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President Trump: Part II

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Grizzly Bear said:
Yet again, I'm not certain if I'm worried more about Trump, or the populism that got him elected. I saw this as "populism vote" stage II (Obama got it the first time on the Hope and change line). His precedent opens up the possibility we see this ramp up in the future. Either way... people kept underestimating him, I'm sort of done at this point even attempting to suggest congress will get a leash on him, although the small silver lining to this is his activity could divide both parties against him, and that sort of oversight/unity in congress has been badly lacking as of late.
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Lord knows I don't want to rerun the 2008 election again but I will say I don't think Obama's win was based on populism. Hell, all candidates have a catchy slogan. No, the Dems could've won by running a head of wilted cabbage against Bush 43.
 
deadrose said:
I'm a little surprised by the lack of response to Bannon's security council coup. After all, he's the one that "corrected" Trump's immigration order so it applied to current green card holders. He's the known white nationalist, who just punted the Joint Chiefs of Staff off the council and gave himself a seat. He's quite possibly the one writing most of these executive orders, and he's busy burrowing deep into positions of power and getting rid of people who have the authority to stop him.

Doesn't this alarm you people just a bit, or are you too busy quibbling over something Clinton, Bush or Obama might or might not have done?
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Personally, I'm not even sure if it's legal for them to do that - they clearly didn't think of law or the constitution with their Muslim Ban stunt. So I'll wait for the moment.
 
newyorkguy said:
It seems to be true that a significant portion of people who voted for Obama in 2008/2012 voted for Trump this time around.
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I think it's a tad different. Too many of those who voted for Obama just stayed home and didn't vote at all. And all those "deplorables" who never voted in the past because "they're all the same" saw a fellow bigot and voted for once.
 
SezMe said:
Lord knows I don't want to rerun the 2008 election again but I will say I don't think Obama's win was based on populism. Hell, all candidates have a catchy slogan. No, the Dems could've won by running a head of wilted cabbage against Bush 43.
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If anything, it was based on McCain's weird reaction to the financial crisis, the crisis itself turning opinion against the GOP, and Sarah Palin being...Sarah Paliny.
 
SezMe said:
Lord knows I don't want to rerun the 2008 election again but I will say I don't think Obama's win was based on populism. Hell, all candidates have a catchy slogan. No, the Dems could've won by running a head of wilted cabbage against Bush 43.
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What are you talking about?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Wrong question. How long until the GOP realizes just how badly they ********** up jumping in this guy's clown car and move to get rid of him?
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Not for a while. While Trump is taking all of the media's attention, they are busy passing bills that they've wanted for a very long time. Trump is the misdirection they've needed.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Trump is used to just giving orders. Let's see how he adjusts to checks and balances.
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Indeed. All through the campaign he claimed "I" am the only one who can fix that. No "we", no "us Republicans", no "I will work with Congress". I don't blame him for that at all, that is his experience in life.

But he may be President but he's not CEO of the government. When the law, the Congress or the bureaucracy don't bend to his will, that will be when he fails as a leader.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Not for a while. While Trump is taking all of the media's attention, they are busy passing bills that they've wanted for a very long time. Trump is the misdirection they've needed.
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I'll see your Kings and raise you one Russian wild card:

Russian spy Oleg Erovinkin linked to Donald Trump’s ‘dirty dossier’ found dead in Moscow

Looks like Comey has a second chance at redemption.
A FORMER KGB spy chief suspected of helping Brit spook Christopher Steele compile the Donald Trump ‘dirty dossier’ has been found dead in mysterious circumstances.
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A comment I heard (here or ???) is that one could tell the validity of the Russian charges by Putin's actions. (Could have been on Rachel Maddow.) This sure says a mouthful.
 
deadrose said:
I'm a little surprised by the lack of response to Bannon's security council coup. After all, he's the one that "corrected" Trump's immigration order so it applied to current green card holders. He's the known white nationalist, who just punted the Joint Chiefs of Staff off the council and gave himself a seat. He's quite possibly the one writing most of these executive orders, and he's busy burrowing deep into positions of power and getting rid of people who have the authority to stop him.

Doesn't this alarm you people just a bit, or are you too busy quibbling over something Clinton, Bush or Obama might or might not have done?
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I scares me ********...

It's not just Bannon, it'S Kushner, too.
They are a dream team from Hell.

And yes, anti-nepotisms laws after JFK should make this illegal.
 
Doghouse Reilly said:
I don't think this is really a good example. Her stay only applies to those caught in limbo, having embarked on travel prior to the issuance of the order. The Constitution is pretty clear on the power of the Executive office to have free rein on barring people from entering the country, so I doubt he's going to face many problems in this area.
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That's not my understanding at all.

Which clause would you cite to support executive jurisdiction over immigration?

The courts have made it rather clear that Congress has "plenary and unqualified power" in regards to immigration, naturalization, and related foreign policy.

The Executive may exercise discretion where the law allows for it, but cannot set policy outright. This is why Republicans wailing and gnashing their teeth about Obama's Deferred Action memorandum was so silly to me. The discretion to 'alter the status' of a resident if they met certain qualifications (minimum period of residence, no criminal record, parent/child/spouse U.S. citizen, etc) was given to the Attorney General by Congress, Obama simply told him (and the relevant agencies) to use that allowed consideration in as many cases as they could apply it to. Those rules were put into place by Congress after Reagan and Bush, Sr. issued orders creating that basic framework after the big immigration reform bill in the early 80s was resulting in separation of families, etc. Then Congress finally formalized it into law.

So if anything, Reagan and Bush overstepped their authority (which is sort of the strategic point of the EO, it's a 'put up or shut up' card so Congress can't just sit on their hands forever) while Obama actually did have every right to use the power Congress allowed him.

Now, there is a downside to this for those who don't think there should be ethnicity/religious/national origin discrimination in our immigration policies.

Current interpretation is that immigration is basically an inherent power of a sovereign and few to no restrictions apply (even the broad ones like Equal Protection and Due Process) as the plenary/sovereign powers (the state) supersede any agreements among the people about government powers and limitations (so sayeth the court organized under said agreement).

That means that yes, quotas and classes of non-citizens or resident aliens have no protections.
 
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Beelzebuddy said:
No they won't. That is the lesson I've taken from this election. People no longer care about the whole story, or what can be read between the lines.

Turn on CNN, or your 24-hour news bacchanalia of choice. See that ticker at the bottom? That's what people pay attention to now. That's the story. That's the ENTIRE story. If you "let him have his say," then he will have had his say and no one is paying attention anymore to your surgical evisceration. If you want to say "he is a liar," you literally have to call him a liar because you don't have the luxury of subtlety.

I'll echo wareyin: look to Fox News to see how it's done.
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The victory of the lowest common denominator?
 
Meadmaker said:
We have President Trump because an awful lot of people felt alienated and attacked by the Democratic Party. I think the Democrats could have stuck to their core principles without alienating so many people.
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Nothing to do with the Republican Party's choice of candidate then?
 
logger said:
You really have to be drinking the Kool-aide to think a different president could have prevented deaths in Katrina.
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I think usually it's the response to Katrina that Bush is being blamed for. Certainly deaths would have resulted from such a poor response.
 
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Argumemnon said:
I think usually it's the response to Katrina that Bush is being blamed for. Certainly deaths would have resulted from such a poor response.
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Obama would have prevented Katrina from doing any damage with an Executive Order. :D

It's amazing the amount of straw some people will conjure up.
 
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