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Destroyed Atlantis = Menorah

To some seven symbolized the 3 concentric circles of Atlantis, cut in half, and mistaken for a candle holder/lamp.

There is always some I guess. I find it very far fetched and on the border of silly.

Number symbolism? Why not gold symbolism, light symbolism?

It is ALL 'made up' symbolism...

Because number mysticism is actually a thing.

No one KNOWS exactly what the menorah means or represents, or why lamps turned to candles? (*Let's bring Herman Melville into this!? lol)

My point is, that it was an adopted symbol, otherwise meaningless to the Jewish people. They have applied their own meaning(s).

So your point is?: The Jewish people saw a cool locking foreign symbol, one that they did not knew what it symbolized, and adapted it for one of their most holy objects? Do you really find that to be the most likely source of the design of the menorah? I do not and I think that there is a reason why your opinion is by far the minority view.
 
I didn't 'bork' or ignore anything. I addressed it later in my post.

The number of 'known' planets has changed. Ask Pluto.

If you turn a crucifix sideways, it is only a line. Does a line represent Christianity?

I haven't rejected anything...

So what? This is my evidence that the symbol was adopted! You just 'so what'ed' evidence...!! Keep it up, my ignore list has room.

Nope, wrong again. I am claiming that the best most reasonable origin of the menorah is that it represents a destroyed Atlantis. I don't KNOW this to be true. I believe it is best possible explanation given the facts as we have them. If presented with an alternative theory, with better evidence, I shall change my mind. The only people who claim absolute knowledge are those claiming Plato is ONLY pure fiction.

Ummm, no. I am arguing that the menorah was adopted, that symbols get adopted ALL the time.

Godwin? I'm gonna need more context.
No, you will continue to bork quotations.

Look at how you borked this quote. It cannot be unintentional.

Now, I could go back but that disturbs you for some reason. What is that reason?
 
That's not a point. It is a demonstration of how to use imperfect evidence to attack entire histories and their writers.

Presented with only underwater ruins, the poster used the unexamined evidence to claim Plato had to be entirely wrong.

My patience has limits.
Mine does too - with silliness anyway!!!!
 
Ah, yes! That amazing debate tactic of "put people who ask for evidence on the ignore list". Classic. Of course it only really works if you're delusional, since it doesn't convince anyone else that the evidence exists.

Since Porpoise of Life and I were both put on ignore for asking questions that essentially everyone here has asked, how long do you think it will be before he just ignores everyone and then wonders why nobody will reply to him?

I am good with it!!!!!!
 
If the definition of Atlantis is a sunken city/civilization now at the bottom of the Atlantic, and I showed you sunken ruins off the Spanish coast...I thusly qualify those as "Atlantan"...

If the connection there is unclear, I'll lend you my ruler.

You do realize that sunken ruins near coastal ruins or near coastal cities aren't that unusual right?
 
There is always some I guess. I find it very far fetched and on the border of silly.

You are entitled to believe in whatever you like.

Because number mysticism is actually a thing.

Sure. SO important was the 7, here, that it became 8, 9, in some cases 15!

This symbol has changed, and dramatically so. This demonstrates its meaninglessness.

So your point is?: The Jewish people saw a cool locking foreign symbol, one that they did not knew what it symbolized, and adapted it for one of their most holy objects? Do you really find that to be the most likely source of the design of the menorah? I do not and I think that there is a reason why your opinion is by far the minority view.

Holy object? So holy that it is changeable! That doesn't sound sacred at all...
 
Jeez! Would y'all stop quoting the borked quotes without fixing them?

Meanwhile, KotA, I have proof of whatever it is I'm trying to prove. Read through this and you'll see it plain as day. After you've finished reading, we can discuss it. The pertinent parts are in Book IV and Book VI, or is that Book I and Book V. Oh, it doesn't matter, just read through this so that we're on the same page and we'll be happy to discuss how you can see the obvious proof.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/25717/25717-h/25717-h.htm
 
Sure. SO important was the 7, here, that it became 8, 9, in some cases 15!

WHY do you keep repeating this nonsense? WHAT is your PROBLEM with FACTS?????

The menorah had 7 oil lamps in ancient times, and it still has SEVEN today. Modern menorot have either 7 oil lamps or 7 candles, but it is STILL SEVEN!!!!!

After the hanukkah story, a hanukkah menorah (lamp) was/is used for HANUKKAH which has 9 lights, one each for the 8 nights of hannukah, plus the shamash (helper) which is used to light the other 8.

The 7-branch menorah is STILL in use AS WELL AS the 9 light hanukkah lamp.

They are NOT the SAME THING!

They are both in use and DISTINCT!!!

NO jews get one confused with the other.

I have posted this SEVERAL TIMES!!

Get

It

Through

Your

Head


This symbol has changed, and dramatically so. This demonstrates its meaninglessness.

I have explained this FALSE statement to you SEVERAL TIMES!

GET

IT

THROUGH

YOUR

HEAD



Holy object? So holy that it is changeable! That doesn't sound sacred at all...

First you kept claiming it was "worshipped" and got snarky when I told you it was not, and you kept claiming it was.

Now you claim it "doesn't sound sacred at all".

Which is it, oh wise one???
 
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You are entitled to believe in whatever you like.

And so are you. What you are not entitled to do is claim that your beliefs are facts.

Sure. SO important was the 7, here, that it became 8, 9, in some cases 15!

This symbol has changed, and dramatically so. This demonstrates its meaninglessness.

Holy object? So holy that it is changeable! That doesn't sound sacred at all...
I agree with Zivans reply above.
 
Zivan has corrected him on that at least four times now, maybe more. KOTA completely ignores this every time, and keeps claiming the amount of lights on the menorah has changed. Not only is this false, not only has this been pointed out more than should be neccesary, but even if he were right, it wouldn't support his own claims in the slightest.

He claims that the menorah was based on a stylized map of atlantis, neatly broken in half, with the part closest to the coast remaining, and the more elevated part gone (because that's how floods work, right?).

He needs to show:

There is a symbol that was meant to signify Atlantis.
This symbol changed over time to half a city plan.
The ancient Israelites came into contact with a culture that used this new version of the symbol and decided to model their temple lamp on it.

He hasn't provided evidence for any of that. In fact, he didn't even provide an image of the Spanish carving, but told us to watch the movie. I did, but he still refused to discuss it.

For reference, here is a still from the movie, showing the badly eroded symbol that KOTA claims represents both a map of Atlantis, with three concentric circles and a trident representing Poseidon's temple, and an upside down menorah with 7 arms and a stand.

The bottom one is traced by me, in an effort to make the lines a little clearer.
As you can see, there are more than three arches, which means it neither corresponds with Atlantis, nor with the menorah. And the part that is supposed to represent either the menorah's stand, or the canal and temple isn't there, because the vertical line does not extend beyond the outer arch.

Basically, he's got nothing.
 

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Jeez! Would y'all stop quoting the borked quotes without fixing them?

Meanwhile, KotA, I have proof of whatever it is I'm trying to prove. Read through this and you'll see it plain as day. After you've finished reading, we can discuss it. The pertinent parts are in Book IV and Book VI, or is that Book I and Book V. Oh, it doesn't matter, just read through this so that we're on the same page and we'll be happy to discuss how you can see the obvious proof.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/25717/25717-h/25717-h.htm

Not-so-enlightening.
 
WHY do you keep repeating this nonsense? WHAT is your PROBLEM with FACTS?????

The menorah had 7 oil lamps in ancient times, and it still has SEVEN today. Modern menorot have either 7 oil lamps or 7 candles, but it is STILL SEVEN!!!!!

After the hanukkah story, a hanukkah menorah (lamp) was/is used for HANUKKAH which has 9 lights, one each for the 8 nights of hannukah, plus the shamash (helper) which is used to light the other 8.

The 7-branch menorah is STILL in use AS WELL AS the 9 light hanukkah lamp.

They are NOT the SAME THING!

They are both in use and DISTINCT!!!

NO jews get one confused with the other.

I have posted this SEVERAL TIMES!!

Get

It

Through

Your

Head


I have explained this FALSE statement to you SEVERAL TIMES!

GET

IT

THROUGH

YOUR

HEAD

First you kept claiming it was "worshipped" and got snarky when I told you it was not, and you kept claiming it was.

Now you claim it "doesn't sound sacred at all".

Which is it, oh wise one???

A lamp is NOT a candle, GET THAT THROUGH your IGNORANCE.

If it WAS sacred, why the hell did the lamps turn to candles!?

Where did the hanukka lamp or candle holder come from, if not an evolution FROM the menorah?

Is there ANOTHER pattern on another mount that the 8, 9, or 15 candle holder came from?

Maybe you could look into dichotomy's...it is the ability to hold TWO thoughts in your head at the same time.

YES, Jewish people worship a "meaningless" object. As proof of its meaningless, I have presented the FACT that the 'object' to be "worshipped" has changed. Lamps to candle holders, 7, "because some wanted to use it outside the temple, they ADDED lights" became 8, 9, or 15. That is some poop-poor worshipping if you ask me.

Lastly, don't take that tone with me, again.

I don't appreciate it, and there is no need to be nasty.
 
And so are you. What you are not entitled to do is claim that your beliefs are facts.

I agree with Zivans reply above.

Pictures of ruins at the bottom of the Atlantic, are NOT 'beliefs'...

Lamps are NOT candles. Refusing to recognize that this is a 'changed' symbol is YOUR problem, not mine.
 
Pictures of ruins at the bottom of the Atlantic, are NOT 'beliefs'...

Lamps are NOT candles. Refusing to recognize that this is a 'changed' symbol is YOUR problem, not mine.

Yeah, right... And all those Christians wearing a silver crucifix pendant should acknowledge that jesus wasn't a tiny silver man hanging from a tiny silver cross. They obviously changed the symbol because of werewolves. :rolleyes:
 

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