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The Turin Shroud: The Image of Edessa created in c. 300-400 AD?

Depends on the nature of the grey that has been added, but I see nothing remarkable in the samples provided.

You might be simply perceiving the colours differently. To assess that try this test. http://xritephoto.com/online-color-test-challenge

Please post your score.

It's possible you have misunderstood what I meant by "dramatic results". Maybe I didn't express myself clearly. The dramatic result is not the effect of Zeke on the colour charts - quite the opposite in fact, where it merely causes a slight dulling of the primary colours. The dramatic effect is on that earlier image of the Shroud, where it brings up a highly speckled appearance that is scarcely noticeable before applying the filter. Those speckles are NOT an artefact since the major ones at least, and by implication, the minor ones too, are visible (just!) before applying Zeke.The important signal is there, but masked it seems by background 'noise'.

Zeke is one of those gift horses that should not be looked at too closely in the mouth... Dentition ain't everything in the horse trade if the immediate need is simply to get quickly from A to B.
 
It's possible you have misunderstood what I meant by "dramatic results". Maybe I didn't express myself clearly. The dramatic result is not the effect of Zeke on the colour charts - quite the opposite in fact, where it merely causes a slight dulling of the primary colours. The dramatic effect is on that earlier image of the Shroud, where it brings up a highly speckled appearance that is scarcely noticeable before applying the filter. Those speckles are NOT an artefact since the major ones at least, and by implication, the minor ones too, are visible (just!) before applying Zeke.The important signal is there, but masked it seems by background 'noise'.

Zeke is one of those gift horses that should not be looked at too closely in the mouth... Dentition ain't everything in the horse trade if the immediate need is simply to get quickly from A to B.
Zeke is not a professional level tool, and you cannot extract more data from any image than is already there. For preference, I use photoshop and have done so for many years (20 if you must know). I posted the test because one in twelve males has a serious colour perception issue and few will achieve a perfect score on that test. I notice you avoided it.
 
Zeke is not a professional level tool, and you cannot extract more data from any image than is already there. For preference, I use photoshop and have done so for many years (20 if you must know). I posted the test because one in twelve males has a serious colour perception issue and few will achieve a perfect score on that test. I notice you avoided it.

This is not primarily about subjective aspects of colour perception, since I show before and after photos, and invite folk here to spot the obvious objective differences, arguably not so much in colour (though that may assist) so much as CONTRAST. The particles to which I refer are visible for the most part in BOTH before and after images, especially in the contrast-enhanced Shroud Scope pictures, so are NOT artefacts of the Zeke makeover.

Nope, I did not use your more 'professional' PhotoShop, but Microsoft Office Picture Manager instead, reporting results almost 5 years ago under the title: "Shroud Scope 10: my very own gallery of 20 close-up views of the Shroud – all lightly photo-edited for optimised colour-differentiation". That is one of my most frequently visited postings, its main advantage over unedited Shroud Scope being that it differentiates between blood and body image, entirely by contrast and coincidental colour, blood being more purplish, body image more tan coloured.

Now you may consider MS Office to be less "professional" than PhotoShop, but that term "professional" can be misleading if you don't mind my saying in the context of science where one takes nothing at face value, and where in my case one supplements one's findings by trying to find precisely what the software is doing to produce its useful discrimination between one image and another, e.g. blood/body image, and now particulate/non-particulate.

To cite just one example, I reported a later RGB analysis to find precisely how changes in contrast were able to produce useful colour changes, real or not, that made for better discrimination. Two main conclusions emerged. First, when you alter contrast on a colour image, you (coincidentally) alter the balance between yellow and blue, analogous to white/black for a B/W only image (yellow being the additive mix of red and green). Second, I realized on analysing the washed-out looking Shroud Scope images with their unhelpful purplish-hue that someone must have taken the Shroud Scope image from Durante (2002) and purposely REDUCED contrast to make them look the way they did. I put that suggestion directly to Mario Latendresse, the Canadian IT specialist/sindonologist who created Shroud Scope. He denied having done that himself, but volunteered no further comment.

While penning this comment, I've had an idea. In the next few days, I'll go back to my June 2012 posting with the 20 contrast-enhanced images, and give each a Zeke makeover, adding the result as an appendix. Nope, I don't expect to suddenly morph into a colour "professional" and will no doubt attract further flak for my choice of software. I'm content to be seen as a Shroud researcher who chooses what he considers the simplest, appropriate tools for making a valid scientific point, preferably tools that are available to anyone and everyone online, making it possible for them to check out and hopefully reproduce my findings.

I have a new term to suggest for the Shroud body image. It's "biphasic". It's either particulate (read "crud"), or non-particulate (yellow background stain) or a mixture of the two, depending on which image fibres one happens to sample and detach for microscopic and chemical study. McCrone only saw the crud, and interpreted it as inorganic iron oxides etc. Di Lazzaro only sees the superficial stain and interprets it as a radiation scorch. I see the end result of imprinting and baking thousands of oil/flour microcakes on linen in situ!
 
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Zeke is not a professional level tool, and you cannot extract more data from any image than is already there. For preference, I use photoshop and have done so for many years (20 if you must know). I posted the test because one in twelve males has a serious colour perception issue and few will achieve a perfect score on that test. I notice you avoided it.

Dude. That test is a royal pain in the ass. Just ordering the first row is more effort than I'm going to spend unless you're paying at least skilled laborer wages for my trouble.

Don't get me wrong. I think the Shroud is an obvious medieval artifact. I don't know what meccanoman is on about, but it seems incredibly tiresome.

Not as tiresome as that test, though. The only way I'd do that test is if my physician sat me down and told me that it was the only way I'd ever get laid again. Or if I was so bored that it was either that test or cutting myself, to pass the time.
 
As I say, I'm no expert where colour is concerned, but have picked up a thing or two about CONTRAST via experimenting.

At the risk of being ever more tiresome, here's a possible explanation as to how Zeke works.

First, a reminder about contrast changes in two situations. First, with B/W pictures, if you want more contrast, you make pixels that are more than the mean level of whiteness more white, and those less than the mean level of blackness more black. If it's a colour image, then substitute yellow for white, and blue for black.

Might Zeke be a hybrid? In other words, it takes anything that is darker with more blue than yellow and makes them more BLACK, rather than more blue. That would explain the white background turning a pale grey. Any slightly darker than background particles are made BLACKER rather than bluer (or browner in mixture with red and green) greatly increasing their visibility against background.

Just a thought. (How should one pronounce "Zeke" btw? Is it Zeek or Zekkay?)
 
......Faint yellow background stains do arguably show up on those ZEKE-edited pictures of body image areas!

What else do you want to "show up"? I can make almost anything show up on the image with just a click or two in Photoshop. The results from this would be just as valid as from the crappy freebie image manipulation programme you are using.

To aid focus, I will only read one paragraph of any response. No wall of text is going to persuade me that applying a filter of any description to a photo is going to produce anything of any value.
 
Here's another before v after image:

mount-rushmore-pre-post-zeke.png


Zeke has not enhanced the Presidents. But look what it's done to the mountain faces in the background, top left and top right, making them look less like heaps of cow dollop, more like real rock faces.

How's it done that? By adding contrast, promoting tiny differences in texture to make them bolder, easier to see against background. Nope, Zeke is NOT creating meaningless artefacts. I say it's an invaluable research tool, given we have only the one Shroud, and need to extract as much information from it as we can.

The important thing is to validate Zeke using standard known images, something I've made a start on with that Mt.Rushmore picture.

Request: let me know if any new artefacts are spotted, i.e. which have no visible counterpart in the original picture.
 
I've no intention of doing any such thing. I'm just keeping a watching brief for erroneous and over-blown claims.

I would ask you to consider how much credibility your interesting baked flour idea will have if it is associated with a puerile "look what I see if I stick a crappy filter over a low res photo from the internet" argument.
 
I've no intention of doing any such thing. I'm just keeping a watching brief for erroneous and over-blown claims.

I would ask you to consider how much credibility your interesting baked flour idea will have if it is associated with a puerile "look what I see if I stick a crappy filter over a low res photo from the internet" argument.

What you describe as a "low res photo from the internet" has a history that belies your put-down description. First I went to the Shroud Scope photoarchive of Durante 2002 colour images. I first increased magnification, stopping just short of obvious pixellation, then improved the contrast using 4 of the contrast (not colour!) controls on my MS Office Picture Manager. That alone was sufficient to show up the particle field in virtually all body image regions that to the best of my knowledge has never been commented on previously. The final step was to apply Zeke, which as seen earlier greatly accentuates the particles without creating new artefacts.

I rest my case: Zeke has opened up a new window on the Shroud, showing the image to be biphasic. That applies incidentally to both body image AND blood (or "blood").

You read it here first.
 
......I rest my case: Zeke has opened up a new window on the Shroud, showing the image to be biphasic.......

Bang goes any credibility for any of your claims.





MS Office Picture Manager!?!

:sdl:
 
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There was an extensive discussion earlier on this thread on the role of falsification in science. It ended with me saying I'd gone to some trouble to address it, but felt it wasn't the be-all-and-end-all, as some logicians and metaphysicists would have us believe, and indeed could be a needless distraction, certainly in the early stages of a new project, where the priority is to make and test hypotheses.

<snip>

There's a time and a place for everything. The time for falsification is later rather than sooner, when the parameters of a new hypothesis or theory are reasonably well appreciated.


If time or money is of any concern in an endeavor, a test or experiment that clearly disproves a hypothesis is greatly valued and the sooner the better. If it's your idea, your pride might take a little hit but a team player will take it in stride for the good of the organization.

At home in your kitchen, priorities and goals might be different; such a test might deprive you of hours of pleasure exploring the possibilities.
 
What you describe as a "low res photo from the internet" has a history that belies your put-down description. First I went to the Shroud Scope photoarchive of Durante 2002 colour images. I first increased magnification, stopping just short of obvious pixellation...

So, low resolution it is.
 
What you describe as a "low res photo from the internet" has a history that belies your put-down description. First I went to the Shroud Scope photoarchive of Durante 2002 colour images. I first increased magnification, stopping just short of obvious pixellation, then improved the contrast using 4 of the contrast (not colour!) controls on my MS Office Picture Manager. That alone was sufficient to show up the particle field in virtually all body image regions that to the best of my knowledge has never been commented on previously. The final step was to apply Zeke, which as seen earlier greatly accentuates the particles without creating new artefacts.

I rest my case: Zeke has opened up a new window on the Shroud, showing the image to be biphasic. That applies incidentally to both body image AND blood (or "blood").

You read it here first.
So you used a lo-res image, zoomed in to just the point of pixel visibility (the pixels are still there BTW), fiddled with sliders you didn't understand until you got a result you liked that you could interpret however you liked.

Do you have even the vaguest clue how image compression works? or what compression artefacts are? or how they originate?

Do you understand that you are using the exact same methodology as the moon hoax people use to show glass towers and cities on the moon?
 
Maybe Walter McCrone was right after all, when claiming the body image was particulate, even if unaware of the distinction between particulate and stain-like post--particulate. Maybe he missed the faint yellow stain that remains after a particulate precursor has partly or completely worn away, seeing only the parts of fibres where it hasn't flaked away.


Let me assure you Dr. McCrone knew the difference between a particle and a stain under a microscope. If you would take the time to read his paper, you would know he noted yellowish discoloration (staining) of the shroud fibers from the image areas, in the process of analyzing the the chromophore particles.
 
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OK, I've started to append the before-and- after Zeke images to my much clicked-upon 2012 posting, which if nothing else should demonstrate the importance I attach to this specific colour filter.

Sorry if folk here (well, some at any rate) consider it pseudoscience.

Accusing others, or being accused of pseudoscience is part of the territory where new scientific research is concerned. I'm quietly confident that Zeke provides the answer to much that has previously eluded Shroud investigators. Let's see how things pan out...

It'll be interesting to see whether Zeke rears its ugly head at the forthcoming International Shroud conference, scheduled for July 18 at the TRAC Center, Pasco, Tri- Cities, Washington State, USA (co-organizers Bob Rucker and Mark Antonacci. Given its accompanying literature, promoting nuclear radiation-based imaging from both co-organizers, I'd guess not, but one must always live in hope (even if one's emails go unanswered!)
 
........Sorry if folk here (well, some at any rate) consider it pseudoscience.......

It doesn't rise to that level, I'm afraid. Really, get some independent advice on this before you commit to something which will only cause you deep embarassment.
 
OK, I've started to append the before-and- after Zeke images to my much clicked-upon 2012 posting, which if nothing else should demonstrate the importance I attach to this specific colour filter.

Sorry if folk here (well, some at any rate) consider it pseudoscience.
It is pseudoscience.

Accusing others, or being accused of pseudoscience is part of the territory where new scientific research is concerned. I'm quietly confident that Zeke provides the answer to much that has previously eluded Shroud investigators. Let's see how things pan out...
Well you shouldn't be. Zeke is not a professional level tool, it is a vanity tool for amateurs to fiddle with their photographs at home. It is in no way applicable to the task you propose.

It'll be interesting to see whether Zeke rears its ugly head at the forthcoming International Shroud conference, scheduled for July 18 at the TRAC Center, Pasco, Tri- Cities, Washington State, USA (co-organizers Bob Rucker and Mark Antonacci. Given its accompanying literature, promoting nuclear radiation-based imaging from both co-organizers, I'd guess not, but one must always live in hope (even if one's emails go unanswered!)
If it does, it will render whoever raises it as a laughing stock.
 
You have one strand to your argument which may or may not be really interesting and plausible (the baked flour stuff). The other, imaging, is utter bollocks. You put at risk any interest you might generate in the former by sticking doggedly to the latter. Only the worst kind of cranks would give any credence whatever to your imaging nonsense..........do you really want to put yourself in with "life on Mars" nutters?
 
Did either of them lose sleep over whether the idea of inheritance being controlled by a particular polynucleotide with a genetic code, dependent on the sequence of just two base-pairs, AT and GC, was falsifiable? I doubt it somehow.

Probably not, because they managed to make it falsifiable.

Look, this isn't complicated: everything that exists can be imagined not to exist within a certain set of parameters. "I ate pizza yesterday" is falsifiable because there's a way to find out, in real life, that I didn't. Look through my trash, my intestins, my blood, my bills, the local pizza shops, etc.

Every true statement has this.
 

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