Merged All things Trump + Russia

[Stacko]

DNC donors/staffer file invasion-of-privacy lawsuit v. Trump Campaign and Roger Stone alleging conspiracy in release of hacked info.

Two Democratic Party donors and a former party staff member have filed an invasion of privacy lawsuit against President Trump’s campaign and a longtime informal adviser, Roger J. Stone Jr., accusing them of conspiring in the release of hacked Democratic emails and files that exposed their personal information to the public.

The case was organized by Protect Democracy, a government watchdog group run by former Obama administration lawyers. It filed the claim just short of a deadline under a one-year statute of limitations for privacy invasion lawsuits: WikiLeaks published the first archives of stolen Democratic National Committee emails, which intelligence agencies say Russia hacked to harm Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign and help Mr. Trump, last July 22.

Mr. Trump and his political advisers, including Mr. Stone, have repeatedly denied colluding with Russia, and the 44-page complaint, filed on Wednesday in the Federal District Court for the District of Columbia, does not contain any hard evidence that his campaign did. But it is seeking to depose witnesses and obtain campaign emails and other documents during the discovery process that is a standard part of lawsuits.

If a judge permits the case to reach that stage, the lawsuit would become a new and independent fact-finding investigation into the Trump-Russia issue — one that is overseen by a judge rather than by congressional Republicans, like the oversight inquiries conducted by the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, or by the Trump administration, like the criminal inquiry led by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III.

 

[jimbob]

I might have missed a step. I understand saying they were eager to collude. But where was the actual collusion?

Collusion is not a legal issue, so it doesn't need a legal standard of proof. However the emails make it clear that - Trump Jr *attempted* to collude; as has been said upthread, his defence is that Russia didn't cooperate with him... and presumably it is just a coincidence that after this the emails were leaked and that the Trump Campaign changed their policy on Ukraine and Russia.

Conspiracy is. It's also usually an offence to attempt to commit a crime, trying to buy drugs from an undercover policeman is still considered a criminal act, even if no transaction takes place.

 

[Stacko]

And we're a phone company. Wouldn't an American be even more protective of their elections than I am with something as trivial as wifi footprint?

Not the current President.

In the interview, Trump said he did not fault his son for holding the meeting. "I think many people would have held that meeting," the president said.

Then again your morals may be dictated by more than personal avarice.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

New day, new story dripping:

McClatchy: Trump-Russia investigators probe Jared Kushner-run digital operation

Congressional and Justice Department investigators are focusing on whether Trump’s campaign pointed Russian cyber operatives to certain voting jurisdictions in key states – areas where Trump’s digital team and Republican operatives were spotting unexpected weakness in voter support for Hillary Clinton, according to several people familiar with the parallel inquiries.

Also under scrutiny is the question of whether Trump associates or campaign aides had any role in assisting the Russians in publicly releasing thousands of emails, hacked from the accounts of top Democrats, at turning points in the presidential race, mainly through the London-based transparency web site WikiLeaks.

Rep. Adam Schiff of California, ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, told McClatchy he wants to know whether Russia’s “fake or damaging news stories” were “coordinated in any way in terms of targeting or in terms of timing or in terms of any other measure … with the (Trump) campaign.”

I think we can say #2 happened. Jr made a reference to "later in the summer" and a batch of emails were indeed dumped at that time to match the Democratic Convention. And there was a dump of the Podesta emails just after the pussy grab story.

Of course Putin wouldn't have needed Trump campaign input to time those email dumps. And the rest is about 'investigating' rather than found.

 

[quadraginta]

WaPo piece on whether the lrgal line was crossed for
(claimed attempted) conspiracy with a foreign government.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...ave-just-crossed-the-legal-line-on-collusion/

tldr, it's pretty close to the line even if it doesn't cross it, which it may.

ETA

An excerpt from the beginning of that article may help relieve Ziggurat of all the angst he has been suffering over the term "collusion".

First, a reframing of the way we think of collusion. Collusion actually is a political term; there's no line in the criminal code that says you go to jail for colluding with a foreign adversary.
But you can go to jail for conspiring with a foreign adversary to influence or undermine an election, and Jacobovitz thinks what Trump Jr. did, as documented by emails he himself shared on Twitter, could rise to that level.

Personally, I'm fine with the idea of replacing "collusion" and collude" with "conspiracy" and "conspire".

It certainly sounds more appropriate, and I suspect even Ziggurat can find some mutually agreeable definition of them.

It definitely clears up this issue of whether or not it's illegal. "Collusion" may not have an easily arrived at legal meaning outside of anti-trust law, but "conspiracy" sure does. And it isn't all that complicated.

Also, toward the end of the article they provide us with The Donald's (Senior) very own definition of "collusion".

Also worth noting: Trump himself has drawn a line in the sand of what collusion means to him, a definition he may come to regret. Essentially, the president has said, collusion is knowing about something going on illegally and not doing anything about it.

I wonder if Donald Jr., Jared Kushner, and Paul Manafort can all plausibly claim that they had no idea that conspiring with a foreign agent to solicit material for use against their campaign opponent could be a violation of Federal law?

I guess we're gonna find out.

 

[Belz...]

I wonder if CE knows Trump Jr has actually already admitted that it happened.

Pfft! More fake news!

 

[Bogative]

I might have missed a step. I understand saying they were eager to collude. But where was the actual collusion?

There has been zero evidence presented of collusion.

As of now, the only evidence presented is that Trump Jr went to meet with someone who was not an official of the Russian government expecting to obtain official information from the Russian government that could incriminate Hillary. Both parties have stated they did not exchange any information regarding Hillary.

That's enough evidence for impeachment for some people. For me, I'll wait for some actual evidence before I start demanding show trials.

 

[jimbob]

There has been zero evidence presented of collusion.

As of now, the only evidence presented is that Trump Jr and his Brother in law, and Trump's campaign manager went to meet with someone who was not an official of the Russian governmentalthough they believed that she was acting on behalf of the Russian government expecting to obtain official information from the Russian government that could incriminate Hillary. Both parties have stated they did not exchange any information regarding Hillary.

That's enough evidence for impeachment for some people. For me, I'll wait for some actual evidence before I start demanding show trials.

Added a couple of important additions

 

[uke2se]

Added a couple of important additions

Why, with those additions it rather seems like there is evidence for collusion, doesn't it. Wonder why they were left out.

 

[Bogative]

Added a couple of important additions

Thanks for the ads, I'll re-summarize.

Some people desperately want to impeach Donald Trump because his campaign officials and son did not receive information from a "hostile" power via a citizen with no proven links to the government of said hostile power.

 

[snoop_doxie]

Bogative,

Do you know why Donald Jr mentioned adoptions the first time he lied about
this meeting with the Russian attorney?

 

[jimbob]

Thanks for the ads, I'll re-summarize.

Some people desperately want to impeach Donald Trump because his campaign officials and son did not receive information from a "hostile" power via a citizen with no proven links to the government of said hostile power.

Attempting to commit a criminal act is generally still considered to be a criminal act.

Trump's team have indeed denied that anything came of the meeting, but then they initially... forgot... about it entirely, and (let's be frank here) lied about the intent of the meeting until forced to alter their story by the NYT.

Trump's team say that nothing came from the meeting but they changed their policy and the Clinton emails were released. News reports claim that Gurcifer is a Kremlin agent.

There is also this story from earlier, which might begin to make more sense in the light of these latest revelations

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/09/p...ussian-bank-and-trump-organization/index.html

CNN)Federal investigators and computer scientists continue to examine whether there was a computer server connection between the Trump Organization and a Russian bank, sources close to the investigation tell CNN.

Questions about the possible connection were widely dismissed four months ago. But the FBI's investigation remains open, the sources said, and is in the hands of the FBI's counterintelligence team -- the same one looking into Russia's suspected interference in the 2016 election.

 

[johnny karate]

You've convinced me. IMPEACH DONALD TRUMP JUNIOR!!! I was wrong to say Donald Trump Jr. didn't believe the person he was meeting was connected to the Russia government. Thank you for correcting my mistake.

FTFY

 

[johnny karate]

Thanks for the ads, I'll re-summarize.

Some people desperately want to impeach Donald Trump because his campaign officials and son did not receive information from a "hostile" power via a citizen with no proven links to the government of said hostile power.

Just like the DEA desperately wants to arrest people who don't buy actual drugs from people who turn out not to be actual drug dealers.

 

[skyeagle409]

Thanks for the ads, I'll re-summarize.

Some people desperately want to impeach Donald Trump because his campaign officials and son did not receive information from a "hostile" power via a citizen with no proven links to the government of said hostile power.

The emails of Trump Jr. says it all. He acted illegally and sought to collude with the government of Russia and never reported his contact to the FBI.

 

[uke2se]

The emails of Trump Jr. says it all. He acted illegally and sought to collude with the government of Russia and never reported his contact to the FBI.

Not just him. His brother-in-law and Trump's campaign manager as well.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Thanks for the ads, I'll re-summarize.

Some people desperately want to impeach Donald Trump because his campaign officials and son did not receive information from a "hostile" power via a citizen with no proven links to the government of said hostile power.

What nonsense, and you know this straw is just that.

 

[Bogative]

Bogative,

Do you know why Donald Jr mentioned adoptions the first time he lied about
this meeting with the Russian attorney?

Not sure. Because that's what was discussed?

 

[johnny karate]

Not just him. His brother-in-law and Trump's campaign manager as well.

Yes, but Hillary! And also do you even know what "collusion" means?

 

[Emily's Cat]

I consider myself Argumemnon. I'm a centrist because of my beliefs and goals, but if you want to run an average and say I'm on the left, go ahead. However averaging opinions sounds very silly since they don't have mathematical values. Let's just say that I'm far from automatically siding with the left on all issues.

That circles me right back to my earlier claim that your statement (below) is a false dichotomy

Clearly, if "the left" lost its mind and "the right" is insane, then there are zero people remaining who are sound of mind.