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#alternativefacts

Giordano said:
They would fit well in Dante's Eighth Circle of Hell (frauds), although it is hard to place them within the subdivisions of this circle: Bolgia 2 (flatterers), or Bolgia 5 (corrupt politicians), or Bolgia 7 (evil counselors and advisors).
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That's why it's a circle, you spend a bit of time in each 'encounter group' every spin around.
 
Luke: Obi-Wan.

[Obi-Wan's spirit approaches Luke]

Luke: Ben! Why didn't you tell me? You told me that Darth Vader betrayed and murdered my father.

Obi-Wan: Your father... was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. He ceased to be the Jedi Anakin Skywalker and "became" Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So, what I told was an alternative fact.

Luke: What the **** did you just say?

Obi-Wan: Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend not on facts, but with alternative facts. If reality doesn't fit your narrative, change the facts. Anakin was a good friend. When I first met him, your father was already a great pilot in stop things called pods. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong.

Luke: There is still good in him.
 
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C_Felix said:
Luke: Obi-Wan.

[Obi-Wan's spirit approaches Luke]

Luke: Ben! Why didn't you tell me? You told me that Darth Vader betrayed and murdered my father.

Obi-Wan: Your father... was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. He ceased to be the Jedi Anakin Skywalker and "became" Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So, what I told was an alternative fact.

Luke: What the **** did you just say?

Obi-Wan: Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend not on facts, but with alternative facts. If reality doesn't fit your narrative, change the facts. Anakin was a good friend. When I first met him, your father was already a great pilot in stop things called pods. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong.

Luke: There is still good in him.
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Luke: Unrelated Jedi/Force question...is it possible to kill a Force ghost? I mean, is there someone I, or someone else, could do to you now, to stop you existing? Just wondering.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Luke: Unrelated Jedi/Force question...is it possible to kill a Force ghost? I mean, is there someone I, or someone else, could do to you now, to stop you existing? Just wondering.
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Vader can choke you.
Jedi/Sith can push you.

Can I use the force to make you sneeze? Pee yourself? Cause you have an orgasm?

I can easily imagine a situation in a lightsaber fight where taking a second and making a hand gesture and causing my opponent to sneeze, pee and/or orgasm would be quite beneficial.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
That doesn't change the facts. No one is arguing that Trump doesn't believe in his alternative post-truth world. If that's the point you are trying to make you could have done so many posts ago.

That people believe false things doesn't make said false things facts.
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What is it that makes them facts? Is it because they are true? And if you and I and everyone else in the world believes something is true, is it true?

I don't see how you are ever going to escape the human element when the thing we are interested in cannot be recreated nor experimented with nor produces any predictions about the future we can check.

Please don't take this to mean that anything at all is in play. The same mechanism works the other way around. Trump is President of the United States. This is a fact we all agree on and causes no trouble whatsoever. It is only when there is disagreement that the issue arises.
 
CORed said:
Or at least that they can convince the jury that their story is correct.
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That's pretty much what's going on. We have at least two narratives in play - one "pro" Trump and one against. The former is sensitive to things which advance their narrative as much as the latter.

From the "pro" Trump side we have the idea that Trump enjoys much more popular support than he gets credit for. The attendance at any performance he gives feeds this story. So of course they like the idea that his inauguration was well-attended, and that easily moves to "highest attendance ever."

When the evidence argues against them, no matter really, we'll just look for the next indication that our larger narrative is correct. There are unlimited shots at the target.

On the other side the narrative is about gratuitous lying and stupidity. So the misinformation - when it is exposed as incorrect - feeds that narrative. The factoid that didn't pan out for the other side now becomes ammunition for this story. This particular misstep will be preserved and added to the lore. Expect it to be brought up down the road as a clear example of outright lying by the Trump administration.
 
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PhantomWolf said:
Your wrong here. It's not that we have a shared belief that it's worth $5 that makes it worth $5, it's that the Government produces it with a guarantee of it being worth $5. Thus it's worth $5 because the Government says that it is, and promises to back that up, not because we just all believe it.
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Except that too is a belief. And when the belief fails, we get Zimbabwe.
 
Kayleigh What'sherface was on CNN, Anderson Cooper, just now using the oft repeated rationale for Trump lies, "You can't prove it didn't happen." Apparently Trump is again claiming he won the popular vote except for those 3 million illegal votes. :rolleyes: Van Jones pointed out how ludicrous it would be for people in a solidly blue state to add illegal blue votes.
 
Here's a new alternative fact:

Pence claims 'over half' of women's march were Trump supporters
Vice President Mike Pence is getting in on the "alternative facts" fun.

Pence or his team made the claim that "well over half" of the huge crowds out protesting Trump's inauguration during Saturday's Women's March in Washington were actually fans of the new president in a Facebook post, the latest example of top Trump administration representatives choosing to misstate basic facts.

"Our Administration is proud to stand with American women and of our supporters' significant role in this cause. Despite the misleading Liberal Media's claims, we clearly saw that well over half of the participants in yesterday's march were Trump supporters," reads a post on Pence's official Facebook page posted on Sunday.
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:mad:
 
ponderingturtle said:
They are not lies, they are government validated truth.

Just look at Stalin for how the past is flexible and can be changed to fit with current needs. That is what trump is after.
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Oh stop it!

Hyperbole is one thing, but this is asinine extrapolation crimethink. I can't stand the SOB either, but this is not Ingsoc or 1984. At least not yet.
 
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