disturbing said entrance wound in the skull. That is what Dr. Finck always said, starting with his Warren Commission testimony, then further clarified in his Bloomberg report, then consistently on and on until he died.

How many of Oswald's shots hit Kennedy?
 
The entrance wound in the back of the head was low enough to remove the brain without disturbing said entrance wound in the skull. That is what Dr. Finck always said, starting with his Warren Commission testimony, then further clarified in his Bloomberg report, then consistently on and on until he died.

And? You have yet to show this is inconsistent with the WC, given descriptions of how the brain was removed.
 
The entrance wound in the back of the head was low enough to remove the brain without disturbing said entrance wound in the skull. That is what Dr. Finck always said, starting with his Warren Commission testimony, then further clarified in his Bloomberg report, then consistently on and on until he died.

The entrance wound has nothing to do with the ease of removing the brain. The exit wound and the massive fracturing of the skull have everything to do with the ease of the brain removal.
You appear to be unable to use any reasoning powers when discussing the autopsy.
 
The entrance wound has nothing to do with the ease of removing the brain. The exit wound and the massive fracturing of the skull have everything to do with the ease of the brain removal.
You appear to be unable to use any reasoning powers when discussing the autopsy.

The "cowlick" part of the skull was right beside the large defect (which you call the exit wound, although the autopsy doctors always stated that external beveling could only be observed on skull fragments that were previously blasted out in Dealey Plaza). So any entrance wound in the "cowlick" part of the skull would be among the portions of the skull removed to facilitate the removal of the brain.

Dr. Finck arrived at the autopsy after the brain had already been removed, and he always said that he could examine (and witness the photographing of) the small hole in the skull indicating an entrance. For many reasons, the entire top of the skull, including the "cowlick" part, is removed during an autopsy to facilitate removal of the brain.
 
And? You have yet to show this is inconsistent with the WC, given descriptions of how the brain was removed.

The Warren Commission endorsed the EOP location for the entrance wound in the back of the head. The "cowlick" location for the entrance wound in the back of the head was developed by the Clark panel and the HSCA. The wide difference between the two locations was clearly addressed for the first time in Dr. Finck's 1969 testimony at the trial of Clay Shaw, in which he went on the record disagreeing with the Clark panel's upper "cowlick" placement of the entrance wound.
 
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The Warren Commission endorsed the EOP location for the entrance wound in the back of the head. The "cowlick" location for the entrance wound in the back of the head was developed by the Clark panel and the HSCA. The wide difference between the two locations was clearly addressed for the first time in Dr. Finck's testimony at the trial of Clay Shaw, in which he went on the record disagreeing with the Clark panel's upper "cowlick" placement of the entrance wound.

Either you are unfamiliar with the WC, or your definition of "EOP" is a movable feast.

Quite aside from figure 29, the body of the WC makes it quite clear the autopsy is accurate. Mr Finck's later rememberances are less reliable than contemporary records, because they are just that, rememberances.
 
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