The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 24

[acbytesla]

OK. Something else is burbling under the Vixen surface. I suspect I know what it is, but let vixen hold forth on that matter.

I can't say what her deal is. I have thought about ...but it's a no no to talk about.

 

[Numbers]

On comparative legal consequences of a false report to police...a US case:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-raped-her-police-say/?utm_term=.883020133517

“The department will file a criminal case against her for False Report to a Peace Officer, a Class B Misdemeanor” and will “seek restitution for the significant costs for conducting such a major investigation,” {Police Chief} Burch’s statement said.

Note that the alleged false report was initiated by the suspect; she did not make it while being interrogated, but according to this article, first made the claim during a service in a church and later to the police.

 

[Stee]

The following article explains the demonization of Mignini. I hope after reading it, it will become clearer why the Amanda Knox advocate producers of the Netflix film have a vested interest in portraying him in an exaggerately derogatory light.

My observations were from his mouth directly not selected quotes or misinformation, it was the direct interview with him. I understand the possiblity of bias involved with a project of this type, but regardless, he does not come across well at all.

 

[NotEvenWrong]

Do you mind not swearing?

I didn't swear. "Freakin'" is not a swear word. Could you please stop lying?

The Prisoners Dilemma is predicated on the Nash Equilibrium.

The Nash equilibrium is a solution to the Prisoner's dilemma. To claim the players came to the Nash equilibrium assumes they know the equilibrium strategy of the other "player". (Seriously, look it up. Oh you don't read books lol.)

Are you saying Rudy knew the equilibrium strategy of Amanda and Raffaele, Raffaele knew the equilibrium strategy of Rudy and Amanda, and Amanda knew the equilibrium strategy of Raffaele and Rudy? And they each behaved in accordance to their optimal game theoretic strategy? Or do you just not know what you're talking about and are saying stuff that you think makes you sound smart?

It is quite ignorant to assume the outcome is always, 'They will always betray each other'. It is simply not so.

Perhaps I wasn't clear, but the classic example of the prisoner's dilemma has a Nash equilibrium of betrayal. Because the entire point of the example as constructed in the original literature was to show that even if cooperation leads to the best possible outcome, betrayal can be the Nash equilibrium and is the rational self-interested solution.

You are correct that other examples can have a Nash equilibrium of cooperation.

So my question for you is: did you construct a payoff matrix for Rudy, Amanda, and Raffaele? And have you shown mathematically that cooperation is the Nash equilibrium and best strategy?

If so, please show your work.

Alternatively you didn't actually do any of this and, like I said, you are just saying stuff that you think makes you sound smart. Without actually understanding any of it.

 

[Stacyhs]

Jody Arias also comes as across as 'a very nice person', to the unwary. Who thought she could do what she did?

False equivalence. Arias killed her ex-boyfriend not her roommate of a few weeks and she didn't have to persuade two people she barely knew to help and cover it up.

Arias had a history of violent and aggressive behavior against her victim whereas not a single person testified that Amanda has ever said a negative thing about Meredith, there were no nasty texts sent between them, nor did Amanda ever exhibit any violence at all. This is not true of Arias.


"Travis Alexander was trying to break up with Arias. When he began distancing himself, her behavior turned. She threatened suicide, showed up uninvited to his house, broke into online accounts and slashed his tires. "

"Arias would call Alexander from work, only to drop whatever she was doing to go after him if he didn't answer her calls. She kicked the family dog. She kicked her mother. In fits of anger she slashed his tires, twice. The same can be said for breaking into his email and sending a threatening email to a potential rival. She sent insulting texts to women from Alexander's phone while he was in the shower." (Psychology Today, 3/30/2013)

 

[Numbers]

....

{Dear "Dr" Patrizia Stefanoni,}

... {P}lease show your work, {including the raw electronic data files}.

Alternatively you didn't actually do any of this {DNA profiling without cheating} ....

NEW, I hijacked your post to illustrate the issue with the alleged inculpatory DNA profile evidence in the case. The theme of "showing your work" is common.

 

[acbytesla]

Arias had a history of violent and aggressive behavior against her victim whereas not a single person testified that Amanda has ever said a negative thing about Meredith, there were no nasty texts sent between them, nor did Amanda ever exhibit any violence at all. This is not true of Arias.


"Travis Alexander was trying to break up with Arias. When he began distancing himself, her behavior turned. She threatened suicide, showed up uninvited to his house, broke into online accounts and slashed his tires. "

"Arias would call Alexander from work, only to drop whatever she was doing to go after him if he didn't answer her calls. She kicked the family dog. She kicked her mother. In fits of anger she slashed his tires, twice. The same can be said for breaking into his email and sending a threatening email to a potential rival. She sent insulting texts to women from Alexander's phone while he was in the shower." (Psychology Today, 3/30/2013)

Wasn't evidence presented in the trial of similar behavior from Knox?

 

[Stacyhs]

Wasn't evidence presented in the trial of similar behavior from Knox?

Only in the PGP's minds. You know, the picture of Knox playing around with a machine gun in a museum, throwing rocks at cars in a "scene out of Baghdad", etc.

 

[acbytesla]

Only in the PGP's minds. You know, the picture of Knox playing around with a machine gun in a museum, throwing rocks at cars in a "scene out of Baghdad", etc.

C'mon, certainly Vixen has evidence of Amanda acting crazy toward Meredith for her to compare Amanda to Arias. Surely, Filomena and Laura witnessed Knox acting violent or unhinged? The prosecution had to call witnesses from US said Amanda had often acted crazy.

Right?

I mean this girl must be crazy.


http://www.westseattleherald.com/si...stseattleheraldcom/2017/03/amanda-mailbox.jpg

 

[Stacyhs]

C'mon, certainly Vixen has evidence of Amanda acting crazy toward Meredith for her to compare Amanda to Arias. Surely, Filomena and Laura witnessed Knox acting violent or unhinged? The prosecution had to call witnesses from US said Amanda had often acted crazy.

Right?

Right! A witness was flown over from Seattle to testify to her deranged and violent past behavior. His damning testimony "described Amanda Knox as a serious student not given to the sort of drug abuse and sexual licentiousness the prosecution has accused her of. "

Most damning of all was her friend Andrew Seliber's bombshell revelation that " Ms Knox studied and worked hard, but also liked to rock climb, play music and party occasionally. Once she left for Italy, she raved about her roommates and posted enthusiastic reports on Facebook and in emails home.

"She told me her roommates were great, that they got along well and she liked them very much," he said. "She was having the best time of her life."
(Independent June 13, 2009)

Shocking!

 

[acbytesla]

Right! A witness was flown over from Seattle to testify to her deranged and violent past behavior. His damning testimony "described Amanda Knox as a serious student not given to the sort of drug abuse and sexual licentiousness the prosecution has accused her of. "

Most damning of all was her friend Andrew Seliber's bombshell revelation that " Ms Knox studied and worked hard, but also liked to rock climb, play music and party occasionally. Once she left for Italy, she raved about her roommates and posted enthusiastic reports on Facebook and in emails home.

"She told me her roommates were great, that they got along well and she liked them very much," he said. "She was having the best time of her life."
(Independent June 13, 2009)

Shocking!

Very shocking indeed. Few people can handle the friends and the adventure. I mean you Stacyhs wouldn't want to go to live in Italy for a while and meet a cute rich italian boy while you were there. That would be too much to handle.

 

[bagels]

However, what is the deal with the evidence that seems to suggest that the scene was tampered with, with the glass from the break in being on top of the items inside after some sort of attack and the route of entry? If this has been gone over in the previous 23 threads I apologise but I am genuinely interested in this. I got that information from the Nencini Sentencing link provided earlier

In every photograph of the break-in scene, the glass is under the items. There is no photographic evidence of any glass on top of any objects. There were a couple eyewitness reports of glass on top of clothes, but it would seem photographs would be the defining answer. At any rate the scene wasn't secured. Amanda and Raffaele had been in there during their initial examination, then Filomena and the postal police, before anyone knew it was a murder scene, so there was ample opportunity for disturbances. I linked the Nencini report because it a great example of bad legal reasoning. And that example is nowhere near the worst.

BTW the defining characteristic of the break-in was that it was an upper story climb up metal bars on the side into the window busted open with a large rock. If you don't know, Rudy Guede, the criminal that left all the primary evidence at the scene, had just been released by the police for possessing stolen property from a break-in a couple blocks away that was committed by climbing up metal bars on the side and smashing the upper window with a large rock.

Is the enduring interest in this case the fact that we can never really know? Is it still accepted in Italy that Rudy was guilty but did not act alone?

If AK and RS secretly pulled off one of the most perfect murders in history spontaneously with no possibility for any real planning and multi accomplice coordination while simultaneously making all the wrong decisions is a question I leave to the gods. The case, however, was objectively garbage.

I assume the majority in Italy believe the students (Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito) guilty.

 

[Stacyhs]

Very shocking indeed. Few people can handle the friends and the adventure. I mean you Stacyhs wouldn't want to go to live in Italy for a while and meet a cute rich italian boy while you were there. That would be too much to handle.

I think my husband might object.

 

[acbytesla]

I think my husband might object.

Husbands are funny that way. Won't let you fly off to Italy and have fun with cute guys. They're just no fun.

 

[Vixen]

My observations were from his mouth directly not selected quotes or misinformation, it was the direct interview with him. I understand the possiblity of bias involved with a project of this type, but regardless, he does not come across well at all.

He is a Public Prosecutor, not a TV star.

 

[Vixen]

I didn't swear. "Freakin'" is not a swear word. Could you please stop lying?



The Nash equilibrium is a solution to the Prisoner's dilemma. To claim the players came to the Nash equilibrium assumes they know the equilibrium strategy of the other "player". (Seriously, look it up. Oh you don't read books lol.)

Are you saying Rudy knew the equilibrium strategy of Amanda and Raffaele, Raffaele knew the equilibrium strategy of Rudy and Amanda, and Amanda knew the equilibrium strategy of Raffaele and Rudy? And they each behaved in accordance to their optimal game theoretic strategy? Or do you just not know what you're talking about and are saying stuff that you think makes you sound smart?



Perhaps I wasn't clear, but the classic example of the prisoner's dilemma has a Nash equilibrium of betrayal. Because the entire point of the example as constructed in the original literature was to show that even if cooperation leads to the best possible outcome, betrayal can be the Nash equilibrium and is the rational self-interested solution.

You are correct that other examples can have a Nash equilibrium of cooperation.

So my question for you is: did you construct a payoff matrix for Rudy, Amanda, and Raffaele? And have you shown mathematically that cooperation is the Nash equilibrium and best strategy?

If so, please show your work.

Alternatively you didn't actually do any of this and, like I said, you are just saying stuff that you think makes you sound smart. Without actually understanding any of it.

You claimed I was a liar for saying Prisoners Dilemma is predicated on Nash Equilibrium.

In support of your claim, you came out with a profanity and various personal attacks. Now you are claiming I am stupid, uneducated and have never read books.

Do you have any evidence of that?

 

[Vixen]

Arias had a history of violent and aggressive behavior against her victim whereas not a single person testified that Amanda has ever said a negative thing about Meredith, there were no nasty texts sent between them, nor did Amanda ever exhibit any violence at all. This is not true of Arias.


"Travis Alexander was trying to break up with Arias. When he began distancing himself, her behavior turned. She threatened suicide, showed up uninvited to his house, broke into online accounts and slashed his tires. "

"Arias would call Alexander from work, only to drop whatever she was doing to go after him if he didn't answer her calls. She kicked the family dog. She kicked her mother. In fits of anger she slashed his tires, twice. The same can be said for breaking into his email and sending a threatening email to a potential rival. She sent insulting texts to women from Alexander's phone while he was in the shower." (Psychology Today, 3/30/2013)

Amanda wrote graphic short stories about rape and murder before she even arrived in Italy.

 

[Vixen]

Very shocking indeed. Few people can handle the friends and the adventure. I mean you Stacyhs wouldn't want to go to live in Italy for a while and meet a cute rich italian boy while you were there. That would be too much to handle.

It really is a fallacious argument. Leopold and Leob were super-bright Ivy League types, filthy rich, and yet they thought it fun to entice a 14 year old boy into their car and murder him for laughs. They thought they committed the perfect crime. When caught, they played Prisoners dilemma, each blaming the other.

 

[Vixen]

In every photograph of the break-in scene, the glass is under the items. There is no photographic evidence of any glass on top of any objects. There were a couple eyewitness reports of glass on top of clothes, but it would seem photographs would be the defining answer. At any rate the scene wasn't secured. Amanda and Raffaele had been in there during their initial examination, then Filomena and the postal police, before anyone knew it was a murder scene, so there was ample opportunity for disturbances. I linked the Nencini report because it a great example of bad legal reasoning. And that example is nowhere near the worst.

BTW the defining characteristic of the break-in was that it was an upper story climb up metal bars on the side into the window busted open with a large rock. If you don't know, Rudy Guede, the criminal that left all the primary evidence at the scene, had just been released by the police for possessing stolen property from a break-in a couple blocks away that was committed by climbing up metal bars on the side and smashing the upper window with a large rock.


If AK and RS secretly pulled off one of the most perfect murders in history spontaneously with no possibility for any real planning and multi accomplice coordination while simultaneously making all the wrong decisions is a question I leave to the gods. The case, however, was objectively garbage.

I assume the majority in Italy believe the students (Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito) guilty.

Bagels, we have been over this argument many many times and still you fondly clasp your debunked theory to your bosom.

 

[Vixen]

Just stop it. Just stop making these false equivalences.

I've been in physical fights in high school and Jr. High. I've also been livid with fellow employees as an adult almost having a physical fight with one. But NEVER have I thought of killing anyone. That said, the most intense emotion I've ever felt was with my father and a couple of exes. I can imagine that kind of emotion causing people to doing good crazy things if they might have issues

You said this was a premeditated murder involving 3 people, none of whom had a real motive to kill Meredith. Sorry, that's just whacko.

Psychopaths need little reason.

Some schoolgirl in the US shot her teacher and classmates, sniping from her window, 'Because I don't like Monday.'