President Trump: Part II

[Emily's Cat]

It's not belittling to describe reality. It's simply describing reality.

No, you're not describing reality. You're describing a narrative. You're describing a narrative that says "Trump supporters are racists", "Trump supporters are dumb", "Trump supporters are deplorable". That's not reality, it's a spin on reality that furthers a political agenda.

And trying to insist that it's "reality" that the other side are racists IS belittling and insulting.

FFS, even when we are given incredibly good run-downs of *why* a particular person or group of people voted for Trump, from their perspective, there's a tendency for those on the more Democratic party side of the line to recast them as divorced from reality, dumb, stupid, racist, ignorant, redneck, etc.

Even when people straight up tell you "we didn't vote for Hillary because she referred to an entire half the country as deplorables" you want to argue that it's actually because they really are deplorable, and they shouldn't be offended by being called deplorable because that's just reality.

 

[Emily's Cat]

One side is considerably worse. False equvivalences are equally damaging as polarization.

At the moment, yes. One side is behaving quite a bit worse. That would be the side that refuses to listen and repeatedly and willfully casts their opponent as bigoted ignorant deplorables... and then insists that such commentary shouldn't be insulting because it's "reality".

 

[Bob001]

Jesus, what's he going to be like if he has to handover after the next election, one termed and reviled?

What makes you think he'd leave? He'd claim that everyone who voted against him was illegal, and "the people" want him to stay. I guess you'd have to go to the D.C. courts and get an order of eviction. Can you imagine U.S. marshals stacking his stuff on the sidewalk?

 

[Meadmaker]

Even when people straight up tell you "we didn't vote for Hillary because she referred to an entire half the country as deplorables" you want to argue that it's actually because they really are deplorable, and they shouldn't be offended by being called deplorable because that's just reality.

The interesting thing about that quote is that she didn't do that. The full "deplorables" quote went on for about two paragraphs, and said almost the opposite of how the out of context sound bite sounded.

Sometimes I feel sorry for politicians.

 

[dudalb]

I am beginning to wonder if logger is not actually somebody on the left,out to make people on the right look as bad as possible.

 

[seayakin]

I am beginning to wonder if logger is not actually somebody on the left,out to make people on the right look as bad as possible.

I've wondered that. He is a caricature.

 

[Upchurch]

I am beginning to wonder if logger is not actually somebody on the left,out to make people on the right look as bad as possible.

A variation on Poe?

 

[quadraginta]

We might never know the true results, especially if we have to depend on the White House for accurate reports. But this affects the lives of every State employee, every American who travels abroad, and U.S. international interests. And the thing is that it's not at all necessary. Government agencies have plenty of experience at accommodating a smooth transition. Pres Obama went to great lengths to assure that Pres Trump would enjoy a smooth transition. There's no reason why Trump can't treat other government employees (and he is a government employee) the same way.

You're saying he should be more like Obama?

Don't hold your breath.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I'm beginning to wonder if Trump is confusing trying to convince everyone he has a big dick with convincing everyone he is a big dick. Because he's quite convincing on the latter.

 

[Emily's Cat]

A state has responsibilities and duties to the population of the state, but the state does not, or should not, have a separate and distinct vote on state actions.

In my opinion, the state does, and should, have a voice in federal policies that affect the well-being of the state as a whole. Furthermore, the state does, and should, have a duty to protect the interests and future of the citizens that it governs.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I'm not sure there are any right-leaning moderates left. At least on the US left-right scale.

Yes, because somehow with Trump's election, I've magically transformed into a frothing-at-the-mouth bigot with an IQ barely sufficient to eat oatmeal unsupervised?

Seriously, the constant mockery and derision of people on the other side of the line really needs to stop. This "All leftists are reasonable perfect beings and all rightists are stupid ignorant hatemongers" sort of rhetoric is promulgating the schism and making it impossible to have a discussion.

 

[quadraginta]

Even when people straight up tell you "we didn't vote for Hillary because she referred to an entire half the country as deplorables" you want to argue that it's actually because they really are deplorable, and they shouldn't be offended by being called deplorable because that's just reality.

The interesting thing about that quote is that she didn't do that. The full "deplorables" quote went on for about two paragraphs, and said almost the opposite of how the out of context sound bite sounded.

Even the out-of-context sound bite didn't say that. Hillary said;

"... you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables."

​

Which isn't "an entire half the country".

It isn't even half of the registered voters in the country, or maybe even half of the Republicans.

Sometimes I feel sorry for politicians.

I try to feel sorry for some of their defenders, who feel the need to lie like rugs in their transparently futile efforts to whitewash their tarnished heroes and vilify anyone who disagrees.

But I just can't.

 

[NoahFence]

~ snip ~



Even when people straight up tell you "we didn't vote for Hillary because she referred to an entire half the country as deplorables" you want to argue that it's actually because they really are deplorable, and they shouldn't be offended by being called deplorable because that's just reality.

The highlighted is a demonstrably false statement. She referred to half of HIS supporters as deplorable.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Yes, because somehow with Trump's election, I've magically transformed into a frothing-at-the-mouth bigot with an IQ barely sufficient to eat oatmeal unsupervised?

Seriously, the constant mockery and derision of people on the other side of the line really needs to stop. This "All leftists are reasonable perfect beings and all rightists are stupid ignorant hatemongers" sort of rhetoric is promulgating the schism and making it impossible to have a discussion.

I'm confused as to when you believe this thread became about you ?

 

[Joe Random]

<...> convincing everyone he is a big dick.<...>

Didn't vote for him, was ashamed he was even a candidate, but still held out hope that the more over-the-top theatrics during the election were just that - his huckster way of getting the win, and once in office he'd surprise everyone and be a bit more statesmanlike. Not some grand, eloquent, enlightened leader, but just not the trainwreck he was during the campaign. A stable politician, even if I still disagreed with his agenda.

Yeah, that hope didn't last too long.

 

[Armitage72]

The highlighted is a demonstrably false statement. She referred to half of HIS supporters as deplorable.

Obviously, the entire country supports Trump. Heck, she called half the world deplorable. Every person on Earth supports Trump. He's the most beloved man in the world. Lots of people say so. All the best people. The world has yuuuge love for Trump. Especially beautiful women. They can't resist him.

 

[dudalb]

ANother first: A president creates a major International Crisis via Twitter.

I would love to be a fly on the wall with the GOP leadership right now. I think they are now realizing that Trump really is an idiot who means disaster for the GOP.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Even when people straight up tell you "we didn't vote for Hillary because she referred to an entire half the country as deplorables" you want to argue that it's actually because they really are deplorable,.

Well if you were conducting an experiment to determine if they were really deplorables what response would you expect a deplorable to give to that accusation?

I certainly wouldn't expect a deplorable to know they are a deplorable let alone admit it in public.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Quit or fired? Right hand meet left hand.

Trump administration sources told CNN that the officials had been fired rather than quit. State Department spokesman Mark Toner, meanwhile, presented the departures as routine changeover.

And don't trip over that left foot.

The abrupt resignations at this stage in the transition seems to have come as a surprise. They are made all the more important because Trump has not made any nominations for State positions beyond Tillerson, to say nothing of hearings of confirmation votes....

The resignations are not, primarily, a political story. They will further the impression among Trump’s critics that his administration is a chaotic mess staffed, when it’s staffed at all, by greenhorn newcomers....

If these four officials were pushed, then Trump seems to have taken a cavalier attitude toward the State Department’s ability to run itself without institutional knowledge. If they jumped, it’s tempting to view their departure as an example of official Washington’s resistance to President Trump....

 

[Meadmaker]

Even the out-of-context sound bite didn't say that. Hillary said;

"... you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables."

​

Which isn't "an entire half the country".

It isn't even half of the registered voters in the country, or maybe even half of the Republicans.


I try to feel sorry for some of their defenders, who feel the need to lie like rugs in their transparently futile efforts to whitewash their tarnished heroes and vilify anyone who disagrees.

But I just can't.

In this case what I mean is that Hillary said one thing, but it's nearly universally believed that she said something else, and it probably cost her the presidency. Oh well. On some level, you have to be able to manage your own message, and she didn't. C'est la vie.