JFK Conspiracy Theories IV: The One With The Whales

[Reheat]

What Hank posted plus the earlier failed attempt on Walker.

LHO was the classic little man w/ a firearm.

He'd be very happy to know his name is recognized and he's being discussed in the 21st century.

How true. He was the equivalent of today's domestic mass killers (those without terrorists motivations) i.e. the Sandy Hook killer and others.

It their twisted way, they do the deed and record their name in history with notoriety. They finally become someone important.

 

[Axxman300]

What Hank posted plus the earlier failed attempt on Walker.

LHO was the classic little man w/ a firearm.

He'd be very happy to know his name is recognized and he's being discussed in the 21st century.

More to the point, look at the real world.

Earlier I asked how many assassinations were carried out by long rifle, and got an answer, but now I need to ask how many times since 1963 have Americans seen what one man with a rifle can do? In a way we've lucky mass shootings weren't a thing in 1963 because Oswald would have spent the money on better gun. So many mass shooters have the same psych profile as LHO, and in 2017 the idea that one guy with a rifle can't act alone is hysterical.

 

[Axxman300]

Reheat, here's a dirty LN secret: The evidence in the JFK case takes years to get a grasp on if you're reading a little about it every few days of the week.

No, not even close.

You start from the crime scene and work your way out from there. Anything else is just Kabuki Theater.

Every single piece of evidence is an anomaly.

In what context? Every crime is an anomaly because they are incongruous to all of society except for the victim and the perpetrator.

Every single Tippit witness has their own little story.

Welcome to the human race.

Every single bit of paperwork connecting Oswald to the rifle.

But when presented in conjunction with the people (including his wife) who knew he bought the rifle, and those pesky photos his wife took, the paperwork is pretty dang solid.

It's a doozy and Lone Nutters don't want you to see that.

Real life is always a doozy. Donald Trump is my President, 19 drug cartel members just escaped from a Mexican prison, a Malaysian Airbus vanished in the South Pacific. These are all facts that shouldn't make sense in a sane world, but there they are.

You aren't going to find everything you need to know on a forum, it's scattered around several official sources and independant books from authors.

Thanks to the JFK CT cult the internet is almost worthless for research.

As far as those books go, if you have read more than four you should be asking why none of them agree on their facts, or their suspects? That was something that bothered my back when I was a CT loon, and should have been a slap in the face.

 

[BStrong]

How true. He was the equivalent of today's domestic mass killers (those without terrorists motivations) i.e. the Sandy Hook killer and others.

It their twisted way, they do the deed and record their name in history with notoriety. They finally become someone important.

Outside of any question of conspiracy whatsoever, one of my buddies came up with the idea of forbidding (as much as would be possible) dissemination of the identity of any individual accused/convicted/suicide at the scene/whatever that commits any type of notorious crime.

He suggested that starting with the shooter at UOT Austin the actor should only be referred to in public as (insert favorite pejorative term here) #1 in chronological order. I thought "impotent loser" might be good.

Deny these freaks the recognition that criminal acts now provide.

 

[BStrong]

More to the point, look at the real world.

Earlier I asked how many assassinations were carried out by long rifle, and got an answer, but now I need to ask how many times since 1963 have Americans seen what one man with a rifle can do? In a way we've lucky mass shootings weren't a thing in 1963 because Oswald would have spent the money on better gun. So many mass shooters have the same psych profile as LHO, and in 2017 the idea that one guy with a rifle can't act alone is hysterical.

My .02 is that there have always been people with marginal personalities but the overdose of violent material in popular culture and the 24 hour news cycle guarantees that any misfit mental defective can become instantly famous if they kill a notable individual or a mass of average citizens.

We're lucky in another respect too - most of the actors that do commit cluster homicides generally have low skills. The UOT shooter knew how to shoot and did, LHO knew how to shoot and did, but most of the shooters we know about were just smart enough to load and fire a weapon. They were not trained shooters.

 

[Meadmaker]

Reheat, here's a dirty LN secret: The evidence in the JFK case takes years to get a grasp on if you're reading a little about it every few days of the week. Every single piece of evidence is an anomaly. Every single Tippit witness has their own little story. Every single bit of paperwork connecting Oswald to the rifle. It's a doozy and Lone Nutters don't want you to see that. You aren't going to find everything you need to know on a forum, it's scattered around several official sources and independant books from authors.

(Emphasis added)

The thing is, that is precisely what we DO want you to see.

Yes, every witness story is slightly different. Nothing fits perfectly.

Yes, we, the lone nutters, want you to realize that.

 

[Meadmaker]

I'd like to thank you for getting me started on the right track.
...

In conclusion, I am obligated to accept the Warren Commission conclusion that LHO acted along in the assassination of JFK.

You are welcome, but more than that, thank you.

At the moment, I'm having trouble finding words for what I am thinking, but it's something about what a great pleasure it can be to debate issues with reasonable people. Perhaps more later.

 

[Garrison]

My .02 is that there have always been people with marginal personalities but the overdose of violent material in popular culture and the 24 hour news cycle guarantees that any misfit mental defective can become instantly famous if they kill a notable individual or a mass of average citizens.

We're lucky in another respect too - most of the actors that do commit cluster homicides generally have low skills. The UOT shooter knew how to shoot and did, LHO knew how to shoot and did, but most of the shooters we know about were just smart enough to load and fire a weapon. They were not trained shooters.

The only thing that distinguishes Oswald from Mark Chapman, John Hinckley or Sirhan Sirhan is his military training. You look at the profiles of these killers and Oswald blends right in.

 

[Reheat]

What's the scoop on the bullet or bullet fragments given to State trooper Bobby Nolan and taken to DPHQ. This had a different chain of custody than CE399 as I understand it. Can't find anything except CT stuff.

 

[Reheat]

What's the scoop on the bullet or bullet fragments given to State trooper Bobby Nolan and taken to DPHQ. This had a different chain of custody than CE399 as I understand it. Can't find anything except CT stuff.

Never mind. I found the answer.

 

[BStrong]

SNIPPED...

ARRB staff report of observations and opinions of forensic anthropologist Dr. Douglas Ubelaker

ARRB staff report of observations and opinions of forensic radiologist Dr. John J. Fitzpatrick

ARRB staff report of observations and opinions of forensic pathologist Dr. Robert H. Kirschner

Do you read what you link to?

From the first link:

"The damage pattern evident when viewing the photos showing the right side of the head and right shoulder and the photos showing the superior view of the head is suggestive of a head wound resulting from a bullet traversing from front-to-rear, from the front or right-front, but at the same time is not conclusive in that regard. It is unclear how much of the displacement pattern in these photographs is really due to gunshot, and how much is due to the simple force of gravity on a body which is lying supine (and possible dislocation due to the transportation from Parkland Hospital to Bethesda)"

 

[HSienzant]

Never mind. I found the answer.

Just a heads up that this thread (and its predecessor threads) is a great resource in that regard. It goes back to October of 2011 and we've covered a lot of ground in that time.

I'd be surprised if you could find something we haven't touched on in that time. There's a search function that enables you to find anything of interest.

For example, Robert Harris brought up Bobby Nolan in the prior thread. Here's where I pointed out the issue with utilizing Nolan as a source:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10742734&highlight=Nolan#post10742734

(It turned out Nolan came forward with a statement to Bob Harris 49 years after the fact that Harris cites as a fact).

Hank

 

[MicahJava]

And there you go, off and running in a new direction, with some more three decade after-the-fact recollections as your primary "evidence". All of these statements first surfaced in the 1990's at the earliest, correct?

Why should reasonable people put any credence into recollections like these? You have apparently learned nothing from the discussion of the last six months or more about the profound unreliability of eyewitness testimony.

Hank

Although even Dale Meyers agrees that the wallet in the news channel footage is not Tippit's wallet, it does appear that the claim that it was an Oswald wallet began no earlier than the 90's. I don't know, but with Bob Barrett shouting from the highest mountains that it was Oswald's wallet, I thought it deserved a forum post or two. I don't have a copy of Dale Myers' book, but a review of his book on KennedysAndKing has a lengthy discussion of the wallet witnesses: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/61tjsb/germany_didnt_receive_nato_invoice_from_trump/

One thing is that there was no "demand" for witnesses to an Oswald wallet, it's something that Barrett started. There is some speculation that the later ARRB witnesses to Kennedy's corpse being brought in a zippered bodybag was due to Paul O'Connor's recollections as publicized in the well-known book Best Evidence, and thus a "supply" of more bodybag witnesses were somehow created by garbled memories and stuff from Best Evidence. But nobody can say there was any "demand" for the claim that an Oswald wallet was found at the scene of the Tippit shooting. When I see the Kennedy case, I'm so overwhelmed by the big stuff so I prefer to occasionally take small bites into little things like the wallets. It's a tiny note I casually brought up, not a challenge to a rude, aggressive internet dispute.

 

[MicahJava]

Do you read what you link to?

From the first link:

"The damage pattern evident when viewing the photos showing the right side of the head and right shoulder and the photos showing the superior view of the head is suggestive of a head wound resulting from a bullet traversing from front-to-rear, from the front or right-front, but at the same time is not conclusive in that regard. It is unclear how much of the displacement pattern in these photographs is really due to gunshot, and how much is due to the simple force of gravity on a body which is lying supine (and possible dislocation due to the transportation from Parkland Hospital to Bethesda)"

What does that have to do with the location of the small head wound?

 

[MicahJava]

Outside of any question of conspiracy whatsoever, one of my buddies came up with the idea of forbidding (as much as would be possible) dissemination of the identity of any individual accused/convicted/suicide at the scene/whatever that commits any type of notorious crime.

He suggested that starting with the shooter at UOT Austin the actor should only be referred to in public as (insert favorite pejorative term here) #1 in chronological order. I thought "impotent loser" might be good.

Deny these freaks the recognition that criminal acts now provide.

Your buddy is fascist.

 

[BStrong]

What does that have to do with the location of the small head wound?

It's an acknowledgement that what was in front of the Dr's doing the review was not conclusive, something that you ignore any hint of.

 

[MicahJava]

Your link is just standard suppressor stuff. Nothing at all special about it. Some are more efficient than others.

Riding on this comment to post a reminder:

Some of you have been to Dealey Plaza, right? Or at least seen it on Google Maps street view? It's not a huge place, it's not a small place, it's a medium-sized place. The grassy knoll is a completely different location than the east side of the TSBD. So why are some of you totally content with thinking that shots somehow echoed and "bounced" around to sound exactly like a shot from the knoll area? The HSCA earwitness report did note that firing shots in Dealey Plaza creates echoes, but their two observers reported data indicates that the noise of an unsuppressed rifle doesn't just "bounce around". The HSCA experiment observers found it easy almost all of the time to tell where a shot originated. So any speculation about the acoustics of Dealey Plaza being like that is total discredited hogwash. The burden of proof has been on the Lone Nutters since the 70's to show how ~40% of witnesses could think shot(s) came from the knoll area. I already proposed one idea: guns with noise-suppressors in conjunction with supersonic ammunition. What's yours?

 

[BStrong]

Your buddy is fascist.

You'll need to point out how denying a murderer a place in history constitutes fascism.

His solution is simply to remove fame from the equation for individuals (like LHO) with marginal personalities.

I concur with his opinion. LHO would be the happiest man alive to know folks like you are working to clear his good name in the 21st century.

 

[BStrong]

Riding on this comment to post a reminder:

Some of you have been to Dealey Plaza, right? Or at least seen it on Google Maps street view? It's not a huge place, it's not a small place, it's a medium-sized place. The grassy knoll is a completely different location than the east side of the TSBD. So why are some of you totally content with thinking that shots somehow echoed and "bounced" around to sound exactly like a shot from the knoll area? The HSCA earwitness report did note that firing shots in Dealey Plaza creates echoes, but their two observers reported data indicates that the noise of an unsuppressed rifle doesn't just "bounce around". The HSCA experiment observers found it easy almost all of the time to tell where a shot originated. So any speculation about the acoustics of Dealey Plaza being like that is total discredited hogwash. The burden of proof has been on the Lone Nutters since the 70's to show how ~40% of witnesses could think shot(s) came from the knoll area. I already proposed one idea: guns with noise-suppressors in conjunction with supersonic ammunition. What's yours?

I already posted mine - earwitness reports are unreliable and subjective at best.

Anyone that was located parallel to the trajectory of the projectiles could have heard the MSB and misidentified them as muzzle blast.

 

[MicahJava]

It's an acknowledgement that what was in front of the Dr's doing the review was not conclusive, something that you ignore any hint of.

The depressed cowlick fracture is clear as day on the X-rays. If forensic experts today see that and don't think it's an entry wound, than that's a clear indicator of how much the medical evidence has been obfuscated for the last 50 years.