President Trump

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Fast Eddie B said:
Except for the perceived racism, each of those characteristics were really shared by both candidates.

IMHO, of course.
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Trump's lying is/was an order of magnitude worse than Hillary who OTOH was better than average for a politician but nevermind gotta keep the lyin' crooked Hillary meme going :rolleyes:
 
The Don said:
Trump's lying is/was an order of magnitude worse than Hillary who OTOH was better than average for a politician but nevermind gotta keep the lyin' crooked Hillary meme going :rolleyes:
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I've always had the impression that Hillary was more dishonest than most. Her lack of charisma probably gave me that impression; that and her long political carreer. However, when I saw the actual numbers, I changed my mind. Most people, when they see that the numbers disagree with their theory, just decide that the numbers are wrong, for some reason (usually because the numbers are rigged).

Trump's numbers, however, are baffling. Who the hell lies 71% of the time?
 
Emily's Cat said:
I've rolled this around in my mind-brain, and I don't know if there's even an answer possible. There are pros and cons to each.

The electoral college creates situations where the person with the larger percentage of people-votes can still end up losing. But going with only the popular vote ends up with some problems too. In particular, the largest population densities are in very small geographic areas. The items of interest to inner-city people in dense metropolitan areas are not the same issues faced by people in suburban or rural areas. If you go with the popular vote alone, you end up with a very small portion of the actual land being the sole deciders. You disenfranchise the entirety of the center of the country. Alaska and Hawaii have no voice at all. We end up with the US brought to you by LA and NYC. As someone living in Washington, the issues and interests of the average LA dweller aren't the same ones I face.

I don't know how to balance the diversity that exists across the US with the density of a small number of cities.
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You do understand how the government was set up, don't you? The President represents the whole country. You have Congressmen/women who represent your local interests and Senators who represent your state's interests. They make up the Legislative branch. The President, Vice-President and their cabinet are to represent ALL of the people and areas.

With a system based on the popular vote the ten thousand voters in Boise would be just as important to a liberal politician as the ten thousand anywhere else. More so than at present. Right now, the liberals (boo! evil libruls!) freely demonize and don't give a rat's ass about the voters in Cheyenne or Boise or Provo. Even if they get an extra 100,000 in each state, they still get zero tally in the final vote.
 
Argumemnon said:
I've always had the impression that Hillary was more dishonest than most. Her lack of charisma probably gave me that impression; that and her long political carreer. However, when I saw the actual numbers, I changed my mind. Most people, when they see that the numbers disagree with their theory, just decide that the numbers are wrong, for some reason (usually because the numbers are rigged).
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In Hillary's case a lot of it was the same things being dragged up time and again. Reminds me of an old joke:

A man goes into a pub in a small town and, for whatever reason, gets introduced to the clientele. There’s Farmer Jack, Barman Jim, Maurice “Dancer” and Sheepshagger John. After a few pints, the visitor’s curiosity gets the better of him and he asks John what’s with the nickname.

“See this pub?” asks John, “I built it, but they don’t call me Pubbuilder John? I’m the local doctor, I saved Barman Jim’s life once when he choked on a peanut, but they don’t call me Lifesaver John. Every year, I supply a huge Christmas tree for the village green, but the don’t call me Christmas Tree John.

“But you shag one lousy sheep…”

Argumemnon said:
Trump's numbers, however, are baffling. Who the hell lies 71% of the time?
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Well, those are only the things that were fact checked - and thus where there was some form of controversy. I'm sure her tells the truth more than 29% of the time when every single thing out of his mouth is considered.

Of course Trump said a lot of crazy stuff during his campaign so it stands to reason that a lot of it is untrue.
 
The Don said:
Well, those are only the things that were fact checked - and thus where there was some form of controversy. I'm sure her tells the truth more than 29% of the time when every single thing out of his mouth is considered.
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Have you ever seen interviews with the guy over the years?
 
The Don said:
Trump's lying is/was an order of magnitude worse than Hillary who OTOH was better than average for a politician but nevermind gotta keep the lyin' crooked Hillary meme going :rolleyes:
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The Republicans strategy was well known. They meant to make Hillary toxic for the last few years knowing she would be the party's nominee. They did a great job too. The Ben Ghazzi investigation was a joke, but they were able to make it the news for a year. The emails too was a joke. But it was water torture. Say the same thing for 2 years about somebody and eventually people will believe it.

The mistake the Dems keep making is annointing a candidate instead of a real competition for the job.I still think Hillary would have made a great president, but she always sucked as a candidate.

But this can't be all about Hillary, can it? I'm trying to get my head around why anyone would vote for Trump for dogcatcher, let alone President. I admit, I wouldn't have voted for any of the Republicans. But I can understand why they would vote for Romney, Bush, McCain and all of Trump's primary opponents, but not Trump. There has to be something about Trump that makes people who KNOW Trump is lying to them and will cheat them and still buy from him.
 
Foolmewunz said:
You do understand how the government was set up, don't you? The President represents the whole country. You have Congressmen/women who represent your local interests and Senators who represent your state's interests. They make up the Legislative branch. The President, Vice-President and their cabinet are to represent ALL of the people and areas.

With a system based on the popular vote the ten thousand voters in Boise would be just as important to a liberal politician as the ten thousand anywhere else. More so than at present. Right now, the liberals (boo! evil libruls!) freely demonize and don't give a rat's ass about the voters in Cheyenne or Boise or Provo. Even if they get an extra 100,000 in each state, they still get zero tally in the final vote.
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But, that's not true. I'm a liberal and I care very much about the people in small towns like Cheyenne.

I'll give you an example of something I don't like though. I live in the Seattle area. King County. The most populous county by far in the State of Washington. Overall, only about 40 percent of our tax revenue is used for services in this county. Whereas we have rural counties in the State where three times as much money than tax revenue is spent on services there. Yet inevitably it's people from these rural counties are constantly complaining about the Socialist liberals in Seattle. Never mind that they have been suckling on our tit forever.

People in Iowa, Missouri, Alabama, Mississippi etc.the reddest states by far get more revenues than New York, California, Washington the blue states. I don't even mind that. But I've had it with the damn tail wagging the dog. Enough is enough.
 
acbytesla said:
There has to be something about Trump that makes people who KNOW Trump is lying to them and will cheat them and still buy from him.
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IMO, it's his brazenness. As others have pointed out people seem to have a soft spot for the "bad boy" or the "lovable rogue" - maybe it's just something hardwired into some people. Then there's another group of people who fall into the "let's shake things up" camp.
 
Jrrarglblarg said:
I've been whirligigging in my mind about this, but I think it's unproductive.

I think it's time to get involved in party politics. :shudder:
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I use to be heavily involved in party politics. I loved it. But I had to stop because it became all consuming. I would recommend that you try it. You may find you actually like it.
 
acbytesla said:
The mistake the Dems keep making is annointing a candidate instead of a real competition for the job.I still think Hillary would have made a great president, but she always sucked as a candidate.
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Wouldn't something have to happen constantly in order to say they "keep" making that mistake? They didn't "annoint" Obama.
 
Argumemnon said:
I've always had the impression that Hillary was more dishonest than most. Her lack of charisma probably gave me that impression; that and her long political carreer. However, when I saw the actual numbers, I changed my mind. Most people, when they see that the numbers disagree with their theory, just decide that the numbers are wrong, for some reason (usually because the numbers are rigged).

Trump's numbers, however, are baffling. Who the hell lies 71% of the time?
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It is kind of surprising it is only 71% of the time really.
 
The Don said:
IMO, it's his brazenness. As others have pointed out people seem to have a soft spot for the "bad boy" or the "lovable rogue" - maybe it's just something hardwired into some people. Then there's another group of people who fall into the "let's shake things up" camp.
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The shake things up is also hard wired into people. Like as a kid thinking, "what if I blow this up?" I guess America will be the next Darwin Award winner. About a hundred years ago as a publicity stunt they ran two trains together at high speed and people came from all around to watch. But many people were killed watching this stunt from the exploding shrapnel.
 
NoahFence said:
Wouldn't something have to happen constantly in order to say they "keep" making that mistake? They didn't "annoint" Obama.
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No, but they damn well tried to anoint her. The Clintons are fantastic at working the system. Biden at least needed to run as well.
 
acbytesla said:
The shake things up is also hard wired into people. Like as a kid thinking, "what if I blow this up?" I guess America will be the next Darwin Award winner. About a hundred years ago as a publicity stunt they ran two trains together at high speed and people came from all around to watch. But many people were killed watching this stunt from the exploding shrapnel.
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Looks like only 2 or 3 out of 40,000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crush,_Texas
 
acbytesla said:
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But I think Hillary explains only part of it. There has to be something about Trump that makes people knowingly eat his crap and go "yummy, I want some more". Sort of the way many women are attracted to the bad boy that THEY KNOW IS A LYING CHEATING BASTARD and ignore any good men they encounter.
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I am coming to the view that the veneer that civilization provides to hide the cave in us is coming apart. We are back to our old selves, in which case sucking up to gain advantage is the only criterion, not if the big boss is an ass, which he inevitably is.

In this election, we have Trump as the supposed Good Hunter (but his prowess is an invention). We have Gingrich as Medicine Man, spouting spooky nonsense, and Giuliani as the aging Cave Boss who has a hard on for his up and coming pet, the Hunter. People want to eat, so they sucked up. Messages are irrelevant. Smack-downs and gruff dismissals await the irksome and uncooperative. And while women are barely tolerated, everyone else who are not of the same cave is scheduled for death at worst and ignored irrelevance at best.

This is mankind when things are not always on the up and up, and what build-ups to major wars feel like. Grab a spear, or hide like a lone wolf.
 
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