“This is what tolerance looks like at UC Berkeley”

sunmaster14 said:
Given the size of the university, and the small number of people participating in the protest, it should have been a simple matter for the campus police to provide adequate security.
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I agree. It was common knowledge his appearance would coincide with protests. Whether poor planning or a poor policy for protest/riot police on campus, it shouldn't have escalated from what was a small portion of the student population causing trouble.


Giz said:
I think that minimizes things a bit. Both from the population involved and the effect of the action in shutting down free speech. Imagine if it had been a little southern town of 38,000 rednecks and they responded to a black family moving in by having 1,500 KKK show up and burn a cross (albeit less than 1500 would actually be lighting fires)... we wouldn't be saying that it was 'at most 4% of the town turning up and even less burning stuff so there's no need for the Feds to take a look' - we'd be saying that it was a cesspit of hate and change is needed.
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This is just a terrible analogy. Students protesting a controversial figure is equivalent to the KKK in a small town rallying in front of a black family burning crosses? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you just hastily threw together a counter point but honestly, that is not close to a comparable situation.

As to the Feds coming in to make a change, what specific thing are we going to be hoping they do exactly? Squash civil protests as a defense for freedom of speech? No good there. Take over local law enforcement to react to civil unrest in a harsher way? With what authority? Can't have Feds waiting for something to happen at every college in the country.

Seems like something local government should be handling. Whatever damage is done, there will be a cost to someone. Let them have their voices heard if they want any specific changes to ensure it doesn't happen again.
 
sadhatter said:
I'll explain that.

Add someone who does not support these types of actions in any form I know those that do tend to not care about beginning fair to the other side (no worse than right wing extremists in my opinion) ,so we are trying to show them that they are not kicking the other side in the nuts but shooting our side in the foot.
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Here's the problem. They don't support or care about you one bit more than that 'other side.'

You are useful to them in terms of having someone to hide behind and take batons to the face for them after they throw the brick and run away like cowards.

If you object to being used like that, they'll say you're not showing solidarity with them. If you refuse to engage in violence with them, they'll say you lack resolve. If you ask them to stop throwing bricks, they'll tell you how dare you oppress them. If you eject them from your march, they'll say you're traitors. If you finger them to the cops for committing crimes and threatening the public goodwill of your movement, they'll call you collaborators.

Are you seeing a pattern here?
 
Joking aside,I find that some people here think violence is OK to keep someone from speaking to be disgusting. Frankly, they are no better then Trump when it comes to free speech.
 
Praktik said:
First, they came for the homosexual proto-fascist internet celebrities, but since I wasn't a homosexual proto-fascist internet celebrity - I said nothing...
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a homosexual proto-fascist internet celebrity has the same right to free speech as anybody else.
I find the people who..quite rightly.condemn Trump for his attacks on free speech but then approve the Berkeley actions to be incredible hypocrites.
 
TragicMonkey said:
And you appear to be mistaking a few smashed windows for 'an actual shooting war'.
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Like I said, smashed windows are just another day in Berkeley.


I condemn the actions, don't get me wrong, but it is just to be expected in Bersekley.
 
dudalb said:
a homosexual proto-fascist internet celebrity has the same right to free speech as anybody else.
I find the people who..quite rightly.condemn Trump for his attacks on free speech but then approve the Berkeley actions to be incredible hypocrites.
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I like imagining all the hypocrites out there too. Reinforces my beliefs and all, cause typically my imagined hypocrisy in another has a mirror image of no such hypocrisy in my beliefs on the same subject.

I guess I just genuinely see all this stuff as a tempest in a teapot - if people wanna hear milo they still can.

THis is more culture war flashpoint, and this thread demonstrates that quite quickly - than it is a signal event in the eternal fight for the protection of individual rights from adverse rollback.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.... I guess?

Wake me up when there's something interesting happening...
 
Giz said:
While true, it doesn't make it right.
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I agree, it is just sort of this happens about once a year in Berkeley over some issue. It is just getting massive publicity this time.
Andother Norcal saying: "It is always 1968 in Berkeley".
But that riot footage was close to a really good Indian Restaurant in Berkeley;hope it was not damaged. They do a great Chicken Marsala.
 
The Big Dog said:
and that makes the Black Shirts attacking them, what exactly?
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Heroic fighters in the struggle against the Muslim Kenyan black atheist America hating socialist racist anti-white fascist super nazi white supremacist racist mansplaining manspreading culturally appropriating misogynistic patriarchy loving President.
 
The Big Dog said:
and that makes the Black Shirts attacking them, what exactly?
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When someone is saying they want to deprive you of the home and life you have built in America would you be polite in your response? It's a question of perspective. You think you're protecting America, they are rightly fearful of their future. I don't agree with their tactics, but I do understand them.
 
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acbytesla said:
I'm not sure where you came up with your statistics. I'd bet that they were pulled out of someone's ass.
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After a bit of digging, they seem to have been posted by last week by Breitbart, who was quoting the San Diego Union-Tribune, who were probably referencing an online survey done by Berkeley in 2015.

I'm providing that simply as information; I am not going to defend the reliability of online surveys or the relevance of a 2015 survey to the current political environment.

/derail
 
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