Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Touché. I see you are a formidable opponent, BiWi.
ETA: I take this back - see below.
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The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 24
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Touché. I see you are a formidable opponent, BiWi.
ETA: I take this back - see below.
TruthCalls
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Definition of exonerate: "to clear, as of an accusation; free from guilt or blame" - They were exonerated.
It wasn't "qualified"... Marasca ruled NO evidence of their involvement.
It is only generally accepted amongst the few die-hard guilters... oh, I'm sorry... PGP. And, as usual, you make these claims with zero evidence to support it.
And no, I would think after spending 4 years in prison and having been the target of a vile hate campaign of people such as yourself and your fellow PMF/TJMK/TMoMK, I would very much be looking for compensation. Amanda hasn't made a request, Raffaele's request was per Italy's guidelines, so hardly unreasonable. Amanda has decided to be an advocate for others who are wrongfully convicted - a very noble cause indeed.
"unfair acquittal"? In the eyes of a few PGP, perhaps. $5K speaking fee... I see you just can't let go of the lies.
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TruthCalls
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Um, because she IS a victim of a wrongful conviction. She's now putting the notoriety to good use.
TruthCalls
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Amazing, I asked for an explanation of how the three traces in Amanda's room could be Meredith's blood and you give me this nonsense. Nothing you just posted even begins to try to explain how it could be.
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
You really do just pull this stuff out of your lower colon, don't you? Pro-bono does not mean "free advocacy". "A lawyer's free legal service to these types of clients is designated as pro bono service." (Legal Dictionary)
Your claim that "whilst they might claim to be pro-bono, really mean 'contingency fee' or 'no win/no fee'" is a great example of an assfact. You cannot provide a shred of evidence for this but that doesn't stop you from just throwing it out. It doesn't work.
No, I don't believe you because what you claimed is patently false. Not only does she do many pro-bono cases, most of her clients are not well-known or only became so AFTER their exonerations. You obviously did not do your homework before posting your falsehoods.
"Because of the odds against getting a conviction reversed and the incredible amount of work involved, few lawyers will take a case like Ferguson's, certainly not pro bono.* Kathleen Zellner, a civil rights attorney with a reputation as a fighter, did both.* Last week, Ferguson became her 15th wrongfully convicted client to walk out of prison." (CBS News)
"Since Zellner began her law firm in January 1991, she has obtained the exoneration of 18 wrongfully convicted men, handling many of these cases pro bono" (Wikipedia)
" In addition, her firm has provided $1 million in pro bono hours and expenses to clients in the past two years. (Chicago Lawyer Magazine)
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
Once again, since you seemed to have missed this point the first time, she is invited to speak as a MURDER exoneree which she is.
Sigh. What a ridiculous statement. When you spout such nonsense, it does nothing to help your credibility. I suggest you stop it.
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
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Well......... I don't know if it's this Kington piece for The Guardian (or "THE GUARDIAN"..????) that Vixen is referring to (note too that this article was actually published under the banner of The Guardian's sister Sunday title, The Observer):
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/22/italy.internationalcrime
....but if it is, then - somewhat unsurprisingly - what's actually written (and, for that matter, even implied) is, ahem, different from the interpretation chosen by one particular partisan pro-guilt commentator.
The salient paragraphs from that article are as follows:
Police tapping the phones of the father of Italian student Raffaele Sollecito overheard discussions that appeared to suggest plans being made to get senior politicians to use their influence and get detectives whom the Sollecitos considered hostile taken off the case. The phone tap information is in files handed over to lawyers as magistrate Giuliano Mignini officially completed the investigation into the strangling and stabbing of Kercher, from Surrey, who was found on 2 November semi-naked in a pool of blood in her bedroom in Perugia.
'We've got to flay the Perugia flying squad,' a family member was overheard saying, according to the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera. 'If we can get rid of the head of homicide and that other one, we'll be OK.'
Relatives of Sollecito, including his sister, a policewoman, were also overheard discussing politicians who could help their case. Giulia Buongiorno, a lawyer and MP in Silvio Berlusconi's ruling coalition, has now been retained to represent Sollecito. 'She can help out on this case at a political level,' Sollecito's father was overheard saying.
Now. Where to start? OK:
1) Nowhere in this article are mentioned any clear intentions to commit any unlawful acts (note in this respect that nobody from Sollecito's family was ever prosecuted for conspiracy to corrupt etc - funny, that, isn't it???).
2) The quoted words in the second paragraph above are attributed to an unnamed member of Sollecito's family - not to his father.
3) The only part of the article mentioning Sollecito's father specifically in respect of influencing the case is where he's quoted as saying "She (Bongiorno) can help out on this case at a political level". Again, this in no way whatsoever implies intent to break the law or corrupt the judicial process. And again, it's obviously worth remembering that Sollecito's father was never prosecuted for any unlawful activities (and criminal intent is still a crime, even if the intent is never realised).
4) This Kington article appears to be requoting material from Corriere della Sera (or "CORRIERE DELLA SERA"....????), which in turn is almost certainly (as per the tenor of the piece) repeating information given by Mignini or a senior police official. And we all know what they're capable of, don't we....
5) Kington (and The Observer/("THE OBSERVER"....????)) would therefore, in any case, feel strong legal protection, since they were re-reporting something which had originally appeared in another published newspaper, and which appears to come directly from an authority source.
But apart from all of that........ it's yet another fine, fine piece of interpretation and presentation of the facts from the pro-guilt perspective
LondonJohn
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Knox cannot currently apply for compensation, owing to the artful conversion of her time served into the exact length of the sentence finally given to her for the criminal slander conviction.
But as and when the ECHR rules in Knox's favour, and consequently Italy has no choice but to quash the criminal slander conviction without the possibility of retrial, I suspect it's pretty likely that Knox will apply for compensation. She may first need to wait for Sollecito to go through his own ECHR process in respect of his own 5th/6th November interrogation (if, that is, he loses his appeal against his own compensation claim), but hopefully Italy will eventually be forced to fully confront the injustice done at so many levels in this case and apply fair compensation throughout (though I still have very little faith indeed that the likes of Mignini, Giobbi et al will ever be held properly accountable for their actions in this case....).
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
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So why'd you try to get your malarky past this thread?
The bit about Boninsegna using "exonerated" as only..... "He is ipso facto using a vernacular and not a legal term".....
..... was simply another of your inventions, wasn't it.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
You cheated there; you used Amanda's translation.
The actual translation is:
The Italian for 'exonerated' is 'l'esonero'.
Show us where in Boninsegna it says 'l'esonero'.
Nice try, BiWi. Hoots!
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Heh, see above. Why did you try to get your malarkey past this thread?
I guess the only way to present the pair as innocent is to lie and cheat.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Where did Zellner get her $millions in revenues, then?
Ferguson was not 'exonerated', he had his conviction vacated, because one of the witnesses at the original trial was pressurised to withdrew their statement. Ferguson's co-defendant confessed to their committing the crime. A juror who was present for the full trial and saw and heard all of the evidence, remains 100% certain of his guilt.
When you say she does it all 'pro bono', I suspect a massive porky pie. All US attorneys are obliged to do 50 hour pa pro bono, but I doubt Zellner does it for any other reason than to line her own pockets.
Fair enough, but not if it robs the families of the victims of crime of justice.
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Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
No, she is not exonerated. The ruling is 'insufficient evidence', or 'not proven'.
While there are a number of questionable statements in the quoted post, the most obvious absurdity is attributing an age of 18 years to law students. One can only wonder at whether this reflects an ignorance of the admissions criteria for law students in Canada or an intentional misstatement to support an otherwise bizarre claim.
In Canada, as in the US, admission to law school generally requires, among other qualifications, an undergraduate (4 year college) degree. (That is the same level of education which in Italy traditionally entitles one to be called "doctor".)
Undergraduates in Canada typically begin their college education at about age 18. Thus, beginning law school students are generally about 22 years of age or more.
And what law students would learn from Amanda Knox's history of wrongful conviction is how official misconduct can harm the innocent while obstructing the course of justice for the guilty.
"Currently, law schools can be very selective about whom they admit into their programs. Demand for legal education in Canada has continued to be high in recent years. ....
Academic Record
Undergraduate performance generally is an important indicator of how someone is likely to perform in law school. Hence, many law schools look closely at university grades when considering individual applications. Course selection also can make a difference in admission evaluations. Applicants who have taken difficult or advanced courses in their undergraduate study often are evaluated in a more favorable light than students who have concentrated on less difficult or less advanced subjects...."
Source: http://www.lsac.org/jd/choosing-a-law-school/canadian/law-schools-select-applicants
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toto
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You cheated there; you used Amanda's translation.
The actual translation is:
The Italian for 'exonerated' is 'l'esonero'.
Show us where in Boninsegna it says 'l'esonero'.
Nice try, BiWi. Hoots!
As in "acquit
VERB
free (someone) from a criminal charge by a verdict of not guilty:
"she was acquitted on all counts" · [More]
synonyms: absolve · clear · exonerate · exculpate "?
toto
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(didn't commit the act)
"Barry Scheck and Yusef Salaam Urge New York Lawmakers to Pass Recorded Interrogations Legislation
Innocence Project Co-Founder Barry Scheck and Yusef Salaam of the Central Park Five sat down with PIX11 News on Tuesday to discuss proposed reforms which intend to prevent wrongful convictions in New York.
The budget, which is currently before the state legislature, includes provisions which would require police to video record all custodial interrogations of suspects in major crimes and eyewitness identification best practices.
Salaam was wrongfully convicted of the notorious 1989 Central Park jogger rape case, along with Raymond Santana, Kevin Richardson, Korey Wise and Antron McCray after his codefendants falsely confessed to the crime after hours of interrogation by police. Their confessions were recorded, but the many hours of coercive interrogation that led up to the confession were not.
“When officers get in the room with suspects, we want to show juries everything that happens,” Salaam told PIX11 News. ...."
Source: https://www.innocenceproject.org/barry-scheck-yusef-salaam-tout-ny-reform-provisions/
The problem of coerced false confessions and statements is not confined to Italy. Vixen falsely claims the Innocence Project and its lawyers, such as Barry Scheck, engage in "innocence fraud" for financial gain. The truth is that the Innocent Project lawyers work pro bono to assist the wrongfully convicted and a major part of the Innocence Project effort is working to achieve reform of police and judicial procedures to prevent future wrongful convictions.
Innocence Project Co-Founder Barry Scheck and Yusef Salaam of the Central Park Five sat down with PIX11 News on Tuesday to discuss proposed reforms which intend to prevent wrongful convictions in New York.
The budget, which is currently before the state legislature, includes provisions which would require police to video record all custodial interrogations of suspects in major crimes and eyewitness identification best practices.
Salaam was wrongfully convicted of the notorious 1989 Central Park jogger rape case, along with Raymond Santana, Kevin Richardson, Korey Wise and Antron McCray after his codefendants falsely confessed to the crime after hours of interrogation by police. Their confessions were recorded, but the many hours of coercive interrogation that led up to the confession were not.
“When officers get in the room with suspects, we want to show juries everything that happens,” Salaam told PIX11 News. ...."
Source: https://www.innocenceproject.org/barry-scheck-yusef-salaam-tout-ny-reform-provisions/
The problem of coerced false confessions and statements is not confined to Italy. Vixen falsely claims the Innocence Project and its lawyers, such as Barry Scheck, engage in "innocence fraud" for financial gain. The truth is that the Innocent Project lawyers work pro bono to assist the wrongfully convicted and a major part of the Innocence Project effort is working to achieve reform of police and judicial procedures to prevent future wrongful convictions.
Whilst I appreciate your posts in general. This unfortunately represents the tendency of Americans to believe all advances were done by Americans. The first use of DNA profiling in a criminal investigation anywhere in the world was by Prof. Jeffries from Leicester University UK. It resulted in the first exoneration, Richard Buckland, with the police accepting the result of this novel technique and notifying his lawyer of exonerating evidence.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Do you have any evidence of of this? I see. We have Amanda's word for it. Riiiight.
Steffanoni specifically testified that the source of the DNA cannot be known. Can you provide any testimony contrary from Garofano? Remember he retired before DNA techniques came into use so would have had no experience in using them and certainly could not be regarded as experienced as Steffanoni.
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