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Indyref 2: This time it's personal.

Your points have been addressed. They lack accuracy and factual basis. For someone who is sick of hearing about the debate you certainly have a lot to say about it.
Not as much as you do. But then, in your own mind you believe you have the all the answers. Shame that the majority don't agree with you.

I'm sick of hearing the same repeated SNP lies about the debate. I'm an enthusiastic follower of most other aspects pertaining to Brexit. If the SNP just wittered on and on about indyref that would be one thing - it is, after all, their monomania. It's the dragging of Brexit into the issue that is dishonest.
 
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Not as much as you do. But then, in your own mind you believe you have the all the answers. Shame that the majority don't agree with you.

I'm sick of hearing the same repeated SNP lies about the debate. I'm an enthusiastic follower of most other aspects pertaining to Brexit.

I don't have all the answers but I can smell ***** when it's in front of me.

Yet again you blether on but absent facts or evidence. Shouldn't you be off shouting at Romanians or something productive?
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/nicola-sturgeon-liar-traitor-head/

It now calls her "another treacherous queen of the Scots".

Near as I can tell, there are only two possibilities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret,_Maid_of_Norway
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_Queen_of_Scots

I daresay the first option makes little sense, but the second one is right on target.
Brexiteer movement has truly gone full retard.

McHrozni

Reading that in the context of this is amusing.

https://storify.com/dansumners/doug-stanhope-vs-allison-perason

I wonder if Ms Pearson has been reported to the British Police?
 
These are the facts that I posted that Archie said were wrong. He's been metaphorically stamping his feet ever since and insisting they're wrong without once saying why.

ceptimus said:
Farage has hardly been in the news lately, compared to Sturgeon who is on EVERY news bulletin.

When watching the house of commons, the sole UKIP MP rarely speaks but the SNP contribute on every issue - and they always say the same thing so could easily be replaced by a gramophone record or just a poster.

May is the PM of the UK, and Scotland voted to be members of the UK in the last "once in a generation" referendum two years ago.

I've given up expecting rational posts from Archie but I'll leave other readers to decide whether or not they were facts.
 
Reading that in the context of this is amusing.

https://storify.com/dansumners/doug-stanhope-vs-allison-perason

I wonder if Ms Pearson has been reported to the British Police?


There's a story in the print edition of today's National saying that 165 complaints have been received by IPSO, the press regulator. However, as none of these people is acting on behalf of Nicola Sturgeon with her knowledge and consent they will not be able to consider the complaints further.

I tried searching for the article online but it doesn't seem to be up. I doubt if it's anything the police would get involved with. I mean, Red Queen and all that. It's nasty and the aggregation of the whole lot could be taken as an incitement, but it's not a credible death threat as such.
 
There's a story in the print edition of today's National saying that 165 complaints have been received by IPSO, the press regulator. However, as none of these people is acting on behalf of Nicola Sturgeon with her knowledge and consent they will not be able to consider the complaints further.

I tried searching for the article online but it doesn't seem to be up. I doubt if it's anything the police would get involved with. I mean, Red Queen and all that. It's nasty and the aggregation of the whole lot could be taken as an incitement, but it's not a credible death threat as such.

It's as much a crime as what she claims to have reported Stanhope for.
 
I had very little trouble when I lived in south-east England, first in Hertfordshire and then in Sussex. I recall the young daughter of a Scots couple who lived in the same block of flats as me getting upset about her classmates jeering "Scotty" at her, but primary school children can be ferocious and it doesn't necessarily mean much. (Her father later joined the SNP about the same time as I did, though by then I'd moved to Sussex.)

I remember one incident in Sussex where the owner of a garden centre had a go at me while I was paying for some plants, shouting at me that Scots should go and take that John Smith with you. Which was rather odd behaviour from a business owner to a customer but he was a raging Tory as I knew from a mutual friend. (He was also called Michael Howard!)

I also noticed that while I'd had no trouble spending Scottish bank notes in the first couple of decades of my residence in England, from about the turn of the millennium I seemed to be getting them refused on a more and more frequent basis.

But mostly all was calm and pleasant. But then I moved back to Scotland in the autumn of 2006. At that point the SNP didn't have any political power and weren't seen as a threat. Everything changed six months later.
 
It's as much a crime as what she claims to have reported Stanhope for.


Yeah, but she was telling people on twitter yesterday that they'd libelled her because they criticised the headline (which she was claiming she didn't write). She has no clue, basically.
 
Yeah, but she was telling people on twitter yesterday that they'd libelled her because they criticised the headline (which she was claiming she didn't write). She has no clue, basically.

Well that much is obvious. She wails about people claiming hate crime to stifle free speech and then does that very thing to others.She moans about people moving into areas and putting pressure on their public services while doing that very thing herself AND not paying her tax to the point where HMRC had to bankrupt her! She whimpers about mysogyny while insulting Sturgeon on her appearance and suggesting she should be executed.
 
Well there's an interesting point.

The normal interpretation of "traitor" would be in respect of one's own country. Mary may have been many things, but she wasn't English.

That does not mean that she did not plot against Elizabeth (although that point is arguable) but rather that the Telegraph's writers' grasp of history and law on this point is as as poor as it is on most matters pertaining to Scottish politics.

I think he got his facts of Mary Queen of Scots from that Monty Python skit....\

"Are Ye Mary, Queen Of Scots?":D
 
None so blind...

The Mind boggles.
I have done a 180 from my American Kibitzing Position: I though that Scottish Indepence was a bad idea in 2014, but is now a good one.
It will be interesting to see if a non SNP independence movement gets started...they want Scottish Indepdence,but don't share the SNP's political/economic views.
 
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The Mind boggles.
I have done a 180 from my American Kibitzing Position: I though that Scottish Indepence was a bad idea in 2014, but is now a good one.
It will be interesting to see if a non SNP independence movement gets started...they want Scottish Indepdence,but don't share the SNP's political/economic views.


That's been a thing all along. The media won't shut up about the SNP and "Alex Salmond's dream", but there are significant groupings within the independence movement which at best tolerate the SNP and in some cases can barely conceal their loathing.
 
The Mind boggles.
I have done a 180 from my American Kibitzing Position: I though that Scottish Indepence was a bad idea in 2014, but is now a good one.
It will be interesting to see if a non SNP independence movement gets started...they want Scottish Indepdence,but don't share the SNP's political/economic views.

The greens and i think the socialists are pro independence. And there are people who are pro independence but anti EU who don't fit neatly with the SNP banner.

It's interesting to me anyway that people are starting to come round to the idea of Scottish independence when i personally think the case is weaker now than in 2014. But then i knew in 2014 that the better together guys were lying. Maybe they just had to prove it to a new generation who had forgotten what the Tories are. No doubt that is also why they are so keen to interpret Salmonds once in a generation as a policy pledge. You need people to forget they were lied to last time before you can lie to them again.
 
These are the facts that I posted that Archie said were wrong. He's been metaphorically stamping his feet ever since and insisting they're wrong without once saying why.



I've given up expecting rational posts from Archie but I'll leave other readers to decide whether or not they were facts.

This is a new low. You are even lying about what you have been accused of lying about.

Of course there is a way to avoid such accusations. Don't lie and back up what you say with evidence. Two things you refuse to do ever
 
....
A place where we could make our own choices and our own decisions without our parliament constantly being hamstrung by "reserved matters" or having its hands tied by decisions made in Westminster. A place where we could set our own priorities for health and social care without having policies designed for a far more right-wing electorate imposed on us.

We looked to a large extent at Scandinavian countries and how they organise sometimes similar resources and coped with sometimes similar problems. We dreamed of land reform, of breaking the death-grip of the huge estates on every aspect of rural life.
....

The problem for those of us less emotionally committed to independence, is that the Scottish Government could have done some of this. We see little evidence of such innovation now so why should an independent government with the distraction of external affairs be any different? In some ways Wales and Northern Ireland have been more innovative around health than Scotland. The record on education is not great. With limited responsibilities what the Scottish Government does do, one would expect them to do well.

The SNP is a very centralising party, it has little interest in the periphery as its power house is the central belt. In many ways it is as remote as a Westminster government.

Scandinavia is often held up as an exemplar, but what does this mean? Conscription? A much greater proportion of private health care (by which I mean having to pay out of pocket for a proportion of services)? Much greater restrictions on the sale of alcohol?

The argument that an independent Scotland could pursue a more Socialist agenda, is not an argument for independence per se, as it is only attractive if you want a Socialist state and is in fact an argument against independence for those nervous of past examples of Socialist Utopias.

The vibe from people I talk to is that they really do not want another prolonged and divisive referendum campaign. That produces a new sectarian divide. There are some people for whom the SNP action is seen as them pursuing 'personal' agendas and not focussing on the Scottish people who voted against independence. That is the true 'mandate', and instruction that was delivered by the people of Scotland. An instruction that the SNP ignores because they did not like the answer they got.

I can see that every new leader of the SNP will have as a rite of passage the need to call a referendum. Can you see someone becoming leader who does not declare an intention to have a referendum?

I think that one thing that has to come out of arrangements if there is to be another referendum is that there needs to be a commitment not to have another referendum on independence for at least ten years.
 

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