“This is what tolerance looks like at UC Berkeley”

[Stout]

Oh, I linked reporting from the LA Times upthread, who also reported that pro-Trump marchers were the aggressors. and had attacked a photographer and journalist for the day's first violence.



Indeed, actually sounds like a bit of bias in the reporting, some clear anti-Trump vibe there. The Times seemed more objective.

Yes, I read the LA Times, with their annoying whitelist demands, but hey, at least now I know where to buy groceries should I ever find myself in Los Angeles and in need of groceries, article. It's just one source though and why it should be given priority over any other in a source of puzzlement. As long as we dismiss the wacko sites like WSWS of WND then I think we have several sources of info. This story is still developing in the media. This might be the last day, who knows ?

I posted that link to show that the wall was actually built. The story was written by the guy who got shoved just before the pepper spray ( in whatever video that was ) and he, an antifa sympathizer, was admitting to the wall. The wall happened.

 

[Thermal]

Are you relying on "legislation" to support your claim that someone can initiate a physical confrontation such as blocking a legal permitted March, and then after initiating that physical confrontation, claim that they are entitled to assert self defense?

Answer: no you don't.

You're bobbing and weaving. Self-defense laws generally require the defender to believe they reasonably believe they are in imminent danger of bodily harm. Blocking someones way is indeed confrontational, but I don't see how it meets the standard for your oft-repeated assertion of 'initiating physical confrontation'.

It is bizarre, have you never had anyone belligerently block your way?

Of course I have. And I understood that although they were trying to provoke me, they were not initiating physical violence and I would be the aggressor if I assaulted them, and they would be able to claim self-defense for retaliatory action.

I have and I can certainly understand why these black bloc asshats took a beating.

I hear ya. I agree with Meadmaker above, that they are wannabee anarchists who got in over their heads right pronto, faced with some genuinely violent marchers. On the academic point of whether or not they could hypothetically claim self-defense though, I maintain they could, if the marchers threw down first (the human wall was passive, not violent).

 

[Thermal]

Yes, I have. Did you even read one article even one where the black bloc scum admitted that they tried to stop the March? You have not? Stunning omission!

Strawman. I have read that they planned to do so, and have posted as much.

They are out there, do a bit of research.

Serious question: do you recall where? I have looked, and found one article with a pic of the 'wall' of black-masked guys...the caption attributed the photo to some guy named 'File Image'

 

[Thermal]

Yes, I read the LA Times, with their annoying whitelist demands, but hey, at least now I know where to buy groceries should I ever find myself in Los Angeles and in need of groceries, article. It's just one source though and why it should be given priority over any other in a source of puzzlement. As long as we dismiss the wacko sites like WSWS of WND then I think we have several sources of info. This story is still developing in the media. This might be the last day, who knows ?

I rely on the Times reporting a little more because it at least attempted objectivity. By contrast, OCWeekly captioned one of its photos of Trump supporters with 'There's the Losers!' That's maybe a smidge more biased than I prefer reporting to be.

I posted that link to show that the wall was actually built. The story was written by the guy who got shoved just before the pepper spray ( in whatever video that was ) and he, an antifa sympathizer, was admitting to the wall. The wall happened.

OCWeekly did claim the wall was built...and promptly mowed down by the marchers. Makes me think it was not particularly powerful or effective, and certainly not the menace it has been portrayed as. Sounds more like some knuckleheads who did not understand what they were getting into.

 

[Thermal]

Another reporting from The Mercury News, regarding the Menacing Wall of Doom:

At one point, about 10 organizers stood across the bike path, creating a human wall to stop the march. The marchers either pushed through or walked around them.

More confirmation that The Wall did happen...but was utterly inconsequential and apparently unrelated to the violence that the Trump supporters were filmed as delivering to the protesters...and photographers...and journalists...

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/25/huntington-beach-fight-breaks-out-at-pro-trump-rally/

 

[Stout]

OCWeekly did claim the wall was built...and promptly mowed down by the marchers. Makes me think it was not particularly powerful or effective, and certainly not the menace it has been portrayed as. Sounds more like some knuckleheads who did not understand what they were getting into.

Antifa was expecting hundreds of their members to show up and they pretty much had to go through with their wall building plans after announcing them in the media. All the other antifa groups would consider them wimps if they didn't.

These antifa guys are used to charging into neo-nazi rallies with strength of numbers on their side. and I guessing here that, most of the projected antifa protesters didn't show up because they realized that taking on middle America was a whole different ball game.

 

[The Big Dog]

Another reporting from The Mercury News, regarding the Menacing Wall of Doom:



More confirmation that The Wall did happen...but was utterly inconsequential and apparently unrelated to the violence that the Trump supporters were filmed as delivering to the protesters...and photographers...and journalists...

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/25/huntington-beach-fight-breaks-out-at-pro-trump-rally/

"journalists"? You mean the one who grabbed a flag out of a woman's hand, through it to the ground and stepped on it?

The Black bloc scum who physically tried to stop the march by intentionally blocking the marchers, thereby committing a battery upon them.

The "journalist" who inexplicably had a megaphone?

Seems like you have been had.

 

[Mycroft]

Good to know then, if you stand somewhere on a sidewalk you think it's pretty Ace for people to assault you because you are blocking their access to the bit of sidewalk under your feet. After all, it's not like the counter-protesters were blocking more than the bit of sidewalk under their feet, the marchers could've easily just gone around them to wherever they were heading.

How about linking arms with other people to keep undesirables out of businesses and public places?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Could the human wall be considered a legitimate form of protest to the march, symbolically resisting what the protesters see as the advancing of fascism?

Nobody is trying to "advance fascism". Seriously, this is up there with trying to define all employees as "wage slaves". It's inane and pointless absurdity, a vacuous appeal to emotion with no rational underpinnings.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Keep in mind- both sides are photographed as wearing masks, and the pro-Trump marchers are reported to have been the aggressors, beginning with attacking the journalists.

Source please.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I think that's why the counter-protests are so intense; there is a perception of a rabid mentality among some of the President's fans...and it really is scary at times.

And yet... we've repeatedly seen rabid action on the part of anti-Trump folks. It gets justified as being against the "rabid mentality" of Trump fans... but it seems to be the anti-Trump people actually taking action.

They've been taking physical action against perceived belief.

I'm not okay with that.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I rely on the Times reporting a little more because it at least attempted objectivity.

Are you certain it's not confirmation bias?

 

[Thermal]

Antifa was expecting hundreds of their members to show up and they pretty much had to go through with their wall building plans after announcing them in the media. All the other antifa groups would consider them wimps if they didn't.

These antifa guys are used to charging into neo-nazi rallies with strength of numbers on their side. and I guessing here that, most of the projected antifa protesters didn't show up because they realized that taking on middle America was a whole different ball game.

I really don't think that's the objective. Antifa have it out for fascists, neo-nazis, white supremacists and the like. While they may not like middle America's complacency, I don't think there is any actual beef with them. The Orange County protest likely didn't draw a big antifa crowd because there was no big fa presence to protest, just Trump groupies with a few masked men thrown in.

 

[Joe Random]

I really don't think that's the objective. Antifa have it out for fascists, neo-nazis, white supremacists and the like. <...>.

And Starbuck's, cars, windows, the rule of law, etc. ...

 

[Stout]

I really don't think that's the objective. Antifa have it out for fascists, neo-nazis, white supremacists and the like. While they may not like middle America's complacency, I don't think there is any actual beef with them. The Orange County protest likely didn't draw a big antifa crowd because there was no big fa presence to protest, just Trump groupies with a few masked men thrown in.

You may be right here but it makes you wonder why they even bothered to announce to the media that they were showing up in the first place.

 

[Jules Galen]

This continued violence by the Liberals, while interesting, is starting to become counter-productive. In most cases, violence only works in so far as the willingness to engage in violence can back off another party who would violence as a tool. After that...it's time to refrain from violence. In other words, violence should only be used as a self-defense measure (but this is not what I've seen lately!)

The Libs have made their point - they not going to be pushed around without immediate consequences. Good Enough. That's all they needed to do - now they need to stop the violence.

Now, it is up to the Liberals to get creative - if they can - and heap scorn and derision the right. Nobody escapes whole from scorn and derision.

 

[Thermal]

"journalists"? You mean the one who grabbed a flag out of a woman's hand, through it to the ground and stepped on it?

I mean OCWeekly photographer Brian Feinzimer, who grabbed the flag out of a womans's hand because she had just struck photographer Julie Leopo with it (that would be called disarming an attacker, FYI).

The Black bloc scum who physically tried to stop the march by intentionally blocking the marchers, thereby committing a battery upon them.

Battery, huh? The relevant jurisdiction is California, U.S.A. From the California Penal Code section 242, the definition of battery for your consideration:

242. A battery is any willful and unlawful use of force or violence upon the person of another.

The Mighty Wall^TM did not employ force or violence upon another; it is an obstruction. The marchers, however, are reported upthread as having shoved their way through it. Surprise, TBD: the marchers committed battery.

The "journalist" who inexplicably had a megaphone?

That was a protester. You couldn't possibly be confused on that.

Seems like you have been had.

Seems lke you forgot to read the articles and watch the video evidence. Specifically, the OCWeekly footage posted upthread: video clearly shows the whole exchange, including the infamous pepper spraying, which the protester sprayed while fighting off the Trump supporter, who was punching away. Take the blinders off and watch the video.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=242.

 

[Thermal]

Nobody is trying to "advance fascism". Seriously, this is up there with trying to define all employees as "wage slaves". It's inane and pointless absurdity, a vacuous appeal to emotion with no rational underpinnings.

So they are not entitled to their beliefs and political opinions, however screwy you may find them? Goodthink only, I guess.

 

[The Big Dog]

I mean OCWeekly photographer Brian Feinzimer, who grabbed the flag out of a womans's hand because she had just struck photographer Julie Leopo with it (that would be called disarming an attacker, FYI).



Battery, huh? The relevant jurisdiction is California, U.S.A. From the California Penal Code section 242, the definition of battery for your consideration:



The Mighty Wall^TM did not employ force or violence upon another; it is an obstruction. The marchers, however, are reported upthread as having shoved their way through it. Surprise, TBD: the marchers committed battery.



That was a protester. You couldn't possibly be confused on that.



Seems lke you forgot to read the articles and watch the video evidence. Specifically, the OCWeekly footage posted upthread: video clearly shows the whole exchange, including the infamous pepper spraying, which the protester sprayed while fighting off the Trump supporter, who was punching away. Take the blinders off and watch the video.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=242.

Just about everything you wrote was utterly wrong.

The fact that the black bloc scum wall was a fiasco of historic proportions does not mean the scum bags did not commit a battery on the lawful, legal protesters.

The journalist was not acting as a journalist, he assaulted a protester.

The asshat with the megaphone who took the beating was another "journalist."

Take the blinders off and watch the video. One of the scum stuck the chemical weapon right in the woman's face.

What a coward.

 

[Mumbles]

I really don't think that's the objective. Antifa have it out for fascists, neo-nazis, white supremacists and the like. While they may not like middle America's complacency, I don't think there is any actual beef with them. The Orange County protest likely didn't draw a big antifa crowd because there was no big fa presence to protest, just Trump groupies with a few masked men thrown in.

Uh...Orange County is infamous for white supremacy (regardless of what it's actually like - I've heard of it here on the east coast, but have no experience there). More likely, it's simply not their territory.

Well, whatever. Militant Trumpists versus Antifa is like a reverse Aliens vs. Predator. No matter who loses, we win.