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Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

Like "****[pejorative term for intercourse] you ****** [pejorative term for African-Americans]" or "Jews will not replace us" or ""Go the **** [pejorative term for intercourse] back to Africa, ****** [pejorative term for African-Americans]"?

Arguably, the first and third would be fighting words. "Jews will not replace us" doesn't sound quite like fighting words to me, but perhaps I'm insenesitive.

The KKK and neo-Nazis have perpetrated more terrorist attacks in the US than ISIS.

If being a member of either group violates the "providing material support for terrorism" clause of the Patriot act, that's news to me. I see your point, but I don't know whether a court has ruled thus.

Nazi speech always incites violence. That's their goal.

Nazi speech does not always incite violence in the legal sense.

I disagree. There's a line to be drawn. The line already exists - free speech isn't absolute - so it's just a matter of drawing it before we get to Nazis. Shouldn't be difficult.

Clearly, I have never said that free speech is absolute, since we've been discussing limits such as incitement. And just as clearly, so far no court has said that speeches by neo Nazis always violate the First Amendment, or else we wouldn't have this discussion.
 
There is a thread about that in Religion/Philosophy.

In short: I have no arms is disproved by looking and observing that I have arms.

Nonsense. The claim that there is no alt-left is a response to your silly claim that there is one. To "prove" no alt-left by observation would require omniscience. You fail at logic, you are dismissed.

Now, please, define what alt-left is and give evidence for it.
 
The alt-right is defined by themselves. They named themselves the "alt-right".

You are claiming that there is a similar organisation on the left. Prove it.

It stops here.
The hard right is right now a bigger threat domestically to these USA than anything else.
From that doesn't follow that there are no other threats.
As an invalid deduction, here is your claim:
Premise 1: There is an alt-right threat.
Premise 2: Another threat has to be alt-X to be a threat.
Therefore there is no other threat, because there isn't and it doesn't self-identify as alt-X.

This is how critical thinking works.
Turn your claim into a deduction and check for in part its validity.
Just because there is a threat named alt-right, it doesn't follow that there is no other.
Be a skeptic and use critical thinking and learn to turn your claims into a deduction to check its validity.
 
Nonsense. The claim that there is no alt-left is a response to your silly claim that there is one. To "prove" no alt-left by observation would require omniscience. You fail at logic, you are dismissed.

Now, please, define what alt-left is and give evidence for it.

There is deduction, induction, abduction and nomological in part within logic.

You don't need omniscience, you need a combination of the above and empiricism and history.
 
There are extremists on the left.

We can discuss scale of threat, absolutely. We can comfort ourselves with "no true Scotsman" or we can address it.

Our ideology is not singularly immune to the same problems that other viewpoints have.

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There are extremists on the left.

We can discuss scale of threat, absolutely. We can comfort ourselves with "no true Scotsman" or we can address it.

Our ideology is not singularly immune to the same problems that other viewpoints have.

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Yes, as a left-leaning moderate or in historical terms social-liberal/social democrat I am not blind to the hard left. But in fighting the hard right I will not enable the hard left. I fight from the center.
 
It stops here.
The hard right is right now a bigger threat domestically to these USA than anything else.
From that doesn't follow that there are no other threats.
*snipped irrelevancy*

And I never said otherwise. I said there was no "alt-left".
 
My God "BUT ALL SIDES HAVE EXTREMISTS! ALL STRONG OPINIONS ARE EQUALLY BAD!" really has just become a fetish hasn't it?

At least the mayor in Jaws just thought the shark didn't exist, he didn't argue the shark had a valid point of view we had to consider.
 
My God "BUT ALL SIDES HAVE EXTREMISTS! ALL STRONG OPINIONS ARE EQUALLY BAD!" really has just become a fetish hasn't it?

At least the mayor in Jaws just thought the shark didn't exist, he didn't argue the shark had a valid point of view we had to consider.

It's an easy out to avoid having to owe up to the fact that Nazis are killing people in US streets in 2017, and that the US president is spewing apologetics for the very same Nazis. Owing up to that might actually place a moral responsibility on someone to do something about it, and that's far too much effort.
 
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And I never said otherwise. I said there was no "alt-left".

A rose is a rose by any name given.
You are claiming that there is no functional group of humans on the left, who are not like the alt-right(take away rights and destroy the liberal democracy of these USA), based on the fact that they don't self-identify as alt-left.
You are nitpicking words. :)
 
A rose is a rose by any name given.
You are claiming that there is no functional group of humans on the left, who are not like the alt-right(take away rights and destroy the liberal democracy of these USA), based on the fact that they don't self-identify as alt-left.
You are nitpicking words. :)

I'm saying that there is no alt-left. Stop trying to re-interpret my words and just read what I'm saying.

If you want to argue that there have been leftitst terror organisations in the past, and that there are leftists now that are anti-democracy, I won't argue. Mainly because that's completely off-topic in this thread. This thread, again, is about the fact that Nazis are killing people on US streets, and the President is a fan of them.
 
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My God "BUT ALL SIDES HAVE EXTREMISTS! ALL STRONG OPINIONS ARE EQUALLY BAD!" really has just become a fetish hasn't it?

At least the mayor in Jaws just thought the shark didn't exist, he didn't argue the shark had a valid point of view we had to consider.

But all sides do have extremists.
 
My God "BUT ALL SIDES HAVE EXTREMISTS! ALL STRONG OPINIONS ARE EQUALLY BAD!" really has just become a fetish hasn't it?

At least the mayor in Jaws just thought the shark didn't exist, he didn't argue the shark had a valid point of view we had to consider.

Hi :)

The hard right is worse right now. Feel better, so yes they are not equal. But less worse is not better than the hard right, it is less worse.

I don't think that the hard right nor hard left has reasoned arguments, but I will defend their right to have free speech and demonstrate in a peaceful manner.
 
A rose is a rose by any name given.
You are claiming that there is no functional group of humans on the left, who are not like the alt-right(take away rights and destroy the liberal democracy of these USA), based on the fact that they don't self-identify as alt-left.
You are nitpicking words. :)

There isn't a functional group on the left that are like the alt right. There isn't alternative leftism that I know. Extreme leftism seems to follow the traditional paradigm.
 
Yes, that sounds true. What is your point?

On what basis does that sound true to you?

Expressing political views does not entail the use of violence in any situation I can imagine. Some views may encourage or even incite violence (in the latter case, it is not protected speech), but I can't think of any situation in which expressing one's views literally entails violence.

I can, it would a political view which requires itself, by its own internal logic, to be expressed through violent intimidation.

I have this impression that you are acquainted with logical expressions. Otherwise, I would not harp on the use of "entails". If you meant it much, much more liberally than its usual meaning, please let me know.

I meant "entails" indeed.

"I support A."
A => B
Therefor, "I support B."

Although perhaps the "entails" should indeed be interpreted slightly liberally, in the sense that if you could find a single nazi march out of all the ones which occur where they weren't violent in or in the margin of, then the "entails" would fail even if it could still be true in 99.999% of cases or something. So consider the above argument (with the "entails") as an approximation of a statistical argument.

[1] As far as I know, although there were verbal confrontations Friday night, there was no physical violence. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

I've seen at least one video where they were beating people with those torches. But even if they didn't then your conclusion wouldn't follow, since it's not always during the march itself that they are violent (many times they manage to hold themselves in in front of the cameras and cops) but afterwards.

Take the homeless guy that they beat to death around here lately. This didn't occur during their march but later that night. Four members of "Nation" (a Belgian neo-nazi group) went out in the city together after the march, and somewhere came across some homeless guy and decided to beat him to death.

And before you argue "but they could've done that anywhere at any time, march or no march" then yes, they could but they don't (tend to). The nazi marches for "expressing their free speech" only exists in your head, in their heads they're coming out in force performing an intimidation ritual whereby they are asserting their "dominance over the streets". When unopposed[*] it merely serves to affirm their belief that they "own" the streets and emboldens them in going further with violent activities than otherwise. Hence the higher-than-normal incidence of hate crimes surrounding such events (as for example that homeless guy).

* the Tuba playing (as someone posted in the thread) would hence be an example of an effective counter-protest. But fetishizing it, as I'm sure liberals are doing by now, would be pointless since it required probably the lamest neo-nazi group in history - I'd like to see the first person playing a Tuba when they're running towards you with baseball bats, for example. The traditional counter-protest method is hence a blockade, and the general strategic idea is to basically break their self-confidence in actually putting their ideas in practice.
 
Hi :)

The hard right is worse right now. Feel better, so yes they are not equal. But less worse is not better than the hard right, it is less worse.

I don't think that the hard right nor hard left has reasoned arguments, but I will defend their right to have free speech and demonstrate in a peaceful manner.

There are two sides here: The Nazis and everyone else.
 
just so we are clear, we are not counting the guy who shot up the baseball field or the guy who shot those cops in Texas as part of the alt left?
 

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