US Officially Blames Russia

The author is a former MI6 agent whose services were retained by Republican primary opponents as well as Clinton, so skepticism along the lines of these documents being fabricated by Clinton supporters doesn't carry much water. McCain was an intermediary in passing some of them along to the FBI, so again a partisan disinformation plot doesn't quite fit.

I would say the language is probably more accurately read in terms of European political discourse than American left-right discourse since they are written by a former British intelligence agent interacting with other spooks in Europe and Russia.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Now you think you can read clues from Clinton in the report?
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What that language shows is that it may have problems with a "tell them what they want to hear" aspect to it.

I repeat, what a bunch of denial malarky.
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Repeat all you want, doesn't make it any more true. I get it, you "want to believe", and you are free to do so but can't expect anyone else to just follow you with it.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
The author is a former MI6 agent whose services were retained by Republican primary opponents as well as Clinton, so skepticism along the lines of these documents being fabricated by Clinton supporters doesn't carry much water.
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I didn't say it was "fabricated by Clinton supporters".
 
Delphic Oracle said:
McCain was an intermediary in passing some of them along to the FBI, so again a partisan disinformation plot doesn't quite fit.
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This faux "partisan" distinction is clouding your[*] thinking. McCain and plenty of other Republicans would be equally, if not more, amenable to such language. When language seems designed to resonate with the recipients' prior world-view there's grounds for skepticism that the people who use the language are just telling the recipients what they want to hear. The distinction isn't along "partisan" lines but along lines of people holding such world-view and people who don't.

* not just you personally but plenty of people here
 
Whatever, you have fun with your 'Clinton-style political rhetoric' theory.

Opposition research that turns out to be bunk is worth nothing, maybe even less than nothing since it would backfire on anyone trying to use it. Operatives who generate opposition research that turns out to be bunk tend to end up with no clients after a while.

What, other than the terms "liberal" and "ideals-based" supposedly being sekrit Clintonian ciphers are you basing this on?

ETA: I also again remind you that Clinton was not the agent's only client, many Republicans purchased access to these reports. So was the agent telling Republican primary candidates what they wanted to hear by invoking a "liberal" and "ideals-based" Clinton-style worldview?
 
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Delphic Oracle said:
Whatever, you have fun with your 'Clinton-style political rhetoric' theory.

Opposition research that turns out to be bunk is worth nothing, maybe even less than nothing since it would backfire on anyone trying to use it. Operatives who generate opposition research that turns out to be bunk tend to end up with no clients after a while.

What, other than the terms "liberal" and "ideals-based" supposedly being sekrit Clintonian ciphers are you basing this on?

ETA: I also again remind you that Clinton was not the agent's only client, many Republicans purchased access to these reports. So was the agent telling Republican primary candidates what they wanted to hear by invoking a "liberal" and "ideals-based" Clinton-style worldview?
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I'm not going to dignify this with a response other than to tell you to have fun with your "partisan" theory.
 
Some of the allegations are vague, others quite specific. If they were just confabulations, by now at least some would have been debunked by either intelligence services or the media.
Since they are not, this pile of manure definitely has the power to stick to Trump for the next few years.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Some of the allegations are vague, others quite specific. If they were just confabulations, by now at least some would have been debunked by either intelligence services or the media.
Since they are not, this pile of manure definitely has the power to stick to Trump for the next few years.
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If the allegations are true, chances are that there won't be any "next few years" for Trump in any official position.
 
It does make me cross when America and their CIA so-called political intelligence officers have been interfering in elections and overthrowing governments all over the world, including Nicaragua and Guatemala and Ukraine and Peru and Syria and Iraq, and possibly Brazil, and yet as soon as some other people start meddling in toppling the American government they threaten violence and sanctions to interfere in international trade. I don't want to march on Moscow, or attack Iran or China. The Japanese have been described as ghastly people in the past. I don't like mad mullahs, but I don't want nuclear war over the matter.
 
phiwum said:
None of this has anything to do with burden of proof. If I assert that there are no swans, then it is up to me to give evidence. If you assert that there are, then you must give evidence.

There is absolutely no reasonable rule that, if your claim is hard or impossible to prove, then you don't have to.
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You don't think that having an impossible burden of proof is unreasonable?
 
logger said:
There is an obvious perception they're corrupt.

You don't sense that people have a mistrust about them?
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You're not answering my question: what does the CIA have to do with Hillary not getting charged by the DOJ?

When you're done answering that, you can tell me what the perception of other people have to do with you knowing that they're corrupt.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Some of the allegations are vague, others quite specific. If they were just confabulations, by now at least some would have been debunked by either intelligence services or the media.
Since they are not, this pile of manure definitely has the power to stick to Trump for the next few years.
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The easiest one, the trip to Prague, took about 8 hours for people to reach out to the baseball team and confirm Cohen at the school with his son August 29th. That is a pretty good start.

ETA: and before people start saying,"but he was in Italy in July, he could have..." That is how psychic cold reads get their power. Someone makes a prediction up and you give it credibility by mentally giving it a pass on some of the details.
 
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BobTheCoward said:
The easiest one, the trip to Prague, took about 8 hours for people to reach out to the baseball team and confirm Cohen at the school with his son August 29th. That is a pretty good start.

ETA: and before people start saying,"but he was in Italy in July, he could have..." That is how psychic cold reads get their power. Someone makes a prediction up and you give it credibility by mentally giving it a pass on some of the details.
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A big-shot dad spending time with his son?
I find that deeply suspicious ...

;)
 
Argumemnon said:
You're not answering my question: what does the CIA have to do with Hillary not getting charged by the DOJ?

When you're done answering that, you can tell me what the perception of other people have to do with you knowing that they're corrupt.
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I'm not answering yours until you answer mine. ;)
 
Argumemnon said:
You're not answering my question: what does the CIA have to do with Hillary not getting charged by the DOJ?

When you're done answering that, you can tell me what the perception of other people have to do with you knowing that they're corrupt.
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Did I use the word knowing? Do you see how you changed my word perception into knowing? This is why you get so confused.
 
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Stacko said:
It's unverified information sourced to anonymous figures whose existence has not been proven. I'm skeptical as this seems almost too perfect. There needs to be an independent probe into these long standing allegations but the Satanic Cheeto will never allow it.

ETA: It's almost too perfectly lurid. He allegedly hired prostitutes for a “golden shower” party on Ritz Moscow bed where Obama/Michelle slept. I wouldn't put it past him but he's a well known germophobe.

ETA2: "Trumped-up trickle down" is now a much better line than when it was used in the debates.
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Fake news?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-10/4chan-claims-have-fabricated-anti-trump-report-hoax
 
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