Brexit: Now What? Part II

[Craig B]

A better analogy would be that a group of you are standing on the edge of a cliff, and the field you're standing in is covered with **** and populated with diseased and vicious predators.

Ah, Johnnie Foreigner. I'd recognise him anywhere.

 

[Tolls]

A better analogy would be that a group of you are standing on the edge of a cliff, and the field you're standing in is covered with **** and populated with diseased and vicious predators.

Is that seriously how you view the EU?

Christ on a bike...

 

[ceptimus]

So, no actual evidence at all would convince you that leaving the EU is a bad idea? This still leaves you in the position of a fundamentalist. - No evidence will sway you because you know what's right without critical examination.

You don't have any evidence that remaining will be better. We've both made our choice based on opinion and prediction rather than evidence. Evidence, by definition, won't be available till afterwards.

 

[Tolls]

And on with the "Experts? Experts?? We don' need no steenkin' experts!"...

 

[3point14]

And on with the "Experts? Experts?? We don' need no steenkin' experts!"...

It's best just to guess, I suppose.


Learning and extrapolating from past experience is clearly a mug's game. It's amazed we've achieved such social progress in the last 60 years using such a flawed methodology.



The most disturbing thing about all of this is how easy it seems to pull a bait and switch and have, it seems, half the country blaming the wrong people.

Our own government(s) have overseen the selling off of large parts of UK infrastructure to foreign investors and have seen wealth inequality rise at an exponential rate since about, say 1980 ish. Practially none of the issues facing the UK at the moment are of Europe's making and it's so easy to see that with just a little reading. It's a work of Machiavellian statesmanship to convince half the population that it's someone else's fault.

 

[ceptimus]

No - we all agree we could do with some experts that can make reliable and accurate predictions. Trouble is that when it comes to Brexit, there probably aren't any.

Look at the state of the Euro at the moment based on worries over the coming Italian election, and a possible referendum on Euro membership to follow. Even though opinion polls show that most Italians don't want to leave the Euro, "experts" are already predicting everything short of Armageddon if the Italian voters should dare to vote against the status quo.

 

[Darat]

I cannot get over the mindset that can view shafting an entire generation (and more) as worthwhile for something that might be better than we have now. That is happy to drive us off the cliff on the off chance that we discover how to fly before we hit the ground.
Utter madness.

And, I note, that the "it'll all be the foreigners fault" has been nicely keyed in there. Yes, if it's really bad it'll be because they were nasty to us and not because we were being complete ****wits.

On the evidence to date the government is taking lessons from Douglas Adams on how to fly....

There is an art to flying, or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.​

With the utter incompetence the government has shown so far there probably is a good chance that they'd miss!

 

[ceptimus]

It's best just to guess, I suppose.

That's what the so-called experts do. And they tailor their guesses to influence you to vote in their best vested interests.

 

[ceptimus]

With the utter incompetence the government has shown so far...

How have they shown this incompetence? By not revealing to you the minutia of their intended negotiating position ahead of the actual negotiations?

 

[3point14]

No - we all agree we could do with some experts that can make reliable and accurate predictions. Trouble is that when it comes to Brexit, there probably aren't any.

So your advice is to guess and cause massive upheaval and financial instability (because the leaders of other countries do listen to financial experts) because, despite the fact you believe there's no decent advice to be had, the best course of action is the one with the most disruption?

 

[3point14]

That's what the so-called experts do. And they tailor their guesses to influence you to vote in their best vested interests.

Can you evidence the above?

 

[ceptimus]

So your advice is to ,,,

It's not my advice. We had a democratic referendum, in case you've forgotten.

 

[ceptimus]

Can you evidence the above?

I explained above how evidence comes after the event, not before.

 

[3point14]

It's not my advice. We had a democratic referendum, in case you've forgotten.

The results of which are advisory, if you remember.

 

[Dave Rogers]

A better analogy would be that a group of you are standing on the edge of a cliff, and the field you're standing in is covered with **** and populated with diseased and vicious predators. The height of the cliff means there is a chance you can survive the dive into the water below in pretty good shape, and there is an inviting looking island a mile out to sea that you believe you can swim to.

Though, of course, you have no idea whether the inviting looking island is in fact covered a bit deeper in **** and inhabited by even more diseased and vicious predators.

Dave

 

[3point14]

I explained above how evidence comes after the event, not before.

Let's just run the tape again - in order:

That's what the so-called experts do. And they tailor their guesses to influence you to vote in their best vested interests.

Can you evidence the above?

I explained above how evidence comes after the event, not before.

You have no evidence, you state above that you can't have evidence until after the event and yet you firmly hold the position anyway?

Again, could I see your evidence for this:

That's what the so-called experts do. And they tailor their guesses to influence you to vote in their best vested interests.

 

[ceptimus]

The results of which are advisory, if you remember.

Yes. Parliament voted overwhelmingly to solicit that advice - now they have to act on it. Or they can ignore the advice, at their likely peril.

 

[3point14]

Yes. Parliament voted overwhelmingly to solicit that advice - now they have to act on it.

No, they don't

Or they can ignore the advice, at their likely peril.

Or act on it at their peril. How various MP's voted regarding leaving the EU will be, if certain campaigns have their store in order, uppermost in people's minds at the next general election. I and, many others will certainly never, ever vote for an MP who votes to leave the EU.

 

[ceptimus]

You reveal how undemocratic you are. But as it's a democracy, you still have the right to vote however you wish.

 

[3point14]

You reveal how undemocratic you are. But as it's a democracy, you still have the right to vote however you wish.

We live in a representative, not a direct democracy.