Brilliant Light Power Going To Market - Free Energy Generator

[aleCcowaN]

I think it's phlogiston thst is really responsible.

LOL

 

[jaydeehess]

T He might have one soon, although I worry about handling the huge heat.
.

Here's a novel idea that maybe no one has suggested yet.
Immerse the hot thing-a-ma-jig in a liquid coolant and use that heat to boil water to turn a steam turbine which in turn rotates a generator producing electricity.
It could be supplemental to the eventual photoelectric supplied current.
Use the exhaust from the turbine to heat homes, businesses and green houses.(in northern climates)

 

[Myriad]

Then, he got to work, and met all sorts of difficulties. The first proposal failed because regeneration seemed impossible. The second idea, the CIHT cell, seemed promising, and Mills and colleagues were very excited about it, but it proved impossible to scale up to more than a fraction of a watt. Recently, the idea of heavy currents in a suitable plasma environment seems to be working out, despite quite a few problems, and there is reason to hope for a really useful product by the end of this year. Mills has not had a working electric generator for over 20 years!

How fortunate. Because of these difficulties, we might have narrowly escaped widespread or even global contamination of earth's biosphere by a waste product, hydrino, that according to its discoverer has no way to contain it or filter it out, and whose chemical, biological, medical, and environmental effects are all but completely untested and unknown.

The Romans thought lead was a safe inert substance, and made their water pipes out of it. Marie Curie fiddled around with nuclear radiation until she (and others) died from the effects of the cumulative exposure. Mills is risking far worse and more widespread consequences.

Do you agree there should be a moratorium on all artificial sources of terrestrial hydrino release until its risks can be fully assessed?

 

[jaydeehess]

How fortunate. Because of these difficulties, we might have narrowly escaped widespread or even global contamination of earth's biosphere by a waste product, hydrino, that according to its discoverer has no way to contain it or filter it out, and whose chemical, biological, medical, and environmental effects are all but completely untested and unknown.

The Romans thought lead was a safe inert substance, and made their water pipes out of it. Marie Curie fiddled around with nuclear radiation until she (and others) died from the effects of the cumulative exposure. Mills is risking far worse and more widespread consequences.

Do you agree there should be a moratorium on all artificial sources of terrestrial hydrino release until its risks can be fully assessed?

THAT'S why we need a Moon base. Preferably on the far side so that hydrinos cannot make it to Earth.

 

[Giordano]

Yep, when you posted this it was obvious that you are down the same rabbit hole as MS.

In fact Mills has promised a production model several times in the past 20 years. There are posts in this thread that quote him doing so. With that history, people here are understandably skeptical that this recent promise will be adhered to. How about you? Are you fully confident, as is MS, that a production model will be available for sale or lease, by this time next year?



You mean for instance the electron cloud concept developed in 1926 by Erwin Schrödinger and Werner Heisenberg a decade after Bohr's model?

This^
I was going to write my own rebuttal, but this covers my points very well.

 

[jaydeehess]

This^
I was going to write my own rebuttal, but this covers my points very well.

Thanks, I am by no means a physicist but I did take undergrad physics so even I knew that Bohr's model was superseded by the electron cloud and quantum probability.

 

[Reality Check]

In fact Mills worked out, over 20 years ago, that the hydrino should exist ...

Welcome to the forum, PeterWol62.
Read my idiocy of trying to throw away quantum mechanics for purely classical physics post again.
This is some of the evidence is that Mills has ignorantly fantasized about physics for over 20 years and this has lead to his imaginary hydrino that does whatever he wants it to.

A major point is that Mills is really ignorant about physics, especially about the Schrodinger equation.

I did mention Mills "thin sphere" electron fantasy (he calls it an "electron orbitsphere"). It denies the reality of electrons.

1. We measure electrons to have a radius with an upper limit 10^-22 meters. Even the classical radius of an electron is 10^-18 meters. The radius of a hydrogen atom is about 10^-10 meters.
2. We see that electrons in atoms have to get inside the nucleus because we detect electrons being captured by the nucleus.
3. An extended electron has problems with Special Relativity.
   The surface of that electron will be rotating with a velocity that is probably greater than the speed of light. This is certainly true for an electron with a classical radius: Spin
   

   The physical interpretation of Pauli's "degree of freedom" was initially unknown. Ralph Kronig, one of Landé's assistants, suggested in early 1925 that it was produced by the self-rotation of the electron. When Pauli heard about the idea, he criticized it severely, noting that the electron's hypothetical surface would have to be moving faster than the speed of light in order for it to rotate quickly enough to produce the necessary angular momentum. This would violate the theory of relativity. Largely due to Pauli's criticism, Kronig decided not to publish his idea.

4. Spin is an intrinsic property of electrons and other fundamental particles.
   It is not Mills's delusion as stated in Figure I.1 of "Larmor excitation in a magnetic field".

...because its rotating charge is evenly spread, it does not radiate energy.

That statement suggests Mills actually lies, PeterWol62. Any single rotating charge will radiate energy. There are conditions for an collection of charges (not a single electron) to not radiate energy - nonradiation condition. As far as I can see, Mills does not show that the nonradiation condition holds for a rotating shell of uniform charge. But that does not matter because we have the fact that excited electrons in hydrogen do emit energy and his fantasy is that excited electrons are just bigger "orbitspheres". Mills denies the mission spectrum of hydrogen exists - the very thing he claims to explain !

ETA: Found a Tutorial which extends Mills ignorance or denial of basic physics. He has a H₂ molecule with no charges between the nuclei to hold it together !

Also: A sphere of uniform charge has no electric field inside and so the force on a charge inside it due to that field is zero. Thus his "orbitsphere" for an H atom is unlikely to stay around the proton. One collision and the proton will be ejected! But Mills may have a fantasy that it is the magnetic field that magically prevents the proton from escaping.

 

[Mike!]

Here's a novel idea that maybe no one has suggested yet.
Immerse the hot thing-a-ma-jig in a liquid coolant and use that heat to boil water to turn a steam turbine which in turn rotates a generator producing electricity.
It could be supplemental to the eventual photoelectric supplied current.
Use the exhaust from the turbine to heat homes, businesses and green houses.(in northern climates)

Someone DID suggest that exact idea way back at post 671...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11677601&postcount=671

 

[Darat]

There are people here who post arguments against claims which were never made. For example, Giordano wrote - "Yet we are supposed to believe that BLP has had this incredibly cheap, effective, no-maintenance method of generating heat and electricity for years and years, yet they have not released it because they need to "optimize" it even further."
In fact Mills worked out, over 20 years ago, that the hydrino should exist and that it might be possible to extract energy. In theory. Then, he got to work, and met all sorts of difficulties. The first proposal failed because regeneration seemed impossible. The second idea, the CIHT cell, seemed promising, and Mills and colleagues were very excited about it, but it proved impossible to scale up to more than a fraction of a watt. Recently, the idea of heavy currents in a suitable plasma environment seems to be working out, despite quite a few problems, and there is reason to hope for a really useful product by the end of this year. Mills has not had a working electric generator for over 20 years! He might have one soon, although I worry about handling the huge heat.
And by the way, I totally support every word posted here by MichaelSuede.
But you probably guessed that.

Life is too short to comment on the posts from Reality Check, but I want to at least assert that Mills' concept of the single electron is that it is not a point but a sphere, wrapped around the nucleus, and because its rotating charge is evenly spread, it does not radiate energy. Bohr should have not chosen to believe that the electron, for some mysterious reason, does not obey Maxwell's equations, but rather that there must be something wrong with viewing an electron as a tiny thing orbiting around the nucleus.
Peter W.

When does he expect to have a generator that doesn't need the ignition energy supplied?

 

[aleCcowaN]

When does he expect to have a generator that doesn't need the ignition energy supplied?

To be fair, even an oil barrel needs a match.

 

[jaydeehess]

Someone DID suggest that exact idea way back at post 671...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11677601&postcount=671

yep,

 

[JeanTate]

How fortunate. Because of these difficulties, we might have narrowly escaped widespread or even global contamination of earth's biosphere by a waste product, hydrino, that according to its discoverer has no way to contain it or filter it out, and whose chemical, biological, medical, and environmental effects are all but completely untested and unknown.

The Romans thought lead was a safe inert substance, and made their water pipes out of it. Marie Curie fiddled around with nuclear radiation until she (and others) died from the effects of the cumulative exposure. Mills is risking far worse and more widespread consequences.

Do you agree there should be a moratorium on all artificial sources of terrestrial hydrino release until its risks can be fully assessed?

(my bold)

In all my reading on hydrinos, I've found next to nothing on these topics.

Some obvious questions which I think Mills or someone who thinks they understand this, um, topic should have at least considered (if anyone - here's looking at you, PeterWol62 Welcome! - knows of any reliable documents pertinent to these questions, please quote and cite!):

1) What prevents or delays hydrinos from turning into normal hydrogen atoms? Yes, that would be an energy sink, but appropriately managed, wouldn't it also be a way to provide near zero cost air conditioning?

2) Ditto, but 'decaying' into lower-energy (higher fractional) quantum states? If this requires some kind of catalyst, what? The potential danger is huge: decaying into much lower states would release far more energy than any proposed Mills engine would, so even a few grams of 'hydrino waste' could trigger something akin to a low yield atomic bomb.

3) The current (and many former?) experiments and prototype developments are being carried out in Cranbury NJ, less than 100 km from NYC. As far as I can tell, the hydrinos being produced are not being collected (or at least not assiduously so). If hydrinos are like ordinary hydrogen, preventing all which are produced from escaping would be extraordinarily difficult. What does the NJ DEP have to say about that sort of thing? Will Cranbury become a cancer hotspot in the near future?

 

[Craig B]

I think it's phlogiston thst is really responsible.

If you wire it up correctly you can fill the ether with electric fluid at no cost. I'm going to sell my South Sea Company shares and invest in that.

 

[JeanTate]

michaelsuave, the OP, said this on the libertariannews site he cited in the OP:

People have been banned simply for posting about Mills and his theories on sites like physicsforums.com

I went to Physics Forums and checked for myself. There are indeed several threads "about Mills and his theories" there, but I could find no evidence of anyone being "banned simply for posting about Mills and his theories". Maybe someone can find an example? How about you, ms?

"The IEEE attacked him, calling him a loser." - ms (the link ms provides is here, interesting read; it's dated 1 Jan 2009). I found this part particularly pertinent to today's posts ("he" is "Randell Mills, the founder, chairman, chief executive, and president of BlackLight Power"):

”We produce hydrino on demand,” he tells IEEE Spectrum, adding that his team has isolated and characterized hydrino’s properties using spectroscopy and has even created hydrino-rich materials it can provide for analysis.

(my bold)

Try as I might, I have been unable to find anyone who will acknowledge receiving any such "hydrino-rich materials ... for analysis" from Mills. Does any ISF member reading this know of any (here's looking at you, PeterWol62 and ms)?

 

[jaydeehess]

1) What prevents or delays hydrinos from turning into normal hydrogen atoms? Yes, that would be an energy sink, but appropriately managed, wouldn't it also be a way to provide near zero cost air conditioning?

Interesting.
The candidate for the energy used to shift the electron back up to 'normalcy' would be the UV emitted when it falls to fractional states.
One wonders whether or not the UV spectrum of sunlight might be utilized for this purpose. It would be perfectly suited for equatorial regions if possible.
Since hydrinos are supposedly stable at least at the temp at which they are produced, perhaps simply cooling them to 40C and exposing them to a UV spectrum would do the trick?

 

[Andy_Ross]

If you wire it up correctly you can fill the ether with electric fluid at no cost. I'm going to sell my South Sea Company shares and invest in that.

I will sell my Tulip Bulbs and join you.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

In fact Mills worked out, over 20 years ago, that the hydrino should exist and that it might be possible to extract energy. In theory. Then, he got to work, and met all sorts of difficulties. The first proposal failed because regeneration seemed impossible. The second idea, the CIHT cell, seemed promising, and Mills and colleagues were very excited about it, but it proved impossible to scale up to more than a fraction of a watt. Recently, the idea of heavy currents in a suitable plasma environment seems to be working out, despite quite a few problems, and there is reason to hope for a really useful product by the end of this year. Mills has not had a working electric generator for over 20 years! He might have one soon, although I worry about handling the huge heat.

It's difficult to trace everything back because for some unknown reason Mills seems to delete old accounts of success off the website every few years. However, there are a few external documents that still exist. For example this article from 2008 is about how an independent team replicated Mills' 1,000W and 50,000W generators and generated 1m joules with them. This article from the same year talks again about having prototype 50 kW generators ready to enter production.

Now, you are right that it's claimed that the CIHT cells only ever operated "over long duration at about the 10 W scale". The question is - why aren't those on the market? You can buy 10W solar panels. If they sell, I'm sure the CIHT cells would. So why can't I buy one?

 

[Andy_Ross]

The Romans thought lead was a safe inert substance, and made their water pipes out of it.

To be fair to the Romans they were a late Iron Age civilisation and an undisturbed lead pipe will oxidise and is safe to use.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Oh, it's also interesting to note that this completely unbiased gush-fest claims this:

In Spring 2014, a much more powerful and effective method for extracting energy was invented. In stead of using the great heat generated at the transformation of Hydrogen into of Hydrinos, the intense light emitted at the same moment is used for generation of electricity.

The number-crunching earlier in this thread tell the opposite story. Even michaelsuede seemed to agree with the numbers that had something like 80-90% of the energy being converted to heat (although he did also pluck a number seemingly from his nether regions and then didn't defend that number at all).

Interestingly, that blog is claimed to be written by one Jaan Surkuular. It says it has no connection to Mills or BLT (mmm, BLT) but every article on the blog is about it. However, a google of that name brings up an Estonian Trancendental Meditation teacher. Is that really the same guy? Is the name common in Estonia? Or has someone hijacked his name?

http://tmhome.com/experiences/interview-dr-jaan-suurkula-leader-of-the-tm-movement-in-estonia/

 

[JeanTate]

Interesting.
The candidate for the energy used to shift the electron back up to 'normalcy' would be the UV emitted when it falls to fractional states.
One wonders whether or not the UV spectrum of sunlight might be utilized for this purpose. It would be perfectly suited for equatorial regions if possible.
Since hydrinos are supposedly stable at least at the temp at which they are produced, perhaps simply cooling them to 40C and exposing them to a UV spectrum would do the trick?

If you believe Mills et al., the "UV" is actually "EUV", ~10-30nm in wavelength, rather than ~350+nm. There's essentially zero such light down here, though maybe some from cosmic rays and background radioactive decay (I'm guessing). In any case, it gets absorbed by almost everything, including air, over very short distances (out in space it's quite different; if large quantities of hydrinos were to end up there, there'd be an interesting 'hole'/line in the Sun's spectrum ... at least over fairly large distances). Assuming all you need is light of the right wavelength (and nothing I've read suggests that you'd need anything more, but maybe ms knows better?).

But it's not just light which could provide the required energy; a sufficiently energetic collision could too (again, unless there's something magic about hydrinos which Mills is not telling us). True, particles - electrons, muons, atoms, ions, even positrons ... - with ~the right energy are fairly rare, but they are also ubiquitous.

To repeat, this is the sort of thing which you'd expect Mills, or one of his et al.s, would have thought of within a week (max) of dreaming up hydrinos (I understand for Mills the 'theory' came first, the experiments later; I could be wrong), and as they've been working on this for what, 25 years, the answers are surely written down somewhere ...