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Common Bad Beliefs Among Atheists?

Cosmic Yak said:
Not an objection, but a request for clarification:
Are you asking us to address bad beliefs held by atheists because they are atheists, or those which happen to be more common among atheists than theists?
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The highlighted. But if there are any examples of the former, that's fine too.

Here's another I remembered on the way to work this morning:

Religion was just created to control people.

While this may be true in some cases (Scientology being an obvious example), and it might be true that religion is sometimes used as a control mechanism, the purpose behind a religion's genesis is not so cut and dry. At best, it's historically ignorant. The earliest Christians, for example, did not benefit greatly from their beliefs; they suffered. At worst, it's conspiratorial - just more parroting of Zeitgeist.
 
I Am The Scum said:
Because I'm curious about the trends between the different groups. For example, in my experience, anti-science views are more common among theists. But theism, inherently, has nothing to do with science (for or against).

And let just spell out exactly why I made this thread, as clearly as I can manage:

1. One of my goals in life is to criticize bad ideas, wherever I find them.
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It is a bad idea to assume that atheists form a group.

2. There are measurable differences between theists and atheists, and some of those differences are not strictly related to theism or atheism.
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Are there? Which?

3. The claims of theists get plenty of scrutiny on this forum, and that's great.
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...


4. In the interest of having our criticism more well-rounded, I would like to explore the claims of atheists.
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Since atheists do not form a distinct group, the only common claim is that god does not exist.

Hans
 
I Am The Scum said:
Because I'm curious about the trends between the different groups. For example, in my experience, anti-science views are more common among theists. But theism, inherently, has nothing to do with science (for or against).

And let just spell out exactly why I made this thread, as clearly as I can manage:

1. One of my goals in life is to criticize bad ideas, wherever I find them.
2. There are measurable differences between theists and atheists, and some of those differences are not strictly related to theism or atheism.
3. The claims of theists get plenty of scrutiny on this forum, and that's great.
4. In the interest of having our criticism more well-rounded, I would like to explore the claims of atheists.

Absolutely nothing I say here should be interpreted as making claims of something that all atheists say or do.

If anybody has objections to 1 through 4, please let me know.
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I have absolutely no problem with number 1. But 2, 3 and 4 are kind of nonsensical.

There is only 1 specific difference between theists and atheists and that whether they believe there is a God. Atheists are not a group. There is no church of atheism. No dogma. We don't chant "there is no god". Nobody tithes.

In many ways I hate the term atheist. You don't believe in leprechauns or fairies do you? Do you refer to yourself as an a-leprechaun or an a-fairy? I don't believe in those things either. Does that mean you're a liberal or a conservative? Can I tell anything else about you because you don't believe in leprechauns? I don't either. Does that make us a group?
 
I Am The Scum said:
....snip... I would like to explore the claims of atheists.

...snip...
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But there is only one thing that could even be considered a claim "of atheists" and that is the answer to the question "Which god or gods do you believe exist?" Answer: "None".
 
I think it's really strange how much pushback I'm getting from the idea that there is such a thing as a set of atheists on this planet, and that the tendencies of that set can be analyzed. Would anyone disagree with any of the following:

1. Atheists are less likely than theists to go to church on Sunday morning.
2. Atheists are less likely than theists to believe in the power of intercessory prayer.
3. Atheists are more likely than theists to critically analyze the predominant religion of their family or society.

There is nothing "inherent to atheism" in any of the above. Regardless, they are most likely true.
 
I Am The Scum said:
I think it's really strange how much pushback I'm getting from the idea that there is such a thing as a set of atheists on this planet, and that the tendencies of that set can be analyzed. Would anyone disagree with any of the following:

1. Atheists are less likely than theists to go to church on Sunday morning.
2. Atheists are less likely than theists to believe in the power of intercessory prayer.
3. Atheists are more likely than theists to critically analyze the predominant religion of their family or society.

There is nothing "inherent to atheism" in any of the above. Regardless, they are most likely true.
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There is no set of atheists. That's the point . And of course I agree with those 3 points but they are pretty much self explanatory as they are all about the gods we don't believe in. We’re also not likely to knock on people's doors spreading the good news or tithe religious organizations or eat crackers and wine pretending they are the blood and flesh of Socrates or Thomas Paine.

But then you didn't need me to tell you that. You might find traits outside of religion that most atheists share, but I don't know what that tells you. I belong to a couple of atheists groups and most of the members tend to be more liberal, but I know of a few libertarians. Penn Jillette is a well known libertarian atheists. I disagree with him on just about everything except religion.
 
acbytesla said:
There is no set of atheists.
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I'm sorry, you have totally lost me. Think of it this way:

1. Suppose we start with an empty room.
2. Matt Dillahunty and David Silverman walk into that room.
3. Don't we now have a "set of 2 atheists in the room?"

If you're fine with that, just imagine we broaden the scope of the "room" until we aren't talking about a small, confined space, but rather, the entire planet. Wouldn't this be the set of all atheists?
 
I Am The Scum said:
I'm sorry, you have totally lost me. Think of it this way:

1. Suppose we start with an empty room.
2. Matt Dillahunty and David Silverman walk into that room.
3. Don't we now have a "set of 2 atheists in the room?"

If you're fine with that, just imagine we broaden the scope of the "room" until we aren't talking about a small, confined space, but rather, the entire planet. Wouldn't this be the set of all atheists?
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I don't know who those people are but would you also want to ask the same about the set of people that don't collect stamps?
 
I Am The Scum said:
I'm sorry, you have totally lost me. Think of it this way:

1. Suppose we start with an empty room.
2. Matt Dillahunty and David Silverman walk into that room.
3. Don't we now have a "set of 2 atheists in the room?"

If you're fine with that, just imagine we broaden the scope of the "room" until we aren't talking about a small, confined space, but rather, the entire planet. Wouldn't this be the set of all atheists?
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Sure, but so what? You can group people any way you want. But you are doing the grouping, not the atheists. If you added Penn Jillette you would have 3 atheists. But don't pretend they share characteristics outside of non-belief in a deity. Matt I know to be a liberal Democrat, but Jillette is a Libertarian. Ayn Rand and Bill Maher is as different as day is to night but both are atheists. Isaac Newton and Pierre Laplace were both brilliant physicists and mathematicians, but Newton held a strong belief in God whereas Laplace was an atheist.

Maybe you could find traits that are somewhat in common with people that profess to be atheists but I wouldn't draw any conclusions other then they don't believe in god or gods.
 
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acbytesla said:
Sure, but so what? You can group people any way you want. But you are doing the grouping, not the atheists. If you added Penn Jillette you would have 3 atheists. But don't pretend they share characteristics outside of non-belief in a deity. Matt I know to be a liberal Democrat, but Jillette is a Libertarian. Ayn Rand and Bill Maher is as different as day is to night but both are atheists. Isaac Newton and Pierre Laplace were both brilliant physicists and mathematicians, but Newton held a strong belief in God whereas Laplace was an atheist.

Maybe you could find traits that are somewhat in common with people that profess to be atheists but I wouldn't draw any conclusions other then they don't believe in god or gods.
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Do you honestly believe that I am attempting to make blanket statements about atheists in this thread?
 
I Am The Scum said:
I think it's really strange how much pushback I'm getting from the idea that there is such a thing as a set of atheists on this planet, and that the tendencies of that set can be analyzed. Would anyone disagree with any of the following:

1. Atheists are less likely than theists to go to church on Sunday morning.
2. Atheists are less likely than theists to believe in the power of intercessory prayer.
3. Atheists are more likely than theists to critically analyze the predominant religion of their family or society.

There is nothing "inherent to atheism" in any of the above. Regardless, they are most likely true.
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1 and 2 are obvious.

3 may be true, although it will also apply to theists of a different religion than the local prominent, and is thus not characteristic to atheists.

Hans
 
If any of you could point out where I even imply that most/all atheists believe [whatever], I'd be really impressed.

Or you could focus on what I'm actually saying. At this point, I think I would find that impressive, as well.
 
I Am The Scum said:
If any of you could point out where I even imply that most/all atheists believe [whatever], I'd be really impressed.

Or you could focus on what I'm actually saying. At this point, I think I would find that impressive, as well.
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You aren't declaring anything, but the question seem as a search to put us in a box.
 
I Am The Scum said:
If any of you could point out where I even imply that most/all atheists believe [whatever], I'd be really impressed.
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Granted, the title is rather awkward: "Common Bad Beliefs Among Athiests."

I don't know what you intended to write, but this is what I think the rest of us are reading: "Bad Beliefs Common Among Atheists."

Now do you see?

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Have you found any common bad beliefs that are held by atheists yet? Or any bad beliefs that are common to atheists?

If so, what are they?
 
Here's one irrational thing I see several atheists doing right now: thinking that everything someone says about atheist/atheists/atheism, including questions as well as statements, must be some kind of an attack.
 
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