Tony Szamboti vs. tfk Debate

[Dave Rogers]

I suspect that the only lesson learned here is that tfk has learned it's futile to debate someone who makes up his own evidence as he goes along; however, without any comment from tfk I wouldn't presume that to be the case, as I prefer not to do the same. Ziggi will no doubt continue to pretend that the debate served a serious educational purpose while steadfastly avoiding any requests for evidence as to who was educated and to what effect, because trying to present a case by avoiding inconvenient questions is the one thing the truth movement has always excelled at.

Dave

 

[Ziggi]

I suspect that the only lesson learned here is that tfk has learned it's futile to debate someone who makes up his own evidence as he goes along; however, without any comment from tfk I wouldn't presume that to be the case, as I prefer not to do the same. Ziggi will no doubt continue to pretend that the debate served a serious educational purpose while steadfastly avoiding any requests for evidence as to who was educated and to what effect, because trying to present a case by avoiding inconvenient questions is the one thing the truth movement has always excelled at.

Dave

Oh you poor thing Dave, you must be really desperate to get that pathetic. I already spoon-fed you the answer here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11620022&postcount=640

You are simply displaying the pathetic stupidity and dishonesty that you "debunkers" on this subforum have become famous for, as has even been noted by people on your side;

The comment about the spoon feeding is especially fitting now given recent comments.

So, to sum up remarks about you "debunkers" of Truthers, from members of your own team:
Quote:
..out of their depth" alleged debunkers at ISF.
... dogmatic followers of a creed
,,fixated only on smothering scientific debate
...Their primary mission is to lie and/or personally attack,,,Not able to follow a reasoned argument when it is spoon fed to themhttp://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11620253&postcount=652

If you think you can entice me with this type of trolling into some fit of rage and ranting you are sadly mistaken. Those tactics do not work on people like me that know how you guys operate. You are on the other hand doing my work for me, as I have explained plenty of times, the last time only a few weeks ago:

Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
.. We are here to let you guys debunk yourselves with this kind of behavior in the eyes of real researchers that may be checking both sides...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11542138&postcount=2562

Maybe it is time to take a good look in the mirror, Dave?

 

[Dave Rogers]

Oh you poor thing Dave, you must be really desperate to get that pathetic. I already spoon-fed you the answer here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11620022&postcount=640

Sadly, as usual there turned out to be nothing in the spoon.

Dave

 

[jaydeehess]

A reiterating of your earlier posts really isn't "spoon feeding". Come on Ziggi, exactly what education did new comers to the issue get?

The entire rason d'etre, it appears, of AE911T, is education about the events of 9/11.

EXACTLY how has the cause been advanced by having tfk withdraw from an internet forum debate?

EXACTLY how has tfk withdrawing from debate increased the technical veracity of the claims(perhaps I need to spoon feed you why this question is relevant to "education"?) of AE911T?

 

[beachnut]

Debate? Can you debate a CD fantasy?

Oh you poor thing ... , ...

Projection due to a lack of evidence to support Tony's claims. I doubt 9/11 truth follower can summarize Tony's claims. The 19 terrorists figured out 9/11 before 9/11, or instantly on 9/11; why is Tony unable to figure out 9/11 after 15 years. With the fuzzy support of less than 0.1 percent of all engineers - that is massive failure. Tony and 9/11 truth's claim of CD can't make it into the "fake news" level of stupid.

... displaying the pathetic stupidity...

Projection, again? Where is the evidence for the massive inside job? Tony has some evidence? No.

... trolling into some fit of rage and ranting you are sadly mistaken.

Too late. Irony... 15 years of failure for Tony and 9/11 truth... how upset are the cult members when they wake up to the fact CD is a dumbed down lie made up by old failed men; the ones who fooled the followers; like Jones, DRG, and Richard Gage, the only one making a living by spreading lies.

Maybe it is time to take a good look in the mirror, ...?

Ironic projection, and no evidence to support the Tony Szamboti fantasy of CD, or the pathetic inside job based on nothing but paranoia and hate.


Why are you stuck posting weak attacks in a sub-forum where skeptics discuss crazy claims form a 9/11 truth? Why can't you post your lies in the science section? If you had evidence for CD, you would have the biggest story since Watergate. Watergate had evidence for a conspiracy, you have BS with is evidence of a conspiracy theory. Good luck, it is sad you have posted lies about 9/11 which will be a legacy of woo forever (okay, as long as the river flows, or until hackers you pay erase the failed claims)...

How do you debate an event? You can argue about the play, or how the 19 terrorists wasted money on flight lessons - the 757/767 are easy to fly VMC (clear weather, no major winds, no clouds, unlimited visibility) no instruments. For CD all 9/11 truth needs is steel what was blown up, blast effects, or thermite damage. But there is no blast effects, no thermite damage.
[/debate]

 

[jaydeehess]

There is irony (hypocrisy) that the main cheerleader for one of the very few technical investigations that truthers have undertaken is brow beatin debunkers about a debunker, tfk, leaving an internet debate. Basile has had years to produce and hasn't. Has he withdrawn from this investigation? By some measures he certainly has, even if not officially declared it.

In terms of education what would be more important, an internet debate on essentially, fringe issue web sites, or technical papers that might serve to persuade professionals in relevant areas? If tfk withdrawing from debate supposedly educates new comers on a deficiency in debunkers, then most certainly Basile's foot dragging, essential withdrawing from technical investigation educates such new comers in deficiency in truther circles by at least the same measure.

 

[skyeagle409]

Tony Szamboti vs. tfk Debate

The debate was over before it began because Tony failed to come to the debate with real evidence and I might add that his make-believe evidence is not real evidence.

Where are the CT investigative reports that Truthers claimed would provide their so-called evidence before the end of this year despite the fact that thousands of dollars were sent to organizations such as AE911Truth? What happened to the thousands of dollars in donations sent to AE911Truth? Why do Truthers continue to send donations to AE911Truth? Who was the person who said; "there's a sucker born every minute?"

 

[Mark F]

Sadly, as usual there turned out to be nothing in the spoon.

Dave

I know I'm still hungry.

Gimmie some sugar baby!

 

[Oystein]

...
That you ended up having an actual minister of faith, Reverend Chris Mohr, leading your "debunking" effort ...

Hahaha
Remember the road-to-Damascus moment Richard Gage had when he listened to a professor of theology on the radio which prompted him to converted to the Creed of 9/11 Truth and found AE911Truth? These people have hardly progressed one bit beyond DRG's teachings of ten years ago.

 

[Oystein]

December 2016: 15 years and counting and still no 9/11 conspiracy evidence.

Worse yet: Not even a competing theory to interprete and explain any evidence. Just a wildly divergent scatter of felt anomalies, assorted incredulities, amateur imaginations and faith-based presumptions.

 

[Oystein]

...
http://911debunkers.blogspot.is/2014/08/the-jref-is-getting-rid-of-its-own.html
...
Frank likes to BS, and can't figure out iron microspheres occur when you burn iron bearing stuff... ...

In 2011, I believe, I emailed Greening an early draft of a paper that I was putting together with the help of Ivan Kminek, where I meant to show that the LaClede paint, the recipe of which Ivan had discovered, would be expected to yield the data Harrit et al, Harrit, and Basile had presented in 2009 and 2010 when doing the tests they did.

Greening's reponse was harsh, uncivil, and ultimately stupid: He didn't believe the red-gray chips were paint, he had a different theory that we should look into: That they are the electrical contacts of computer hard disk drives!

Greening makes up BS on the spot; sometimes it's so crazy it's hard not to suspect he his pulling everyone's leg, or satiring the twoof movement.

 

[Oystein]

Oh you poor thing Dave, you must be really desperate to get that pathetic. I already spoon-fed you the answer here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11620022&postcount=640
...

Since the question was twofold: WHO was educated, and to WHAT effect, your "answer" is actually a non-answer:
"Those new to the debate did indeed get a lesson, albeit not the one TFK had so pompously set out; quite the opposite. It could be argued that TFK taught himself a hard lesson as well, along the way."

You answered the "who" with "those new to the debate" - but who are "those", and how many? More than zero? You have been asked this, to provide and ACTUAL answer, and studiously ignored and avoided it. Which every lurker, whether new or old to the debate, can clearly see.

You answered the "what" part with "not the one TFK had so pompously set out" - the first word here proves it is a non-answer.



So again:

Who was educated?
And to what effect where they educated?


Run, Ziggi, run run awaaaaaaay

 

[Oystein]

... Come on Ziggi, exactly what education did new comers to the issue get?

jaydee, jaydee, jaydee! Tsk tsk tsk ... you are falling for Ziggi's unproven premise: That there are any new comers who followed the debate.

 

[ozeco41]

Greening makes up BS on the spot; sometimes it's so crazy it's hard not to suspect he his pulling everyone's leg, or satiring the twoof movement.

Remember his "ammonium perchlorate" hypothesis?

I called "poe" on it but some of his longer term associates didn't agree. It sure looked like a parody to me.

Still it was a few years back when I would have judged "Nobody could be that stupid."

 

[Oystein]

...
The debate was over before it began because Tony failed to come to the debate with real evidence ...

Did tfk come to the debate with evidence?
You'd have to say what that evidence would be for.

The truth is, both came to the debate with no defined purpose, no fixed point of contention, and both came loaded with false assumptions. It's umfair to blame the false start and downward spiral on Tony alone.

It was a bad debate from both sides; and tfk, I hate to remind you all, lost it by default.
(Which of course doesn't mean that Tony won; Tony was merely denied a chance to earn the loss)

 

[Oystein]

Remember his "ammonium perchlorate" hypothesis?

I called "poe" on it but some of his longer term associates didn't agree. It sure looked like a parody to me.

That's the one I was thinking of.
And the "molten aluminium meets sprinkler water and goes BOOM" hypothesis of a naturally occurring bomb.

 

[ozeco41]

The truth is, both came to the debate with no defined purpose, no fixed point of contention, and both came loaded with false assumptions. It's umfair to blame the false start and downward spiral on Tony alone.

It was a bad debate from both sides; and tfk, I hate to remind you all, lost it by default.
(Which of course doesn't mean that Tony won; Tony was merely denied a chance to earn the loss)

Agreed. One of these days I may decide to take on the issue of "giving a free ride" to debunkers. Take the "truther" and "debunker" labels off both of them - their tactics when pressed are IMO identical. Which is the point I was addressing in my 911Forum posts which Ziggi quote mined a few posts back.

My disappointment about the "debate" was that neither got serious. I was waiting for them to invoke certain aspects of Bazant's work where - one instance they agree with each other and both are wrong and another example where T Sz is right and tfk is wrong.

 

[beachnut]

...Greening's... pulling everyone's leg, or satirizing the twoof movement.

... I called "poe" on it but some of his longer term associates didn't agree. It sure looked like a parody to me. ...:

Ironic Ziggi uses a BS artist in a weak attack on posters, when he fails to see CD is evidence free. When Ziggi is unable to support CD and help Tony, what else can he do but make failed attacks using speculation from a self proclaimed speculator who does it because he can, Greening. Did Ziggi read the BS? Failing to see the off topic speculation and nonsense from Greening is not valid support for Tony's CD fantasy.

The 9/11 truth movement sees smoke expelled in a gravity collapse, and says explosives, silent no supersonic shock wave explosives, planted by invisible people in the elevator shaft.

Poor Tony, could have take 9/11 truth tag lines, like Gage did, and make a living - why did we fail to see the market for spreading lies and beat Gage to the woo road show of ignorance and insane claims.

Has any 9/11 truth follower take the "overwhelming evidence" to a newspaper and tried to apply for the Pulitzer, like the paper did for Watergate.

overwhelming evidence 9/11 was an inside job = produces 139,000 google results

overwhelming evidence 9/11 was cd = 1.2 mil google results

kate-upton = 16,800,000 google results

orders of magnitude of insignificant BS... 9/11 truth -

last one out, close the door

 

[Ziggi]

Agreed. One of these days I may decide to take on the issue of "giving a free ride" to debunkers. Take the "truther" and "debunker" labels off both of them - their tactics when pressed are IMO identical. Which is the point I was addressing in my 911Forum posts which Ziggi quote mined a few posts back..

What a pathetic attempt to rewrite history Mr Ozeco, especially since it involves a thread

http://the911forum.freeforums.org/duplicitous-blowhard-tfk-at-it-again-t726-30.html

in which you and other blowhards complain about your fellow "debunkers" here rewriting history to cover up their old ****.

This thread so ironically referring to a blowhard is a compilation of some of the most pompous comments I have ever seen, from some of the most flatulent blowhards I have ever seen. You **** all over truthers and debunkers alike- I will give you that - but the most notable comments are about your fellow "debunkers" here, and how you label them as incompetent and/or liars. Let's begin with your comment on TFK since this thread is about him:

So is tfk so incompetent at engineering applied physics OR merely telling lies to support his personal attack?? Who cares - not me.

For the rest of your fellow "debunkers" you have similar remarks:

..a group of engineers whose apparent reading comprehension and technical reasoning skills are appalling. tfk only the noticeable top of the iceberg because his first priority stays with pre-emptive character assassination.

I'm gradually accumulating a list of "out of their depth" alleged debunkers at ISF. Their primary mission is to lie and/or personally attack anyone who understands aspects of WTC collapse better than they do. ...

....and even worse "Not able to follow a reasoned argument when it is spoon fed to them". One prominent JREF/ISFer has over the years challenged me to explain some moderately complicated bit BUT cannot process the reasoned argument. THEN turns to character assassination....

The flatulent arrogance of how you Ozeco41 think you are way superior to your fellow "out of their depth alleged debunkers" here is plain to see for everyone that reads that thread. And you and your blowhard buddies also fart out similar comments on other threads that are mostly dedicated to how stupid your comrades are:
http://the911forum.freeforums.org/just-plain-idiots-split-from-smart-idiots-t576-330.html

..And how funny it is to think that all this **** comes from a retired sewer-engineer. What a joke. Not that getting caught matters one bit to you, people like you dont care about that, they just move on like nothing happened. Kind of the story of this sub-forum.

 

[LSSBB]

I see Ziggi can't back up his story that people were educated by this teapot tempest, and results to bogging down with rhetorical word salad.


Moving on...