China threatens war, calling Trump's bluff?

[xjx388]

According to the article, here is the only thing China said officially: “The South China Sea situation has cooled down and we hope non-regional countries can respect the consensus that it is in the fundamental interest of the whole world."

That doesn't sound like they have threatened war. The title should have said, "Australia fears Trump Admin position on China will start war." That's honest and doesn't convey something that has no support in the quoted material. Talk about the obviously heated situation all you want but I for one wouldn't have bothered to read the thread if the title had been honest.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

So, not Australia, but just some Paul Keating guy.

Ex PM, did you bother looking to see what the current PM had to say?

Malcolm Turnbull slams Labor call to challenge China's artificial islands

The political gulf between the major parties on whether to launch naval and air challenges to China over its artificial islands has deepened dramatically with Malcolm Turnbull slamming Labor's more hawkish stance as showing "immaturity and unreadiness" to take responsibility for national security.

Donald Trump looms large over Malcolm Turnbull's talks with Japan's Shinzo Abe

Donald Trump's impending presidency loomed large over Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull's talks with his Japanese counterpart.

Mr Turnbull welcomed Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to Sydney on Saturday as part of the Japanese leader's latest regional tour, widely seen as an attempt to shore up regional solidarity before Mr Trump ushers in a new era of unpredictability.

Looks like Turnbull has his own right wingers to worry about as well as the fact both Australia and Japan have a vested interest in what an unpredictable and possibly unstable Trump might do to kick the hornet's nest.

All the while, IMO, China knows full well this is the best time to make a move, Trump is all bluster and no bite.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

According to the article, here is the only thing China said officially: “The South China Sea situation has cooled down and we hope non-regional countries can respect the consensus that it is in the fundamental interest of the whole world."

That doesn't sound like they have threatened war. The title should have said, "Australia fears Trump Admin position on China will start war." That's honest and doesn't convey something that has no support in the quoted material. Talk about the obviously heated situation all you want but I for one wouldn't have bothered to read the thread if the title had been honest.

What is it about the word 'bluff', and 'threatens', that causes you to not see either word in the thread title, and only see the word, war?

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Talk about the obviously heated situation all you want but I for one wouldn't have bothered to read the thread if the title had been honest.

Yeah, I fell for it too -- got clickbaited.

Anyway, would someone please forward this thread to BuzzFeed.

 

[Noztradamus]

All the while, IMO, China knows full well this is the best time to make a move, Trump is all bluster and no bite.

Not the only one thinking that someone may be bluster

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...t-s-unhappy-with-name-change-of-taipei-office

China Slams Japan Over Name Change of De Facto Taipei Embassy ...

China has criticized Japan’s decision to add the word Taiwan to the name of its*de facto embassy in Taipei, risking fresh tensions over the self-governing island after a recent spat between China and the U.S.
The Interchange Association, Japan said on its website Wednesday that starting next year it will become the Japan-Taiwan Exchange Association.*It said the office "will continue to act as a bridge between Japan and Taiwan and is determined to further advance relations."

 

[Foolmewunz]

According to the article, here is the only thing China said officially: “The South China Sea situation has cooled down and we hope non-regional countries can respect the consensus that it is in the fundamental interest of the whole world."

That doesn't sound like they have threatened war. The title should have said, "Australia fears Trump Admin position on China will start war." That's honest and doesn't convey something that has no support in the quoted material. Talk about the obviously heated situation all you want but I for one wouldn't have bothered to read the thread if the title had been honest.

You do know that if Breitbart says it, it's very possibly coming from someone with serious links to the incoming administration? That if RT does, it likely has approval from Putin or his cronies? Now all you have to do is figure out who China Daily and Global Times are. Do you think they're anonymous bloggers operating from a noodle shop in Tianjin?

It's saber-rattling but it's very calculated to be on a par with the comments by Tillerson, who is after all not yet the SoS but who, in the spirit of Putinesque kleptocracy has been nominated for that position that he is remarkably unsuited for.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Not the only one thinking that someone may be bluster

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...t-s-unhappy-with-name-change-of-taipei-office

Interesting. I wonder if there is anything to Trump and Japan making these Taiwan moves at the same time. The new Taiwan president seems to have a connection to Trump's move, working on a Trump building contract.

It would appear Taiwan's new president, Tsai Ing-wen, is initiating some of the moves. I wonder who is playing who? Regardless, I wish we had a more diplomatic and intelligent POTUS given the risks involved.

President Tsai: Taiwan Will Not Succumb to China

aiwan's first woman president, Tsai Ing-wen, in an exclusive interview with The Wall Street Journal, discusses the island's fraught relations with China, tensions over territorial disputes, the upcoming U.S. election and her views on Hong Kong. Photo: Craig Ferguson for The Wall Street Journal.

President Tsai Ing-wen ‘losing control’ of Taiwan’s pro-independence camp

Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen is facing what analysts view as the biggest challenge to her authority since taking office after she reluctantly withdrew her nominations for the top posts in the island’s judiciary.
Political observers said the harsh criticism Tsai had endured from supporters and the withdrawal of the nominations were a sign she was losing control of the pro-independence or “green” camp in Taiwanese politics.
All this comes as a new poll released on Monday shows Tsai’s approval rating slipping below 50 per cent for the first time since she took office in May.

Taiwan's Puzzling New Approach to Japan

Tsai Ing-wen led the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) to a major victory in the 2016 Taiwan election in January and took office in May. In contrast to former President Ma Ying-jeou and his KMT party’s pro-China regime, Tsai and her cabinet are expected to launch a major shift in foreign policy, making the DPP’s policy toward Japan a focal point. However, the first 100 days of Tsai’s presidency present a puzzling picture to many observers and analysts.

Over the past eight years, Ma’s pro-China political discourse reduced Chinese suspicion and interference in the development of Taiwan-Japan relations, and the interactions between Taiwan and Japan were largely unobstructed. However, in a bid to ensure his primacy and influence in cross-strait relations after his presidency, Ma shifted this approach. In the last year of his term, Ma launched a number of statements and actions on issues regarding historical memory and territorial disputes that are Sino-centric and largely confrontational toward Japan. These gestures have been widely interpreted as deliberately undermining Taiwan-Japan relations.

Great, a very complicated situation and we have an easily manipulated POTUS, offer him some profits with a new Trump building in Taiwan ...

There's no way Trump looks like he has a clue about anything political going on here, just more profits.

Show me some evidence I'm wrong. Please.

 

[uke2se]

The thread title is fake news.

Nope, that's not what fake news is. If what you claim about the factual circumstances regarding China in this thread were true, the thread title would be an exaggeration. That's not fake news.

 

[gabeygoat]

You're making that up. Aren't you?

By the way, you have an extra W in there.

The extra w is for whacky.

I believe that the nuclear World War III will happen, as said in the 1986-06-13 session. It will start at Spratly Islands in the middle of the year on a Wednesday. When this happens, will you change your beliefs? .

 

[Foolmewunz]

Nope, that's not what fake news is. If what you claim about the factual circumstances regarding China in this thread were true, the thread title would be an exaggeration. That's not fake news.

It's the current rage. The Great Orange poobah repeats, "Fake News" often enough and the loyal minions scurry around calling everything fake news. Editorials cannot be fake news as they are not news, but opinion.

And if someone reports on those editorials, that's not fake news, either. It's better classified as "something I don't agree with", but that's too hard - simply expressing your own opinion and supporting it, so they cry "Fake News! Gotcha!" and all give themselves figurative congratulatory chest bumps.

And what's most entertaining is to see those claims coming from Drudge and Breitbart and The Daily Mail, all in the business of manufacturing actual fake news.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Didn't Hitler get his public to mistrust the news as well?

 

[uke2se]

Didn't Hitler get his public to mistrust the news as well?

The goal of the authoritarian is to get the people to mistrust the news sources that he doesn't control.

 

[Belz...]

I clicked through with surprise...Did China really threaten war?! No. No they didn't. This forum is now just click bait titles to rabble-rouse, I guess.

Gotta compete with Twitter, somehow.

 

[Belz...]

Eh? There has been no declaration of war. That is all.

Now you're the one playing with words. The title says "threatens war", not "declares war".

 

[Spindrift]

Didn't Hitler get his public to mistrust the news as well?

Hitler controlled the German media and what was reported by foreign media from within Germany.

After the invasion of Poland, a famous German headline said "Poles Bomb Warsaw". Sort of true, the Poles were bombarding the Germans who were in Warsaw.

 

[Giz]

Didn't Hitler get his public to mistrust the news as well?

Omg! Teh hitlerz! Orange is the new blackshirtz! Etc !1!!1

 

[theprestige]

That doesn't answer this question....



If they believe that the US would not respond with launches against civilian populations over an attack against a valid military target, then such a strike is not insane at all.

Consider the options, the US can kill a billion people in retaliation for losing its carrier group, and get nuked itself, or it can lick its wounds and stop playing policeman in the South China Sea. Which would be the more likely option?

Or the US could respond in kind, nuking valid military targets in China. Launch facilities, airfields, naval bases... And those artificial islands, of course.

China isn't the only one who can play Nuclear Utilization Target Selection.

 

[uke2se]

Omg! Teh hitlerz! Orange is the new blackshirtz! Etc !1!!1

Do you think the comparison is unfair? How about you outline why instead of attempting an argument from ridicule?

 

[tyr_13]

Or the US could respond in kind, nuking valid military targets in China. Launch facilities, airfields, naval bases... And those artificial islands, of course.

China isn't the only one who can play Nuclear Utilization Target Selection.

This is of course possible, and the first possibility that came to mind.

It could also trigger more widespread conventional attacks and align powers against them that otherwise would have stayed out of it. There are many factors that would come into play there, including how valid others view the use of tactical nukes in any case, and if the US made a bad case to be there in the first place. If the world at large saw it as 'well the US had that one coming', there might be less of a response. This is why international goodwill and trust are important. (Insert snark about how much the world 'trusts' Trump.)

So while it's not all downside, I still don't see the 'win' there for the US and our interests. Making it as politically and economically expensive for them to take the area might be the best course, but going straight to this level of saber rattling? Piss poor negotiation, all around actually. China doesn't have a handle on the incoming administration yet, and hasn't fine-tuned it's outbound message to suit.

 

[Giz]

Do you think the comparison is unfair? How about you outline why instead of attempting an argument from ridicule?

The argument that trump is comparable to hitler is hysterical bed wetting, unworthy of adults, let alone "skeptics".

It also diminishes the horrors of hitler by comparing him to a bloviating corrupt narcissist. Perhaps berlusconi is a better comparison? (I'm not a fan of trump, but I'm even less a fan of people trying to diminish the horrors of actual fascism or of trying to undermine the peaceful transition of power - which is the prime differentiator between functional states and banana republics).