The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 24

[Stacyhs]

There are definitely a few of the PGP that worries me but I think Rhodes is close to the top if not the top of that list. BR Mull also use to concern me but I think he gave up on this and moved on a few years ago.

Perhaps Mull's therapy helped. Last I heard he was allowed to practice medicine again, but only under supervision by another physician.

 

[acbytesla]

Perhaps Mull's therapy helped. Last I heard he was allowed to practice medicine again, but only under supervision by another physician.

That's good. You hate to think about that education going to waste.

 

[Stacyhs]

Er, you have read Amanda's own confessions? You do know blood dries within apx 30", so to be able to wash it off, you need to have been in contact.

Amanda described the scream, which was corroborated by Rudy and three independent witnesses (neighbours). Raff was totally unable to account for hers or his movements during that time. Both had turned off their phones in advance. The first call Amanda made when she turned on her phone was to Mez' disposed of phone.

Everything points to Amanda and Raff knowing in advance Mez' body lay behind the locked door. And how would they know....ah!

Amanda did not volunteer the "scream" in her so-called "confession":

CP:On the evening of November 1, did you hear Meredith scream?

AK:No.

(conversation re admissibility of "confession" left out)


CP:Signorina Amanda, listen. On the evening of November 1, 2007, did you hear Meredith, poor Meredith, scream?

AK:No.

CP:In the interrogation of November 6, 2007, at 5:45, you declared that before she died, you heard Meredith scream. How could you know that Meredith screamed before she was killed? Who told you?

AK:So when I was with the police, they asked if I heard Meredith's scream. I said no. They said "But if you were there, how could you not hear her scream? If you were there?" I said "Look, I don't know, maybe I had my ears covered." So they said "Fine, we'll write that down. Fine."


CP:louder] But I can tell you that on November 6, the police did not know that Meredith screamed before she died, so why would they suggest it to you?

AK:I imagine that maybe they were imagining how it might have been.

Is it probable Meredith screamed? I think it is very likely. For the police to assume this does not take a stretch of the imagination. But what does take some imagination is to believe that a hard of hearing woman (NC) in an apartment well above the cottage and across the street could hear that scream through her own closed, double-paned windows and through the cottage's thick stone walls and closed window on the opposite side from NC's apartment. Strangely, no one else in her building claimed to hear that scream. But more strangely, NC also claimed to have been told about the murder the next morning and to have seen newspaper headlines about it before the murder was even discovered. She also claimed to have seen the names of Sollecito, Knox, Guede and Lumumba on posters on Nov 3.
Shades of Curatolo!

Even more interesting is that an audiometric test done by a BBC program in an apartment directly above NC's apartment showed it was impossible for her to have heard a scream that night.

 

[Numbers]

Amanda did not volunteer the "scream" in her so-called "confession":

CP:On the evening of November 1, did you hear Meredith scream?

AK:No.

(conversation re admissibility of "confession" left out)


CP:Signorina Amanda, listen. On the evening of November 1, 2007, did you hear Meredith, poor Meredith, scream?

AK:No.

CP:In the interrogation of November 6, 2007, at 5:45, you declared that before she died, you heard Meredith scream. How could you know that Meredith screamed before she was killed? Who told you?

AK:So when I was with the police, they asked if I heard Meredith's scream. I said no. They said "But if you were there, how could you not hear her scream? If you were there?" I said "Look, I don't know, maybe I had my ears covered." So they said "Fine, we'll write that down. Fine."


CP:louder] But I can tell you that on November 6, the police did not know that Meredith screamed before she died, so why would they suggest it to you?

AK:I imagine that maybe they were imagining how it might have been.

Is it probable Meredith screamed? I think it is very likely. For the police to assume this does not take a stretch of the imagination. But what does take some imagination is to believe that a hard of hearing woman (NC) in an apartment well above the cottage and across the street could hear that scream through her own closed, double-paned windows and through the cottage's thick stone walls and closed window on the opposite side from NC's apartment. Strangely, no one else in her building claimed to hear that scream. But more strangely, NC also claimed to have been told about the murder the next morning and to have seen newspaper headlines about it before the murder was even discovered. She also claimed to have seen the names of Sollecito, Knox, Guede and Lumumba on posters on Nov 3.
Shades of Curatolo!

Even more interesting is that an audiometric test done by a BBC program in an apartment directly above NC's apartment showed it was impossible for her to have heard a scream that night.

What's also important for the interrogation is that it has no credibility, as pointed out in Boninsegna's motivation report. It lacked start/stop times and lacked any documentation of the questions and answers.

 

[acbytesla]

Amanda did not volunteer the "scream" in her so-called "confession":

CP:On the evening of November 1, did you hear Meredith scream?

AK:No.

(conversation re admissibility of "confession" left out)


CP:Signorina Amanda, listen. On the evening of November 1, 2007, did you hear Meredith, poor Meredith, scream?

AK:No.

CP:In the interrogation of November 6, 2007, at 5:45, you declared that before she died, you heard Meredith scream. How could you know that Meredith screamed before she was killed? Who told you?

AK:So when I was with the police, they asked if I heard Meredith's scream. I said no. They said "But if you were there, how could you not hear her scream? If you were there?" I said "Look, I don't know, maybe I had my ears covered." So they said "Fine, we'll write that down. Fine."


CP:louder] But I can tell you that on November 6, the police did not know that Meredith screamed before she died, so why would they suggest it to you?

AK:I imagine that maybe they were imagining how it might have been.

Is it probable Meredith screamed? I think it is very likely. For the police to assume this does not take a stretch of the imagination. But what does take some imagination is to believe that a hard of hearing woman (NC) in an apartment well above the cottage and across the street could hear that scream through her own closed, double-paned windows and through the cottage's thick stone walls and closed window on the opposite side from NC's apartment. Strangely, no one else in her building claimed to hear that scream. But more strangely, NC also claimed to have been told about the murder the next morning and to have seen newspaper headlines about it before the murder was even discovered. She also claimed to have seen the names of Sollecito, Knox, Guede and Lumumba on posters on Nov 3.
Shades of Curatolo!

Even more interesting is that an audiometric test done by a BBC program in an apartment directly above NC's apartment showed it was impossible for her to have heard a scream that night.

I think we all naturally imagine that someone would scream if they were stabbed. But in actuality, I really doubt that it would even most of the time elicit some loud scream. You have proven again where Vixen has posted something that is demonstrably false.

The question I have is how Vixen will react? Will she say, 'my mistake, I was wrong'?

 

[acbytesla]

What's also important for the interrogation is that it has no credibility, as pointed out in Boninsegna's motivation report. It lacked start/stop times and lacked any documentation of the questions and answers.

Isn't that interesting? The professionalism just flew out the window.

 

[Numbers]

An excellent question!

First, what does the symbol ["] mean in Vixen's post? And where is the information on the environmental factors, such as humidity and temperature, that influence the drying of blood or any aqueous suspension? And where's the citations?

Vixen has provided a meaningless post without context.

[SNIP]

Blood dries within 30"? Huh? 30 inches? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

Amanda didn't describe a scream and only one neighbor said she heard a scream. One that would have been physically impossible to hear. Who were the two others Vixen?

Absolutely nuthin points to Amanda or Raffaele knowing that Meredith's (not Mez's) body lay behind the locked door.

Edited by kmortis: 

Removed to comply with Rule 12 & Rule 0

The symbol ["] was obviously a typo. It was meant to be [l.y.], for 'light years', which according to some is a measure of time*.

The lack of references in the post leads me to believe that Vixen conducted her own research on drying blood to obtain the result.

* In this somewhat controversial way of measuring time, the "light year" is shorter than the "heavy year" by a factor determined by whatever one wishes.

 

[Planigale]

Amanda did not volunteer the "scream" in her so-called "confession":

CP:On the evening of November 1, did you hear Meredith scream?

AK:No.

(conversation re admissibility of "confession" left out)


CP:Signorina Amanda, listen. On the evening of November 1, 2007, did you hear Meredith, poor Meredith, scream?

AK:No.

CP:In the interrogation of November 6, 2007, at 5:45, you declared that before she died, you heard Meredith scream. How could you know that Meredith screamed before she was killed? Who told you?

AK:So when I was with the police, they asked if I heard Meredith's scream. I said no. They said "But if you were there, how could you not hear her scream? If you were there?" I said "Look, I don't know, maybe I had my ears covered." So they said "Fine, we'll write that down. Fine."


CP:louder] But I can tell you that on November 6, the police did not know that Meredith screamed before she died, so why would they suggest it to you?

AK:I imagine that maybe they were imagining how it might have been.

Is it probable Meredith screamed? I think it is very likely. For the police to assume this does not take a stretch of the imagination. But what does take some imagination is to believe that a hard of hearing woman (NC) in an apartment well above the cottage and across the street could hear that scream through her own closed, double-paned windows and through the cottage's thick stone walls and closed window on the opposite side from NC's apartment. Strangely, no one else in her building claimed to hear that scream. But more strangely, NC also claimed to have been told about the murder the next morning and to have seen newspaper headlines about it before the murder was even discovered. She also claimed to have seen the names of Sollecito, Knox, Guede and Lumumba on posters on Nov 3.
Shades of Curatolo!

Even more interesting is that an audiometric test done by a BBC program in an apartment directly above NC's apartment showed it was impossible for her to have heard a scream that night.

So even though Knox repeatedly says she did not hear a scream when the police said she must have done, the prosecution claims the scream that Knox did not hear proves she was there. Then that scream that Knox did not hear is interpreted by the police to be the same as the scream that the deaf woman heard, even though the time when she heard it would have been after the evidence says the victim was dead. This scream that the deaf woman heard at the wrong time is then used to prove that the scream that Knox did not hear was the scream that the victim gave when she was killed therefore proving that Knox was present when the murder happened. The beauty of Italian legal logic!

The curious thing is that since the police knew there was a scream before it was reported by any of the witnesses, they must have been present at the time of the murder. This is clearly a cover up. Where are AC12 when you need them? (For non UK readers http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00yzlr0)

 

[Planigale]

The symbol ["] was obviously a typo. It was meant to be [l.y.], for 'light years', which according to some is a measure of time*.

The lack of references in the post leads me to believe that Vixen conducted her own research on drying blood to obtain the result.

* In this somewhat controversial way of measuring time, the "light year" is shorter than the "heavy year" by a factor determined by whatever one wishes.

Since according to the general theory of relativity gravity distorts space time of course 'heavy years' are longer than 'light years', don't try to be smart when physicists are around!

 

[whoanellie]

An excellent question!

First, what does the symbol ["] mean in Vixen's post? And where is the information on the environmental factors, such as humidity and temperature, that influence the drying of blood or any aqueous suspension? And where's the citations?

Vixen has provided a meaningless post without context.

'' can mean seconds. Blood dries within 30 seconds? If it does how did Amanda ever track all those bloody footprints all over the place?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_(symbol)

 

[Numbers]

'' can mean seconds. Blood dries within 30 seconds? If it does how did Amanda ever track all those bloody footprints all over the place?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_(symbol)

Yes, it is known by many, including myself, that ["] can mean inches or seconds as generally used. However, blood at room temperature (20 C) and typical humidity does not dry in 30 seconds. The time required for blood to dry under those conditions is about 60 minutes (1 hour). And I have a reference:

"How long does it take for blood to dry?
A:
Quick Answer

A study published in the International Journal of Legal Medicine reported that a blood drop on a hard surface in a typical indoor setting at 20 degrees Celsius is completely dry in 60 minutes. Increasing the temperature to 24 degrees Celsius reduces the drying time to only 30 minutes."

Source: https://www.reference.com/science/long-blood-dry-77b16b8edc3d35f1

"Int J Legal Med. 2012 Sep;126(5):739-46. doi: 10.1007/s00414-012-0734-2. Epub 2012 Jun 30.
Drying properties of bloodstains on common indoor surfaces.
Ramsthaler F1, Schmidt P, Bux R, Potente S, Kaiser C, Kettner M.

Abstract

When blood reaches an extracorporeal surface, a drying process is initiated. Properties of this drying process may be crucial for the correct assessment of case-specific time lapses, however, there is a lack of systematic studies concerning the drying times of blood. We present a study on drying properties of small blood droplets with a standardized size of 25 μl (resembling droplets originating from pointed and sharp objects, e.g. the tip of a knife) under different environmental conditions to elucidate the effect of different ambient temperatures, indoor surfaces and anticoagulant treatment. As a rule of thumb, wiping a typical small blood droplet will not lead to a macroscopically visible smear after a time period of approximately 60 min (time(min) = 45 min; time(max) = 75 min) at an average room temperature of 20 °C. Alteration of the ambient temperature has a remarkable effect, as the time needed for the drying process leading to wipe resistance of the droplets decreases to 30 min (time(min)) at an ambient temperature of 24 °C, and is prolonged up to >120 min (time(max)) at an ambient temperature of 15 °C. As for the surface materials in our study, significant differences in drying periods were only found between wood and linoleum (80th percentile 45 vs. 75 min). Treatment with anticoagulants did not influence extracorporeal drying times. In synopsis, the present study shows that ambient temperature is a major determinant of the drying process of blood droplets and should always be documented accurately and continuously on a crime scene. In certain situations, an estimation of the time elapsed since bloodstain origination may be of importance to answer questions related to the time course of actions. However, further systematic studies are needed to clarify the effect of other properties such as droplet size, humidity, or evaporation."

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22752750
___
I leave it up to the objective readers of these posts to determine what, if anything, Vixen's post meant.

And one must remember, that Knox was by her statements when not under police coercion NOT in the cottage at the time of the murder of Kercher.

Guede was in the cottage at the time of the murder, according to his own admission, and the police suppressed information on the DNA content of blood stains and a purported (presumed) semen deposit, which may have further confirmed his solo involvement in the murder/rape of Kercher.

 

[Vixen]

Exactly Marasca-Bruno's point. They said the largest judicial **error** Nencini committed was implying that nailing down TOD was not important. It made for a sliding-TOD depending on what other pseudo-evidence one was trying to slide into a timeline.

As the perps delayed the body being found for >15 hours, it was not possible to ascertain exact time of death.

I wonder who could have locked Mez' door and only became 'worried' way past midday next day, and who could be the only person who knew (a) her rent was due and (b) that she had two phones.

 

[Vixen]

An excellent question!

First, what does the symbol ["] mean in Vixen's post? And where is the information on the environmental factors, such as humidity and temperature, that influence the drying of blood or any aqueous suspension? And where's the citations?

Vixen has provided a meaningless post without context.

I thought this was common knowledge, but evidently not.

 

[Vixen]

What evidence of this do you have? If this is true, you can bet TJMK would have a copy of this tweet and display it prominently. Provide it.




Again, what evidence of this do you have? You have provided none.



I am not defending anyone. I am countering your accusations which are unsupported by evidence.
Accusations are easy to make but much harder to support with evidence. Frankly, you make false accusations all the time as we have seen on ISF.




That has nothing to do with this particular alleged incident.



I am not sure why you inferred that. I don't think you have any control over him. I doubt Rhodes has much control over himself.

As for the "For the Press" attachment, exactly where does this come from? TJMK? If so, it has zero credibility for accuracy.

No, it comes from here (scroll down the page to 15 Oct 2016):

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page

I will not be attaching copies from the tv show which Papa Raff presented as 'entertainment' directly from the court files, and which your friend salaciously misused in a malicious campaign against the victim's family.

 

[Bill Williams]

As the perps delayed the body being found for >15 hours, it was not possible to ascertain exact time of death.

So many mistruths in one short post.

AK and RS were the ones who summoned everyone to the cottage on the loate morning of Nov 2. However it is refreshing that you accept a 9 pm, Nov 1 TOD. You're more narrow in this than Nencini, who was ruled as "judicially wrong" to say that ascertaining TOD was not that crucial.

But your biggest error? It was Mignini who did not allow body temperature to be taken in the early afternoon of Nov 2. From Nathaniel Rich, who interviewed Mignini:

When I ask Mignini whether he regrets any decisions he made during the Kercher case, he will name only one. It was the very first decision that he made. When he arrived at the crime scene he asked the chief forensics expert, Patrizia Stefanoni, whether she had taken Kercher's body temperature, a reliable indicator of time of death. Stefanoni, Mignini says, was worried that doing so might contaminate the body and advised that they wait until other testing had been done. The temperature was not taken until November 3rd, at which point the death was set between 8 p.m. and 4 a.m. The failure to make a more exact estimation proved critical. If Kercher died before 9:30 p.m., Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito would have had an alibi: They were seen at Sollecito's apartment at 8:45, and Sollecito's computer showed activity as late as 9:10.​

So - is the "perps delayed the body being found for >15 hours, it was not possible to ascertain exact time of death" claim simply another invention of yours?

I wonder who could have locked Mez' Meredith's door and only became 'worried' way past midday next day, and who could be the only person who knew (a) her rent was due and (b) that she had two phones.

LOL! Ah, er, everyone who lived there? Are you accusing Laura and Filomena now?

 

[Vixen]

There are definitely a few of the PGP that worries me but I think Rhodes is close to the top if not the top of that list. BR Mull also use to concern me but I think he gave up on this and moved on a few years ago.

How interesting acbytesla supports a vulture who peddles autopsy pictures of a murder victim and taunts the victim's family with them, not to mention Amanda & Raff themselves, yet he can work himself up into faux outrage about some post that Stacyhs and her friends slaver over and have saved since 2015.

He has no criticism of Amanda cunningly getting her kind boss locked up in jail to deflect from herself. The seriousness of this crime can be seen in the long prison sentence of three years. A sentence given to hardened criminals.

I wonder how Amanda can look the majority African-American 'exonerees' (some will be genuinely innocent, others not) in the face, at her round of Innocence Conferences and do funky chicken dances with them, whilst having maliciously pinned a murder and rape on her African Congolese boss and having him wrongfully jailed, sadly, a major reason why so many of them were wrongly convicted themselves, some even lynched.


(Cue a volley of delusional posts claiming 'it wuz the police what made her do it'. Together with a stream of profanities, no doubt.)

Give us a break.

 

[Vixen]

I too have followed the relative position of Italy with respect to the number of cases or applications pending before the ECHR. Italy had been in fourth highest about two years ago; it is most recently (28 Feb 2017) sixth highest. The change is due to some decrease in the number of cases against Italy, but also a striking increase in cases against Hungary and Romania, which are now in 3rd and 4th place, respectively. Ukraine is in 1st place, with 18,850 cases; this may be due in part to the civil war there.

You omitted to mention USA named by Amnesty International as SECOND only to cruel, cruel China, (where you can be executed for tax evasion and dogs rounded up for dog-eating festivals annually!!!) in Human Rights re the death penalty.

Some state in the USA I hear is having an execution-fest to clear up its Death Row backlog. It's hard to feel sorry for some of these unfortunates, I know, but please do not claim Italy is worse than the US.

 

[Vixen]

Amanda did not volunteer the "scream" in her so-called "confession":

CP:On the evening of November 1, did you hear Meredith scream?

AK:No.

(conversation re admissibility of "confession" left out)


CP:Signorina Amanda, listen. On the evening of November 1, 2007, did you hear Meredith, poor Meredith, scream?

AK:No.

CP:In the interrogation of November 6, 2007, at 5:45, you declared that before she died, you heard Meredith scream. How could you know that Meredith screamed before she was killed? Who told you?

AK:So when I was with the police, they asked if I heard Meredith's scream. I said no. They said "But if you were there, how could you not hear her scream? If you were there?" I said "Look, I don't know, maybe I had my ears covered." So they said "Fine, we'll write that down. Fine."


CP:louder] But I can tell you that on November 6, the police did not know that Meredith screamed before she died, so why would they suggest it to you?

AK:I imagine that maybe they were imagining how it might have been.

Is it probable Meredith screamed? I think it is very likely. For the police to assume this does not take a stretch of the imagination. But what does take some imagination is to believe that a hard of hearing woman (NC) in an apartment well above the cottage and across the street could hear that scream through her own closed, double-paned windows and through the cottage's thick stone walls and closed window on the opposite side from NC's apartment. Strangely, no one else in her building claimed to hear that scream. But more strangely, NC also claimed to have been told about the murder the next morning and to have seen newspaper headlines about it before the murder was even discovered. She also claimed to have seen the names of Sollecito, Knox, Guede and Lumumba on posters on Nov 3.
Shades of Curatolo!

Even more interesting is that an audiometric test done by a BBC program in an apartment directly above NC's apartment showed it was impossible for her to have heard a scream that night.

Says mountebank revisionist, Stacyhs.

 

[Vixen]

'' can mean seconds. Blood dries within 30 seconds? If it does how did Amanda ever track all those bloody footprints all over the place?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_(symbol)

' = hours

" = minutes

 

[Planigale]

How interesting acbytesla supports a vulture who peddles autopsy pictures of a murder victim and taunts the victim's family with them, not to mention Amanda & Raff themselves, yet he can work himself up into faux outrage about some post that Stacyhs and her friends slaver over and have saved since 2015.

He has no criticism of Amanda cunningly getting her kind boss locked up in jail to deflect from herself. The seriousness of this crime can be seen in the long prison sentence of three years. A sentence given to hardened criminals.

I wonder how Amanda can look the majority African-American 'exonerees' (some will be genuinely innocent, others not) in the face, at her round of Innocence Conferences and do funky chicken dances with them, whilst having maliciously pinned a murder and rape on her African Congolese boss and having him wrongfully jailed, sadly, a major reason why so many of them were wrongly convicted themselves, some even lynched.


(Cue a volley of delusional posts claiming 'it wuz the police what made her do it'. Together with a stream of profanities, no doubt.)

Give us a break.

There is considerable literature in moral philosophy about responsibility of people made to do things by external forces. Do you really believe that the Perugia police force were forced to act by a young foreign woman in jail? That somehow all autonomy was lost? Perhaps you should review the 'Nuremburg' defence.

The responsibility for detaining Diya Lumumba is that of the police. They are the experts in assessing evidence. They are the ones who obtained the statement.