General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

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As predicted unreliable and hostile sources

From one source - the Afghan one.

US Alliance war policies in a swathe of countries from Occupied Haiti to Occupied Afghanistan and NW Pakistan, coupled with similarly greedy and racist US Alliance global warming policies, oppose and prevent global equity and will ultimately kill 10 billion non-Europeans this century.

Also utterly ignored by Neocon American and Zionist Imperialist (NAZI)-perverted and subverted Western Mainstream media are the 1.2 million people who have died world-wide since 9-11 due to US Alliance restoration of the Taliban-destroyed Afghan opium industry from 6% of world market share in 2001 to 93% in 2007, the breakdown (as of 2015) including 280,000 Americans, 256,000 Indonesians, 68,000 Iranians, 25,000 British, 14,000 Canadians, 10,000 Germans, 5,000 Australians and 500 French.

Ah ten billion - you should use that number Saggy.

Hey when did we 'occupy' Haiti and NW Pakistan?

LOL
 
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As predicted unreliable and hostile sources

From one source - the Afghan one.





Ah ten billion - you should use that number Saggy.

Hey when did we 'occupy' Haiti and NW Pakistan?

LOL

"14,000 Canadians"?

We had 158 deaths in Afghanistan, where the hell are the rest?
 
I took a peek at the reference for that quote and it looks like Justice Stone had a problem with wars ending in a trial for the losing side's leaders. Google books doesn't have the full page. I'm prepared to be shocked if, in context, it reads as if it supports the argument made by codoh.
According to a speech given by Chief Justice Rehnquist, Stone didn't have a problem dispensing justice on the "bad lot" on the losing side, but preferred that it wasn't dressed up in the trappings of a trial.

... [it would not disturb him greatly if the power of the Allied victors was] openly and frankly used to punish the German leaders for being a bad lot, but it disturbs me some to have it dressed up in the habiliments of the common law and the Constitutional safeguards to those charged with crime.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/publicinfo/speeches/sp_05-17-04a.html
 
The Afghan population has grown from 20 million to over 32 million since 9/11. We totally suck at teh genocide.
 
The Afghan population has grown from 20 million to over 32 million since 9/11. We totally suck at teh genocide.

We certainly do the population has increased in many Muslim nations due to health care and nutrition improvements over the last two generations.

Maybe that was the evil plan to wipe them out by over population?

lol
 
Considering the death toll in America from heroin, opiods, and fentanyl will surpass 30,000 this year I'm starting to think the Afghans are winning.:thumbsup:

Given that two and half million Americas die each year - they are winning but at an insignificant game!
 
The point of the OP was that
#1 the US military is roaming the world killing hundreds of thousands
#2 the US population is unaware and or unconcerned
#3 this is exactly as described in 1984, with the media's continuous vilification of the enemies of the state who are totally unknown to the population, and the government control of the historical record through propaganda and ultimately coercion.

The the focal point of the OP being the 26,000 bombs the US military dropped on the Muslims in 2016.

And, not one response expressed an iota of concern for the ultimately millions of victims of the US military in the last 25 years, instead we were told ...

' I thought we wanted to bomb the Muslims because they have been keen to bomb us. '

'Western lives are worth more than Muslim lives'

'..... a colossal mistake in judgement?'

'1984 was about communism, '

'Cheap carpets, the country is going out of business, everything's got to go.'

'Bombing is a lot like healthcare. You don't stop doing it until the problem goes away.'

All of which illustrates the effectiveness of the state's propaganda I suppose. I doubt that Orwell could have imagined this level of blithe nonchalance as millions are murdered.

He didn't need to imagine it, he observed Nazi Germany do it.
 
If we look at for subjects in history that is controlled by the state to the extent that force is employed when it is questioned or challenged, there is only one, and that is the Holocaust, with laws in many countries that subject persons who insist on challenging that aspect of history to severe prison sentences. What is the connection?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

Did you ever wonder why the list of countries that make it specifically illegal to deny the Holocaust is virtually identical to the list of countries that either activity participated in the Holocaust or who had large sections of their population killed during it?
 
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If we look at for subjects in history that is controlled by the state to the extent that force is employed when it is questioned or challenged, there is only one, and that is the Holocaust, with laws in many countries that subject persons who insist on challenging that aspect of history to severe prison sentences. What is the connection?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_a...locaust_denial

You also cannot challenge in Turkey that they did not participate in the Armenian genocide is that a subject in history? Yes

So not one. There are a number of such laws. You can find that there are many laws against things - look at North Korea their history has nothing to do with reality and it is illegal to state otherwise.

So your conjecture is wrong.
 
Yesterday a French court came to the conclusion that writing in a press article that Robert Faurisson is a “professional liar”, a “falsifier” and a “forger of history” is compliant with the truth.

Faurisson was suing the French newspaper “Le Monde” and journalist Ariane Chemin for defamation because these words had been used to describe him in an article published in August 2012. He lost the case yesterday but has still the possibility to file an appeal against the court decision (sorry, not English source available): http://www.lemonde.fr/police-justic...la-loupe-par-la-justice_5139702_1653578.html?
 
He didn't need to imagine it, he observed Nazi Germany do it.

In 1984 the armies of Oceania are roaming the world fighting war after war against an enemy today who was an ally yesterday, with the population at home blissfully unaware and unconcerned, and that state of affairs is maintained by constant propaganda and the constant rewriting of history so that the record shows that today's enemies are villains of long standing and today's allies have always been allies.

But, if you think critically, there is a flaw in Orwell's thinking. I just finished 'The French Revolution and Napoleonic Wars' by Great Courses (incredibly good). Napoleon's armies fought constant wars for 10 years against most of the world, and even after being defeated in Russia and losing hundreds of thousands of men, the French people never demurred. Napoleon was exiled and fought his way back, to the acclamation of the French people. Which reminds me of this quote ... from the oldest thing written, 2500 BC, on stone tablets,

"He has worn us down like a river flowing through a gorge. Like a waterfall splashing on the rocks. So much life, so much energy. He makes perpetual war you know? He spends our sons like so many arrows in his quiver. And for what? For the excitement of a battle charge. He if forever building new towers. For what? For the sake of touching the sky. You see the wall that surrounds Uruk? Who do you think toiled under the sun to drag the stones? We call on the gods to spare us, but on and on runs Gilagmesh, with us for the soles of his sandals."

So, nothing had changed from 2500 b.c. to 1890 a.d.

Now I've just started Buchanan's 'The Unnecessary War' which begins with the machinations of the European states, Britain, France, Germany, Russia and China and Japan from 1900 on ... and there is a constant shifting of alliances, and wars fought, leading up to WW I, and for all practical purposes the populations of the countries were unaware and unconcerned. Then, there is this incredible quote (Malynski) from 1929 ...

‘It is only when we realize that France was invaded by hundreds of thousands of inhabitants from Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Florida, Illinois, Wyoming, California, Louisiana, and subsequently from Ontario, Manitoba, Rhodesia and New South Wales, whose only possible motive was to hasten the triumph of democracy, that we begin to understand something of the power of Israel. The power to stir up a whole nation of solid, egotistical and utilitarian individuals, and to persuade them that their greatest privilege is to set out and get themselves killed at the uttermost ends of the earth, with no hope of gain for themselves or their children and almost without their understanding against or for whom they are fighting, or why, is a simply incredible phenomenon which makes one afraid when one comes to think about it.’

The point is that governments have always been able to get their populations to actively and even enthusiastically support wars and the slaughter of the people of other nations. All the mind control mechanisms described in 1984 are gratuitous, superfluous.

So, the fact that the US population is unaware and unconcerned as the US armies decimate the middle east is ..... exactly what one would expect from examining 4000 years of human history.
 
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May I ask Saggy, the creator of the OP, one simple question? Do you accept that during the years 1933-1945 (gaining speed between 1942 and 1945) Nazi Germany and some of her allies through neglect, mistreatment and deliberate murder killed millions of people, a majority of them from the Jewish culture but also gays, Romany, socialists, indeed any group that opposed the regime politically as well as the the disabled and the mentally ill? I ask because your OP is of a common type we have seen here before of people who are either holocaust deniers or anti-Semitic. Please note that I am not asking you to put an accurate figure on the deaths caused, but do you accept the history which shows that this happened. Before finding that out, I am unwilling to consider your claim that Zionism has caused the woes of the post WW2 Middle East seriously.
 
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....deleted nonsense....

Napoleon was deposed because he lost a war and the people refused to fight further the nation having been exhausted over twenty+ years of war.

1984 is a novel - it isn't history.

As noted the USA isn't 'decimating the ME', lol. Decimation specifically refers to killing 10% of a population.

The people of the US (well most) are aware of our actions in the ME. You keep pretending they aren't. Even you most hated 'mainstream' media is full of stories about the ME and our actions there. Remember your surprise when you found that all the bombing attacks are on a website - that was a real slap in the face wasn't it? lol

Saggy you keep making wild statements that have no basis.
 
Napoleon was deposed because he lost a war and the people refused to fight further the nation having been exhausted over twenty+ years of war.

You need to review Napoleon's incredible history. After the Russian catastrophe Louis the 18th? was installed and Napoleon was exiled to Elba. Not long thereafter he led a ragtag army, gaining men and strength as we went, and marched from southern France to Paris, Louis fled, and Napoleon became emperor for the 2nd time with the acclaim of the French people. A few months later he marched his army to Waterloo, lost, Louis returned, Napoleon was exiled to St. Helena, and that was that.

As noted the USA isn't 'decimating the ME', lol. Decimation specifically refers to killing 10% of a population.

As noted in the OP, the US has been bombing the middle east daily for 25 years, in the last 15 dropping tens of thousands of bombs yearly, 26000 in 2016. Millions have been killed in wars that are senseless from the US perspective, that have been fought for the sole purpose of advancing Israel's goal of dominating the entire region.
 
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In 1984 the armies of Oceania are roaming the world fighting war after war against an enemy today who was an ally yesterday, with the population at home blissfully unaware and unconcerned, and that state of affairs is maintained by constant propaganda and the constant rewriting of history so that the record shows that today's enemies are villains of long standing and today's allies have always been allies.

But, if you think critically, there is a flaw in Orwell's thinking. I just finished 'The French Revolution and Napoleonic Wars' by Great Courses (incredibly good). Napoleon's armies fought constant wars for 10 years against most of the world, and even after being defeated in Russia and losing hundreds of thousands of men, the French people never demurred. Napoleon was exiled and fought his way back, to the acclamation of the French people. Which reminds me of this quote ... from the oldest thing written, 2500 BC, on stone tablets,

"He has worn us down like a river flowing through a gorge. Like a waterfall splashing on the rocks. So much life, so much energy. He makes perpetual war you know? He spends our sons like so many arrows in his quiver. And for what? For the excitement of a battle charge. He if forever building new towers. For what? For the sake of touching the sky. You see the wall that surrounds Uruk? Who do you think toiled under the sun to drag the stones? We call on the gods to spare us, but on and on runs Gilagmesh, with us for the soles of his sandals."

So, nothing had changed from 2500 b.c. to 1890 a.d.

Now I've just started Buchanan's 'The Unnecessary War' which begins with the machinations of the European states, Britain, France, Germany, Russia and China and Japan from 1900 on ... and there is a constant shifting of alliances, and wars fought, leading up to WW I, and for all practical purposes the populations of the countries were unaware and unconcerned. Then, there is this incredible quote (Malynski) from 1929 ...

‘It is only when we realize that France was invaded by hundreds of thousands of inhabitants from Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Florida, Illinois, Wyoming, California, Louisiana, and subsequently from Ontario, Manitoba, Rhodesia and New South Wales, whose only possible motive was to hasten the triumph of democracy, that we begin to understand something of the power of Israel. The power to stir up a whole nation of solid, egotistical and utilitarian individuals, and to persuade them that their greatest privilege is to set out and get themselves killed at the uttermost ends of the earth, with no hope of gain for themselves or their children and almost without their understanding against or for whom they are fighting, or why, is a simply incredible phenomenon which makes one afraid when one comes to think about it.’

The point is that governments have always been able to get their populations to actively and even enthusiastically support wars and the slaughter of the people of other nations. All the mind control mechanisms described in 1984 are gratuitous, superfluous.

So, the fact that the US population is unaware and unconcerned as the US armies decimate the middle east is ..... exactly what one would expect from examining 4000 years of human history

You make a mistake common to individuals in a certain demographic.

It's not that individuals don't care about current events, they don't care about your opinion on the subject.
 
So, the fact that the US population is unaware and unconcerned as the US armies decimate the middle east is ..... exactly what one would expect from examining 4000 years of human history.

dictionary.com said:
verb (used with object), decimated, decimating.
1. to destroy a great number or proportion of:
The population was decimated by a plague.
2. to select by lot and kill every tenth person of.

https://knoema.com/WBPEP2017/health...opulation-estimates-and-projections-1960-2050



:notm
 
You need to review Napoleon's incredible history.

It would seem you are talking to yourself. What happened after Napoleon was sent to St. Helena?

...deleted a repeat of claims without evidence....

Yawn, got anything but the same un-evidenced claims?
 
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