President Trump: Part II

[Skeptic Ginger]

I keep holding on to some kind of optimism that he won't be the train wreck I've been afraid of. He is so unbelievably arrogant and delusional it's hard to believe this moron is actually President. I keep hoping that there is a method to his madness which might result in some good policies. But that hope is dwindling because I really think this guy is seriously disturbed.

First off, the only method to his madness can be found in the DSM V.

But as to the other, I keep fluctuating between surely the GOP Congress can contain the damage to, gawd Pence was just at the pro-life conference and the GOP finagled a SCOTUS pick that was rightfully Obama's to, this alt-reality cannot possibly be real.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Stopped me. I went Libertarian, at least their candidate wasn't a dangerous narcissist bent on wasteful spending, anti-free market solutions, and an un-American approach to personal liberties.

I do so hope that was in a guaranteed blue or red state and not in any with remotely close numbers.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Yet again, I'm not certain if I'm worried more about Trump, or the populism that got him elected. I saw this as "populism vote" stage II (Obama got it the first time on the Hope and change line). His precedent opens up the possibility we see this ramp up in the future. Either way... people kept underestimating him, I'm sort of done at this point even attempting to suggest congress will get a leash on him, although the small silver lining to this is his activity could divide both parties against him, and that sort of oversight/unity in congress has been badly lacking as of late.

 

[LSSBB]

I do so hope that was in a guaranteed blue or red state and not in any with remotely close numbers.

Does not matter to me, I vote for who I think is the best candidate.

In any case, my state is overwhelmingly run by a Democratic machine. My congressional district has been gerrymandered to keep a former Black Panther in office.

 

[acbytesla]

First off, the only method to his madness can be found in the DSM V.
But as to the other, I keep fluctuating between surely the GOP Congress can contain the damage to, gawd Pence was just at the pro-life conference and the GOP finagled a SCOTUS pick that was rightfully Obama's to, this alt-reality cannot possibly be real.

Sorry, DSM V?

I'm sorry, it absolutely can be real. Go back and read 'The rise and fall of third reich'. Trump is not Hitler, but he is running Hitler's playbook. That people are willing to follow him almost zombie like despite his blatant lying is getting scary. The way he has turned the press into the enemy eliminates the check the press provides. The way they are so willing to present 'alternative facts' means actual truth is irrelevant. I feel like the thesis I wrote in college 30 years ago is coming true. I hypothesized that our democracy was much more fragile then people realized and that even the US wasn't immune to a demagogue destroying it. I showed how Hitler managed to eliminate his adversaries starting with the press.

But here's the thing. I'm not saying this to scare people, I'm saying it inform them that we must remain vigilant against the erosion of our values. Because we could wake up next year or the year after and it could be gone.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Does not matter to me, I vote for who I think is the best candidate.

In any case, my state is overwhelmingly run by a Democratic machine. My congressional district has been gerrymandered to keep a former Black Panther in office.

OK, the past is the past. But in the future, best option given the circumstances should be your criteria rather than some idealistic goal. Please.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Sorry, DSM V?

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fifth edition.

I'm sorry, it absolutely can be real.

I was being facetious.

Go back and read 'The rise and fall of third reich'. Trump is not Hitler, but he is running Hitler's playback. That people are willing to follow him almost zombie like despite his blatant lying is getting scary. The way he has turned the press into the enemy eliminates the check the press provides. The way they are so willing to present 'alternative facts' means actual truth is irrelevant. I feel like the thesis I wrote in college 30 years ago is coming true. I hypothesized that our democracy was much more fragile then people realized and that even the US wasn't immune to a demagogue destroying it. I showed how Hitler managed to eliminate his adversaries starting with the press.

But here's the thing. I'm not saying this to scare people, I'm saying it inform them that we must remain vigilant against the erosion of our values. Because we could wake up next year or the year after and it could be gone.

I don't think we are seeing the next Hitler, far from it. People are not following a dictator, an unfortunate series of events has led idiots in this country to elect a con artist. Germany in the 30s is simply not relevant.

I think we are seeing an idiot and the checks and balances will make a difference.

 

[acbytesla]

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fifth edition.

I was being facetious.



I don't think we are seeing the next Hitler, far from it. People are not following a dictator, an unfortunate series of events has led idiots in this country to elect a con artist. Germany in the 30s is simply not relevant.

I think we are seeing an idiot and the checks and balances will make a difference.

I'm not saying this is Germany in the 30. I'm saying be vigilant to ensure it isn't. What is it that Edmund Burke said. I think it goes 'The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing'.

This will be a major test for those checks and balances.

 

[Pixel42]

Mussolini is a closer parallel than Hitler but the death of John Hurt has reminded me of an even closer one. I'm going to spend the next four years (or however long he lasts) waiting for him to appoint his horse to the Senate.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Without changing his policies, there is one thing Trump could do much better:

http://www.gq.com/story/donald-trump-presidential-makeover

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

This is more of the anti-Clinton narrative. Somehow she failed the blue collar worker, the rust belt, the real America, whatever. Michael Moore claims she didn't come to Michigan. Didn't Clinton make several visits to Flint?

In hindsight one can always say a campaign was weak in the states that ended up counting.

Clinton lost by a small margin in three states while winning a large margin in the popular vote altogether.

Clinton believes the Comey letter was the critical factor. I also believe failure to counter Comey's letter with the proper amount of outrage was the critical factor. It all comes down to marketing messages/narratives and the Democrats have yet to hire the best marketers for their POTUS campaigns while the Republicans have been spectacular at it since Reagan's Morning in America.

Obama vs McCain and Romney were the exceptions. I had so hoped Clinton learned from Obama but it would appear she hadn't.

I agree with Clinton. She was on an upswing before Comey's letter. It would have been damaging at any stage but the timing was devastating. To many, it seemed to confirm or at least reinforce all the accusations against her. They won't even have taken in the details it would just scream 'Crooked Hillary'. Choosing to go public with that whilst keeping Stum on possible links between Trump and Russia was crass political meddling.

Much, more impact than the deplorable comment imho - and I still don't get the logic there: it basically seems to be saying Trump can continuously spout hateful things against entire nationalities or religions but because Hillary 'slipped up' and actually criticised a segment of the people supporting those hateful things, then that's the terrible mistake that cost her the election.

Mind you, there seems to be a lot of holding everyone other than Trump to high standards whilst he's allowed to plumb ever deeper lows. Reinforces that fascinating but worrying article someone posted of how the brain gives up filtering lies if enough of them are thrown out...

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fifth edition.

I was being facetious.



I don't think we are seeing the next Hitler, far from it. People are not following a dictator, an unfortunate series of events has led idiots in this country to elect a con artist. Germany in the 30s is simply not relevant.

I think we are seeing an idiot and the checks and balances will make a difference.

Actually I think that is another factor. People like Trump (and Farage in the UK) have realised there's a substantial idiot* vote out there that normally can't be bothered to vote but if you can push their buttons and mobilise them it brings a new factor into play that can tip the balance.

*To be clear I'm not saying everyone who voted Trump / Brexit was an idiot** but that tapping into that undereducated, politically naive and usually non-active pool*** added enough to tip the balance.
**Though it's hard not to come to that conclusion with Trump.
***Stagnant pond in the case of Brexiteers where I live - bar a handful who had considered reasons for voting leave, the vast majority cited 'foreigners nicking our jobs' in an area with the lowest levels of immigration in the country and the highest European aid!

 

[Craig B]

I don't think we are seeing the next Hitler, far from it. People are not following a dictator, an unfortunate series of events has led idiots in this country to elect a con artist. Germany in the 30s is simply not relevant.

I think we are seeing an idiot and the checks and balances will make a difference.

Various people have raised that concern with me recently, and my reply has been much the same as yours, but expressed differently. The US constitution is not degraded by the effect of economic crisis as much as was that of the Weimar Republic post 1930. But also, Trump doesn't have a mass fascist organisation on the ground comparable with the SA. So he may have the will, but he may not - I fervently hope not - have the opportunity to perform a Hitler-style "coup in office".

 

[Darat]

I'm not calling for any great sacrifice. Just saying that next time:
- don't run a deeply flawed candidate (yes, yes, I agree that she wasn't as flawed as Trump)
- Don't insult the people who aren't already signed up with you

That's simple sales advice. But I guess self-righteous sneering is more fun.

Given your comments why does it matter if their next candidate is flawed or not, you seem to saying being flawed isn't an impediment to getting elected.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Stopped me. I went Libertarian...

Stopped me. I withheld my vote for President.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

A message to Trump from the Mayor of Berlin:

“Berlin, the city of Europe’s division, the city of Europe’s freedom, cannot silently look on as a country sets about building a new wall. We Berliners know better than most about the pain caused when a whole continent is split by barbed wire and walls. Our division destroyed the prospects of millions … we cannot let all our historical experience get trashed by the very people to whom we owe much of our freedom: the Americans … I call on the president of the United States not to go down that road to isolation and ostracism … remember your forerunner, Ronald Reagan. Remember his words: ‘Tear down this wall.’ And so I say: Dear Mr. President, don’t build this wall! “

 

[Darat]

...snip...
***Stagnant pond in the case of Brexiteers where I live - bar a handful who had considered reasons for voting leave, the vast majority cited 'foreigners nicking our jobs' in an area with the lowest levels of immigration in the country and the highest European aid!

It does seem to be that those areas with more immigration are less against immigration, it's almost as if the invoking fear of immigration is lessened when you live with the actual reality....

 

[Fast Eddie B]

This is more of the anti-Clinton narrative. Somehow she failed the blue collar worker, the rust belt, the real America, whatever. Michael Moore claims she didn't come to Michigan. Didn't Clinton make several visits to Flint?

In hindsight one can always say a campaign was weak in the states that ended up counting.

Is not a review of how she lost the general election by necessity an exercise in hindsight?

 

[Giz]

A message to Trump from the Mayor of Berlin:

“Berlin, the city of Europe’s division, the city of Europe’s freedom, cannot silently look on as a country sets about building a new wall. We Berliners know better than most about the pain caused when a whole continent is split by barbed wire and walls. Our division destroyed the prospects of millions … we cannot let all our historical experience get trashed by the very people to whom we owe much of our freedom: the Americans … I call on the president of the United States not to go down that road to isolation and ostracism … remember your forerunner, Ronald Reagan. Remember his words: ‘Tear down this wall.’ And so I say: Dear Mr. President, don’t build this wall! “

Jeez, the mayor of Berlin appears to not know his city's history. The Berlin Wall was to imprison their own citizens. Trumps wall is supposed to keep illegal immigrants out (and controlling immigration/borders has long been considered an uncontroversial part of a nation state's powers).

 

[Andy_Ross]

Without changing his policies, there is one thing Trump could do much better:

http://www.gq.com/story/donald-trump-presidential-makeover

Quite right, he looks like he is wearing someone else's suit.
Button your jacket you chump, get to a tailor and let him fit your suit. Just becsuse it was expensive doesn't mean it fits off the peg.
If it has bern tailored then either his tailor is incompetent or hates him.