It CAN Happen Here....

[The Don]

This is false. The larges single homogeneous block of voters did not get the candidate they wanted.

I disagree. Trump drew a lot of his support from white, lower middle and working class voters with comparatively low educational achievement the majority of whom profess a Christian faith - a very homogeneous group.

Hillary's supporters OTOH were very diverse. That diversity was racial, religious, economic and in terms of educational achievement. The Democratic Party seems to draw its support from a tapestry of different groups whereas the core of the GOP support can be described with a handful of adjectives.

Hillary won the popular vote but IMO no one of the groups who supported her was as big as the group of "white, lower middle and working class voters with comparatively low educational achievement the majority of whom profess a Christian faith" which formed the core of the GOP support.

 

[The Don]

It is immediately apparent: obstruction of justice for the impeachment, and money laundering for the criminal charge.

You have good evidence for the money laundering ? I know there are plenty of stories, including Trump reportedly flipping a Florida property for a huge profit at the height of the slump but AFAIK at this stage it's allegations and suspicions

How does it seem like that to you? I'm genuinely interested, because that's about 180 degrees from what it seems like to me.

The FBI director serves at the pleasure of the President and so legally the President can sack him/her at any time. As I understand it, the issue isn't that Trump fired Comey, but that he's alleged to have done so to impair the FBI investigation(s) into Trump. The issue isn't with the action but rather the (alleged) motivation for that.

 

[The Don]

What's needed is to expand the electorate, bring in people who don't normally vote. I believe Trump's antics might just accomplish that.

Sadly Trump's antics did get people to the polls who don't normally vote- that's one of the reasons why he won

 

[uke2se]

I disagree. Trump drew a lot of his support from white, lower middle and working class voters with comparatively low educational achievement the majority of whom profess a Christian faith - a very homogeneous group.

Hillary's supporters OTOH were very diverse. That diversity was racial, religious, economic and in terms of educational achievement. The Democratic Party seems to draw its support from a tapestry of different groups whereas the core of the GOP support can be described with a handful of adjectives.

Hillary won the popular vote but IMO no one of the groups who supported her was as big as the group of "white, lower middle and working class voters with comparatively low educational achievement the majority of whom profess a Christian faith" which formed the core of the GOP support.

Ok, but so far in the US, a vote from a black person matters as much as a vote from a white person. Homogeneity in votes cast matters not at all. The largest group of homogeneous voters where Democrats. They didn't get their candidate elected.

 

[uke2se]

You have good evidence for the money laundering ? I know there are plenty of stories, including Trump reportedly flipping a Florida property for a huge profit at the height of the slump but AFAIK at this stage it's allegations and suspicions.

I don't, no, but I'm not conducting an investigation on Trump. There are others that are, and evidence for money laundering isn't hard to find. Of course, it matters what you consider to be 'good'.

I'd wager that in Trump's financial documents there will be lots of prosecutable evidence.

The FBI director serves at the pleasure of the President and so legally the President can sack him/her at any time. As I understand it, the issue isn't that Trump fired Comey, but that he's alleged to have done so to impair the FBI investigation(s) into Trump. The issue isn't with the action but rather the (alleged) motivation for that.

The firing of Comey proves the intent. The crime was committed when Trump asked Comey to lay off Flynn.

 

[uke2se]

Sadly Trump's antics did get people to the polls who don't normally vote- that's one of the reasons why he won

Don't buy it. Trump didn't get more voters than any previous GOP nominee. On the other hand, Democratic voters stayed at home to a greater extent, or voted third party/wrote in Bernie.

Clinton won the popular vote with a huge margin. Trump didn't perform any miracles. He got severely lucky, on top of the voter suppression efforts from the GOP and Russian influence. To beat Trump, all that's needed is a few tens of thousand votes in two or three states. Hopefully Trump will **** up so badly that this is a sure bet.

But the Democrats shouldn't bet on that. Keep working against gerrymandering and voter suppression. Target local elections heavily. Out GOP candidates for their ties to Trump or unpopular policies like the new health-care bill. Get the ground game working and go cleen-sweep in 2018. Top it off with a charismatic and progressive candidate (progressive like Clinton or like Bernie, but neither of those two), and in 2021 we could see a unified government that works for the people, supported by slightly more than half the people.

 

[The Don]

Ok, but so far in the US, a vote from a black person matters as much as a vote from a white person.

You are correct.

Homogeneity in votes cast matters not at all.

Also correct, I was just pointing out that the largest single homogeneous group got the candidate they wanted - a typical result from a first past the post system.

The largest group of homogeneous voters where Democrats. They didn't get their candidate elected.

No they weren't, the Democratic support was, and is, very heterogeneous. This has the unfortunate consequence of making it much easier to divide and conquer and to lose support. The Bernie Bros are a good example of that IMO.

 

[uke2se]

You are correct.



Also correct, I was just pointing out that the largest single homogeneous group got the candidate they wanted - a typical result from a first past the post system.



No they weren't, the Democratic support was, and is, very heterogeneous. This has the unfortunate consequence of making it much easier to divide and conquer and to lose support. The Bernie Bros are a good example of that IMO.

They were all Democrats. Homogeneously so. So, as I said, the largest homogeneous group didn't get their president.

Race is neither here nor there. White voters don't vote as a block.

ETA: Come to think of it, the largest actually homogeneous block of voters - going with your definition - was probably women. They didn't get their candidate either.

 

[The Don]

I don't, no, but I'm not conducting an investigation on Trump. There are others that are, and evidence for money laundering isn't hard to find. Of course, it matters what you consider to be 'good'.

I'd wager that in Trump's financial documents there will be lots of prosecutable evidence.

You're guessing and yet you are so sure. I fear that you are going to be disappointed.

The firing of Comey proves the intent. The crime was committed when Trump asked Comey to lay off Flynn.

...and yet the wording was (deliberately ?) ambiguous.

I guess we'll see but I have no confidence that impeachment calls will gain any traction unless Democrats somehow manage to control House and Senate. Even then I think it very, very unlikely that impeachment proceedings will result in any kind of a conviction.

 

[The Don]

ETA: Come to think of it, the largest actually homogeneous block of voters - going with your definition - was probably women. They didn't get their candidate either.

The majority of white women voted for Trump.

 

[Bob001]

....
The FBI director serves at the pleasure of the President and so legally the President can sack him/her at any time. As I understand it, the issue isn't that Trump fired Comey, but that he's alleged to have done so to impair the FBI investigation(s) into Trump. The issue isn't with the action but rather the (alleged) motivation for that.

It's actually both. Unlike other executive branch officials, the FBI Director is appointed to a 10-year term to isolate him from political concerns. The President can fire him, as Trump did, but it's supposed -- though not legally required -- to be for cause. That's why Trump went through the charade of having the deputy AG produce a letter alleging Comey's unfitness. There's also a lot of bad feeling in the FBI about how Trump fired Comey, in a manner calculated to inflict maximum humiliation.

 

[The Don]

It's actually both. Unlike other executive branch officials, the FBI Director is appointed to a 10-year term to isolate him from political concerns. The President can fire him, as Trump did, but it's supposed -- though not legally required -- to be for cause. That's why Trump went through the charade of having the deputy AG produce a letter alleging Comey's unfitness. There's also a lot of bad feeling in the FBI about how Trump fired Comey, in a manner calculated to inflict maximum humiliation.

Thanks for the clarification.....

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

...and the American people are becoming the casualties of this war against Democracy itself.

Some of them while cheering from the sidelines.

 

[quadraginta]

<snip>

There are exceptions to this. Hearst was such an exception, for example. But Hearst was blatant in his bias, and had many critics.

<snip>

He also had many more subscribers. Specifically because of his blatant bias.

Not so different from today.

And maybe not such an exception.

Hearst developed the journalistic style which made him popular by imitating what Joseph Pulitzer was already doing. Pulitzer was being roundly criticized for sensationalism and muckraking, and his papers were selling like crazy.

Hearst just decided, quite purposefully, to ride the same kind of horse when he saw how well it worked for Pulitzer.

Then they got into a circulation battle, each trying to outdo the other, and people loved it.

The term "yellow journalism' wasn't coined to refer to Hearst, at least not alone. It was coined as a criticism of both Hearst and Pulitzer, who had started the whole thing.

 

[Hlafordlaes]

Those twiddling thumbs about "the end ain't here, yet, so what me care?" didn't see John Oliver's last broadcast on media concentration. The propaganda fix is tightening its grip fast; soon most will see and hear nothing that isn't GOP filthy lies and propaganda, if it isn't the case already.

As for the poor little misunderstood "good guy conservatives" in all this: yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. Two words: Christian coalition. Two more: voodoo econ. Two more: "federal gummint!" You sell baseless crap and raise people on it, what in heaven's name did you expect? The GOP has been rolling out the red carpet for a Trump since 1980. Own it.

 

[Bob001]

You have good evidence for the money laundering ? I know there are plenty of stories, including Trump reportedly flipping a Florida property for a huge profit at the height of the slump but AFAIK at this stage it's allegations and suspicions
....

No fire, but lotsa smoke, including a federal settlement agreement and penalty for "routine" money laundering in AC:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics...ia-money-laundering-banks-oligarchs-manafort/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...f65e4b05c37bb7bbbdb?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000313
http://www.salon.com/2017/05/23/is-...crimes-may-be-the-presidents-biggest-problem/
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/22/politics/trump-taj-mahal/index.html

 

[Giz]

Those twiddling thumbs about "the end ain't here, yet, so what me care?" didn't see John Oliver's last broadcast on media concentration. The propaganda fix is tightening its grip fast; soon most will see and hear nothing that isn't GOP filthy lies and propaganda, if it isn't the case already.

Yeah, I'd noticed how the media were all singing Trump's praises and it was hard to find a bad story about him.

 

[Brainster]

Hillary won the popular vote but IMO no one of the groups who supported her was as big as the group of "white, lower middle and working class voters with comparatively low educational achievement the majority of whom profess a Christian faith" which formed the core of the GOP support.

Minorities and single women.

 

[Mumbles]

It's actually both. Unlike other executive branch officials, the FBI Director is appointed to a 10-year term to isolate him from political concerns. The President can fire him, as Trump did, but it's supposed -- though not legally required -- to be for cause. That's why Trump went through the charade of having the deputy AG produce a letter alleging Comey's unfitness. There's also a lot of bad feeling in the FBI about how Trump fired Comey, in a manner calculated to inflict maximum humiliation.

Apparently quite a few of them showed to to a recent Family Day event wearing "Comey's my Homey" shirts.

 

[The Don]

Minorities

By definition a small group....

and single women.

Is that a bigger group than the "white, lower middle and working class voters with comparatively low educational achievement the majority of whom profess a Christian faith" which formed the core of the GOP support ?

Presumably there's a significant intersection between the two.