General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

[Saggy]

Bang away.

Here we go ... this is the photo of actual Greek arrowheads from the time of the Trojan war, 1000 BC, you can, believe it or not, buy them ....

http://www.ancientresource.com/lots/greek/greek_weapons.html

And yet, there are no pictures of 'gas chambers' from WW II, 1945 AD !

Instead we have pictures of shower rooms, 'never used as a gas chamber' ....

The holohoax is a collection of preposterous and degenerate lies.

 

[dudalb]

 

[smartcooky]

Banging away is all Saggy has left; its the fall back position for people who refuse to debate honestly, and who cannot answer the tough questions being put to them. He has made a number of claims, and has not been able to substantiate any of them.

On some other forums, such a user would be put "on moderation". Only posts that contain answers to the questions they have been refusing to answer are published to the thread; the rest would be discarded. The user would not be taken off moderation until ALL the questions have been answered. I wonder if that is possible on ISF.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Here we go ... this is the photo of actual Greek arrowheads from the time of the Trojan war, 1000 BC, you can, believe it or not, buy them ....

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/ZhUkJTd.jpg[/qimg]

http://www.ancientresource.com/lots/greek/greek_weapons.html

And yet, there are no pictures of 'gas chambers' from WW II, 1945 AD !

Instead we have pictures of shower rooms, 'never used as a gas chamber' ....
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/FnUSTRU.jpg[/qimg]

The holohoax is a collection of preposterous and degenerate lies.

Because collectors can't buy this

or this

or this

?????

 

[LemmyCaution]

Maybe Saggy would feel better if these

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/28954765/...iest-uncovers-holocaust-bullets/#.WXlP6q2ZPq0

and these

https://www.ushmm.org/information/exhibitions/online-exhibitions/special-focus/desbois

were being sold via catalogues?

 

[Degeneve]

We are not in the field of a rational discussion anymore but rather trying to convince a member of a cult why his beliefs are wrong.

This remind me of the thread about the shroud of Turin with Jabba or discussions with a creationist. No way you can convince him he is wrong.

The only use of this kind of discussion is to show people who could have doubts and who could read this who has valuable arguments and who has no arguments at all.

 

[Nessie]

You are refusing to deal with the hoax you are alleging has taken place. What you can do is prove the liberation and survival of c101,000 Dutch Jews, c34,000 who went to Sobibor.

The hoax you are claiming is the incredible one of they lived on after liberation, whilst the Dutch Government was declaring them victims and missing presumed dead. Meanwhile, no historian or tracing agency has been able to find any evidence of the liberation, let alone survival of all of those people.

Then you have the problem of the Dutch Jews who did get to survive and return to their lives. Have they been fooled, or are they in with the hoax?

Denialists all over ignore or pretend they do not have to deal with the consequences of their claim of mass transits and survival from the AR camps and sites such as Rumbula, Ponary and Babi Yar.

Fact is, if there had been no murder, about 3 million more Jews should have survived the war. They would have reappeared, as the known survivors did, usually back in their country of origin, or they emigrated to Israel or the USA.

The population figures for those countries show that all of occupied countries had drops in the Jewish population;

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/02/09/europes-jewish-population/

but there was no corresponding rise in the populations in North America nor Israel.

Therefore according to Saggy's beliefs, about 3 million people vanished whilst in the custody of the Nazis and he can just ignore that and claim they were not murdered.

Constantly pointing that out greatly weakens denialism and it has been the reason why Eric Hunt and BRoI finally accepted that they were wrong. They did understand evidence and accepted they should be able to prove their beliefs. Saggy is just one of those who does not bother about evidence and he is probably enjoying the attention.

 

[Nessie]

We are not in the field of a rational discussion anymore but rather trying to convince a member of a cult why his beliefs are wrong.

This remind me of the thread about the shroud of Turin with Jabba or discussions with a creationist. No way you can convince him he is wrong.

The only use of this kind of discussion is to show people who could have doubts and who could read this who has valuable arguments and who has no arguments at all.

Indeed, getting people like Saggy to put forward their beliefs and how they evidence them (terribly, fallacy ridden, ignoring many issues they should not) proves denialism is corrupt and peddling a hoax.

Saggy is only to be used as an example of that.

 

[smartcooky]

We are not in the field of a rational discussion anymore but rather trying to convince a member of a cult why his beliefs are wrong.

This remind me of the thread about the shroud of Turin with Jabba or discussions with a creationist. No way you can convince him he is wrong.

The only use of this kind of discussion is to show people who could have doubts and who could read this who has valuable arguments and who has no arguments at all.

IMO we have been "playing to the audience" for quite a number of pages. This has been a really good opportunity for anyone following this "debate" to see first hand just how dishonest Holocaust Deniers are when it comes to debating and supporting their claims. They want to endlessly repeat their claims without substantiating them; they attempt to switch the burden of proof away from themselves; they refuse to answer questions which, if answered, will blow their claims out of the water, and they hand-wave away any and all evidence that doesn't fit their anti-Semitic and racist world view.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Saggy is a little extreme in this regard in that he won't even pretend to engage issues raised - he's afraid to say whether Dutch Jews were even deported! - and pretty systematically stonewalls questions and challenges. But many deniers, even those who bother to tart up false scenarios or move past old memes, often trade in these same tactics of evasion and tedium, even as they cover up their methods a bit better so as not to be so obvious.

 

[Hans]

He is using this discussion thread as a personal blog to post his 'feelings'.

 

[Saggy]

He is using this discussion thread as a personal blog to post his 'feelings'.

I'm using the discussion thread to post the truth.

It's worth noting that posting the truth about the holohoax is illegal in most European countries, as well as Russia, Canada, and Australia. And will and does result in serious jail time. See a partial list of those jailed here ...

Thought Control in Free Societies
http://www.holohoax101.org/thoughtcontrol/

So, we're living in a Orwellian world, where stating the truth is a crime in many countries. And of course the Jews are doing everything they can to make it a crime in the US but have thusfar been thwarted in the US by the 1st Amendment, see the ADL grouse about it here,

Racists, Bigots, and the Law on the Internet
https://web.archive.org/web/20060603121847/https://www.adl.org/internet/print.asp

So, they are reduced to sponsoring hasbara, who wreck any internet discussion with their imbecility. See...

A Guide to Hasbara Trolls
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/jonathon-blakeley-a-guide-to-hasbara-trolls.html

 

[LemmyCaution]

I'm using the discussion thread to post the truth.

So, truth-sayer, tell us the truth about what happened to Jews in the Netherlands during WWII.

No tangents, no dodging, no BS, no off topic links, no Wiesel: a direct answer to a straight question.

 

[Degeneve]

I'm using the discussion thread to post the truth.

It's worth noting that posting the truth about the holohoax is illegal in most European countries, as well as Russia, Canada, and Australia. And will and does result in serious jail time. See a partial list of those jailed here ...

Thought Control in Free Societies
http://www.holohoax101.org/thoughtcontrol/

If I remember well there are no more than 13 or maybe 14 European countries which have memory laws allowing to jail people for holocaust denial. This is far from being "most European countries".

Furthermore many of the guys on your list have never spent one single day in jail because they denied holocaust.

Last point for your information as you clearly ignore even this basic fact: Russia is an European country...

 

[Hans]

I'm using the discussion thread to post the truth.

Oh and how do you know its the truth?

 

[Saggy]

Oh and how do you know its the truth?

The only way you can know that the holocaust is a hoax is by studying the matter. We've all been brainwashed since birth practically with the lies. My 9th grade daugher has visited the hoax museum in DC, heard from a survivor, and heard a presentation on Anne Frank, all part of her middle school education. That is, the hoaxers are really stepping up their game and trying to pass laws mandating hoax education in every state. Here is the teacher's manual for teaching the hoax in KINDERGARTEN ! in FL .. you can google and download it ..

So, no antidote to this level of indoctrination is possible unless a person takes an active role in learning the truth.

However, once the truth is seen, the hoax is obvious and transparent. E.g. when you see a picture of a door to a 'gas chamber' as shown by the USHMM..

you know you're seeing preposterous and degenerate lies unlike anything else in history.

For anyone wanting to investigate, see
holohoax101.org

.... and I'll post a list of references later .....

 

[Degeneve]

However, once the truth is seen, the hoax is obvious and transparent. E.g. when you see a picture of a door to a 'gas chamber' as shown by the USHMM..

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/D9OfJN4.jpg[/qimg]

you know you're seeing preposterous and degenerate lies unlike anything else in history.

For anyone wanting to investigate, see
holohoax101.org

.... and I'll post a list of references later .....

The "door to a 'gas chamber'" hoax has been debunked one thousand times. This has never been the door of the gas chamber.

But to know it one needs something you have never done, i.e. do some home work.

 

[LemmyCaution]

The only way you can know that the holocaust is a hoax is by studying the matter. We've all been brainwashed since birth practically with the lies. My 9th grade daugher has visited the hoax museum in DC, heard from a survivor, and heard a presentation on Anne Frank, all part of her middle school education. That is, the hoaxers are really stepping up their game and trying to pass laws mandating hoax education in every state. Here is the teacher's manual for teaching the hoax in KINDERGARTEN ! in FL .. you can google and download it ..

But since the Holocaust happened, it'd be irresponsible not to teach about it.

And since you're shying away from supporting your views, explaining what's mistaken in the scholarship, and answering any specific questions anyone has - in favor of posting old, old links or repeating the words "hoax," "lies," "truth" - there's no reason anyone should take your posts seriously. They're so "Low Energy . . . sad!"

 

[Nessie]

I'm using the discussion thread to post the truth.

.....

Please evidence the truth by evidencing and proving the mass transportation of c34,000 Dutch Jews away from Sobibor and the survival of c101,000 Dutch Jews, the total declared as victims of the Holocaust by the Dutch Government.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Saggy, do you agree that about 34,000 Jews were deported from the Natherlands to Sobibór duing 1943. If so, can you answer about the supposed

mass transportation of c34,000 Dutch Jews away from Sobibor?

Further, do you agree that another 70,000 or so Jews were deported from the Netherlands roughly as accounted for in this chonrology from the Bundesarchiv? If so, can you tell us, counting all the Jews deported from the Netherlands during the war, about

the survival of c101,000 Dutch Jews, the total declared as victims of the Holocaust by the Dutch Government.

This should not be hard at all for someone who's studied hoaxing and is a bold truth-teller.