Proof of Immortality, VI

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Jabba said:
- According to materialists, the selves produced by the two brains would be different in whatever respect that is.
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Jabba, you have been told that this isn't the case enough times to make your statement of it here a lie.
 
Lies for Jesus, though. The same as lies, but different in whatever respect that is*.



*I felt dirty typing that jabbarish**

** the same as "gibberish," but different in wha.... you get the idea
 
godless dave said:
Even more confusing, he does seem to be able to grasp it as long as the things in question aren't selves.
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He's stuck on his feeling that the thing that is currently in his head calling itself "I" would not be the same thing as the thing that would be calling itself "I" in the head of a future duplicate. His mistake is thinking of either as a "thing" which can be "in" a head.
 
Jabba said:
- I'll try.
- Reincarnationists think that their selves come back to life. They think that whatever it is that they mean by "self" will be the same in the next lifetime.
- Materialists have the same experience that reincarnationists call the self, but materialists do not think that it will come back. Materialists believe that even if we produced a perfect copy of a particular brain, the copy would not produce the same self...
- According to materialists, the selves produced by the two brains would be different in whatever respect that is.
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No, 'materialists' don't think that. We keep explaining to you that this is your strawman, and after all this time I really don't understand why you keep misrepresenting the materialist position.

In your words, corrected:

- Materialists have the same experience that reincarnationists call the self, but materialists do not think that it will come back. Materialists believe that even if we produced a perfect copy of a particular brain, the copy would not produce the same self...
- According to materialists, the selves produced by the two brains would not be different in whatever respect that is.
Next time you want to represent the materialist position, please make the above corrections.
 
Jabba said:
- I'll try.
- Reincarnationists think that their selves come back to life. They think that whatever it is that they mean by "self" will be the same in the next lifetime.
- Materialists have the same experience that reincarnationists call the self, but materialists do not think that it will come back. Materialists believe that even if we produced a perfect copy of a particular brain, the copy would not produce the same self...
- According to materialists, the selves produced by the two brains would be different in whatever respect that is.
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godless dave said:
There would be two identical brains and thus two identical selves. I'm trying to figure out what difference you think they would have. I don't think they would be different in any respect.
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Agatha said:
No, 'materialists' don't think that. We keep explaining to you that this is your strawman, and after all this time I really don't understand why you keep misrepresenting the materialist position.

In your words, corrected:

- Materialists have the same experience that reincarnationists call the self, but materialists do not think that it will come back. Materialists believe that even if we produced a perfect copy of a particular brain, the copy would not produce the same self...
- According to materialists, the selves produced by the two brains would not be different in whatever respect that is.
Next time you want to represent the materialist position, please make the above corrections.
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Dave and Agatha,
- Do you guys agree with each other? Would the identical self be the same self?
 
Identical but separate. I have said this many times.
 
Jabba said:
Dave and Agatha,
- Do you guys agree with each other? Would the identical self be the same self?
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Would the identical body be the same body?

Would the identical head be the same head?

Would the identical brain be the same brain?

The answer is the same for selves as it is for the above three, for the same reasons.
 
Jabba said:
Dave and Agatha,
- Do you guys agree with each other? Would the identical self be the same self?
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Stop playing the "do you agree" game. You've been asked to support your claims. Stop defining them. Stop re-stating them. Stop looking for agreements and materials for your map. Just support your damned claims.
 
Jabba said:
Dave and Agatha,
- Do you guys agree with each other? Would the identical self be the same self?
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Nobody agrees with that. They just agree that identical people would each think they are the one, true original.

"Selves" as you use it is meaningless, the self constantly changes in intelligence, abilities, loves, tastes, hunger, environmental factors, etc. It is not a thing, it is a process.
 
Pixel42 said:
As has been pointed out many times, the only difference would be their spacetime coordinates. Jabba seems to be unable to grasp that two things can be identical without being the same thing.
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Oh, I think he knows. But he must pretend that when we say they will not be the same, we mean that they are different. ALL of Jabba's arguments are built around little deceptions like that.

Hans
 
Hum and drum

Argumemnon said:
So he wants us to be the befuddled old man?
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Misery loves company, to coin a phrase.

But hey, I'm Jabba's age. I volunteer for BOM.

-So Jabbo, do you agree that Metal Pig's bears (8 or 10 of 'em? right? or do they stand in for infinity?) are all the same except they don't have something you had when you were 14?

-?

-But do I agree that virtually proving stuff is the same as climbing Ranier?

-I'm slow, you're slow, we're ALL slow.

-Wait, that's a big city in Norway. Never mind.-

-Will I be back? -Or front?

-
 
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