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Getaway driver arrested for murder.

Noztradamus said:
I suspect that her three stooges did not have the ability to forsee anything.

Bad drug deal makes no sense at all. given the deceased wouldn't rule it out, but it is illogical.
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No bad drug deal? Why do you say that, even though I suspect that?

Thanks.
 
Jules Galen said:
No bad drug deal? Why do you say that, even though I suspect that?

Thanks.
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Who is the putative dealer? The homeowner/son? Customers showing up masked. Not a smart move.

The 3 guys drumming for the actual merchandise held by the lady dealer? (as no drugs found on the 3). Again showing up masked not smart.

Attempted drug ripoff? They aren't weaponised enough to attempt that.

I'll go with attempted breakin/robbery with intent to flee if home found occupied.
 
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Noztradamus said:
Who is the putative dealer? The homeowner/son? Customers showing up masked. Not a smart move.

The 3 guys drumming for the actual merchandise held by the lady dealer? (as no drugs found on the 3). Again showing up masked not smart.

Attempted drug ripoff? They aren't weaponised enough to attempt that.
I'll go with attempted breakin/robbery with intent to flee if home found occupied.
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Without 20-20 Hindsight, you couldn't know that!

Anyways, maybe it is...and maybe it ain't, We'll see.
 
Jules Galen said:
Lemme see...these guys show with weapons and in the middle of the day. seems like they had a target to me, they just didn't foresee the outside help with the AR-15.

This whole thing stinks like a bad drug deal...at least to me.
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I'm not really hip on the protocols for today's drug deals, but aren't they mostly simple business transactions that don't involve breaking into a home?

About 18 years ago, a farmer named Tony Martin was convicted of murder for killing two home invaders:
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My knowledge of the Tony Martin case is limited mostly to Wikipedia, but it seems that the courts looked at the surviving burglar and the getaway driver as more victims than career criminals who were involved in the death of a co-conspirator. The two surviving perps got off with only a few years in jail.
 
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Ranb said:
I'm not really hip on the protocols for today's drug deals, but aren't they mostly simple business transactions that don't involve breaking into a home?
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Well...unless someone steals from someone else.
 
Ranb said:
I'm not really hip on the protocols for today's drug deals, but aren't they mostly simple business transactions that don't involve breaking into a home?
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Yeah, that's usually reserved for either theft, or attacking the residents.
 
Jules Galen said:
Originally Posted by Noztradamus

Attempted drug ripoff? They aren't weaponised enough to attempt that.
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Without 20-20 Hindsight, you couldn't know that!

Anyways, maybe it is...and maybe it ain't, We'll see.
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Hard as it be to believe. I seem to have a higher opinion of the unfortunate gang's intelligence than you do

Bandit queen: I want you to rip off this guy for drugs and money. He has a AR-15. so tool up
Teen1: I have a knife
Teen2: I gots brass knucks
Teen3: I use harsh words
Bandit queen: Good enough
 
Noztradamus said:
Hard as it be to believe. I seem to have a higher opinion of the unfortunate gang's intelligence than you do

Bandit queen: I want you to rip off this guy for drugs and money. He has a AR-15. so tool up
Teen1: I have a knife
Teen2: I gots brass knucks
Teen3: I use harsh words
Bandit queen: Good enough
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The AR-15 is "death per a trigger pull". It is an an amazing rifle and so far ahead of most weapons that it it is hard for me to believe that anyone should challenge it's supremacy unless they have death wish....(or a bunch of other AR-15's backing them up).
 
Jules Galen said:
The AR-15 is "death per a trigger pull". It is an an amazing rifle and so far ahead of most weapons that it it is hard for me to believe that anyone should challenge it's supremacy unless they have death wish....(or a bunch of other AR-15's backing them up).
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Hey, that was my point! (absent the hyperbole)
 
The most puzzling aspect of that story to me has always been the fact that when you commit a crime, and somebody kill your accomplice you are under penalty of first degree murder. A quirk of the US system as far as I can tell. One should only be accused of crime they started, and the killing of her accomplice is a separate issue under the responsibility of the person shooting IMO.
 
Aepervius said:
The most puzzling aspect of that story to me has always been the fact that when you commit a crime, and somebody kill your accomplice you are under penalty of first degree murder. A quirk of the US system as far as I can tell. One should only be accused of crime they started, and the killing of her accomplice is a separate issue under the responsibility of the person shooting IMO.
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As I recall, that sort of thing became popular during the "tough on crime" phase of US history, and since we're discussing violent crime in many cases where this is invoked, it's very low priority for most reformers (compared to, for example, three-strikes legislation, jail for nonviolent drug crimes, and police department reforms).
 
arthwollipot said:
It's actually quite hard to shoot someone in the hand, which is small and can move pretty quickly. It can be done, but it takes a degree of skill and precision that most regular folks just don't have.
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About seven hours ago, I graduated from our city's Citizens Police Academy. One of the sessions involved putting us through Shoot/Don't Shoot scenarios, where we were given a "gun" and had to react to various computer-controlled situations shown on a large movie screen.

I'm an experienced target shooter and I participate in timed matches, where the clock adds just a little tension. Under those circumstances, hitting a stationary target at all, let alone hitting a specific point on a target, is comparatively easy, but misses do happen.

In the Police Academy scenarios, the targets were moving, popping up out of unexpected places and shooting back. We were told to aim for the Center of Mass, aka the torso, since that is the easiest area to hit. I never did hit the torso, although I did manage to accidentally hit everything else.

Point being, "Just shoot the weapon out of his hand" is something that is only said by someone who knows nothing about firearms or armed combat. It's damned hard to hit a moving target at all, and I can only try to imagine what it's like when you're scared stiff. And I can almost guarantee the shooter here was scared stiff.

Shoot the weapon out of his hand, or shoot to wound? Good luck with that, you're going to need it.

Btw, that kid is probably going to need months, if not years, of counceling. He'll learn to live with it, but it'll be part of him for the rest of his life.

This signature is intended to irritate people.
 
Vixen said:
The shooter himself is only 23 and the getaway driver, Rodriguez, claims to have known him. He is exculpated, apparently, by the 'stand your ground' right. Could still be charged and cite this as a defence.
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Not stand your ground, castle doctrine.
 
TragicMonkey said:
I'm not in that particular state, but yes where I live I am certainly legally entitled to defend myself from a home invasion.
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Hell is there a state in the US that this doesn't seem like a clear case of self defense? I guess if he was in a back room, knew they broke in and went toward them instead of away in some states maybe, but with out that kind of situation where he could have fled but chose not to I don't think that this would be a question in any state.
 
Aepervius said:
The most puzzling aspect of that story to me has always been the fact that when you commit a crime, and somebody kill your accomplice you are under penalty of first degree murder. A quirk of the US system as far as I can tell. One should only be accused of crime they started, and the killing of her accomplice is a separate issue under the responsibility of the person shooting IMO.
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It stems from the idea that if you are say the get away driver in a bank robbery and your coworkers kill people you are liable for that as well as the crimes that were planned. It was just expanded to any death.
 
So, did a murder actually happen? Or was it a 'stand your ground' shooting?

That would mean a 'stand your ground' shooting technically a murder for which the shooter is pardoned rather than a completely different event in the eyes of the law?
 
Even in the UK you are entitled to engage an intruder if they break into your house. You don't need to make them a cup of tea and ask their intentions before you start. You must demonstrate (after the event) that you used reasonable force, but if a UK gun owner shot a knife wielding intruder and his accomplices after they kicked in the door I'd bet dollars to donuts that he (or she) would not be charged.

Tony Martin got into trouble because the intruders were fleeing and posed him no threat at the point he shot them. He also used an illegally held weapon, but that's a different matter.
 
3point14 said:
So, did a murder actually happen? Or was it a 'stand your ground' shooting?

That would mean a 'stand your ground' shooting technically a murder for which the shooter is pardoned rather than a completely different event in the eyes of the law?
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The driver sent her accomplices in harm's way, and got them killed. That's why she's being charged with murder.
 
I hold up a bank with a partner and...

► partner shoots and kills a bank guard, or

► partner is shot and killed by a bank guard, or

► in a shootout, the bank guard accidentally kills another bank employee or customer.

...then AIUI, I can be charged with felony murder in the death of any of these individuals, right?

The logical basis appears to be that if I had not been holding up the bank, these people would still be alive.
 
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