Hillary Clinton is Done: part 4

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applecorped said:
:dl::dl::dl::dl:
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Yet another contentless post from you. Has it ever been other than this? Argument by smilies is the height of your "contribution" to this forum.

Have you ever posted more than one line? Advanced an argument? Of course not.

I was wrong. But I'm still laughing at the stupidity of the US electorate. I will laugh at Trump, even though it will be a bitter laugh given the damage he will do.

But keep up posting like this. Extremely amusing.
 
Trakar said:
a moment of silence?

I kept trying to tell them that a vote for Hillary was a vote for Trump, but this didn't jibe well with their preferred take on reality, and now that more evidence is in they still want to blame any likely suspect except the one looking at them in the mirror.
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He wouldn't have had to do much better to have won it all. Add the supporters that told you ahead of time that they could not support Clinton if she won the primary (along with all uninspired, normally Democratic supporters who just felt lost between two completely dreadful choices and chose other ways to express that disgust with both establishment parties, and Bernie would probably be meeting with the heads on the new Democratic majority in the Senate figuring out how to get a single payer option passed in new legislation.

Instead you just had to see if you could get a candidate that most of the American electorate disliked elected from the party which had already held the white house, with a largely unliked president for the last two terms.

Trying to replace one unpopular president with another even more unpopular option from the same establishment party who was promising more of the same in a year when people were excited about changing the status quo, was just completely arrogant ignorance apparently fostered by blind entitlement run amok by a tone-deaf fan-boy political cult completely out of touch with the electorate and general population.
 
nelsondogg said:
Maybe she should have picked Bernie for VP and set him loose in the rust belt. Kaine brought nothing to the ticket.
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Actually choosing Conservative Kaine was designed to form a bridge to right leaning independents and all it really did was further piss off and alienate the traditional democratic base and progressives.
 
wareyin said:
A vote for Clinton was a vote for Trump? And you are talking about other people's "take on reality?"
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And what was the result of DNC engineering to eliminate Sanders and the Hillary fanatics doing everything they could to not only attack, but also bad mouth his supporters and try to shut them out of the Democratic party ?

Looks to me like it elected Trump.

What happened in your reality?
 
wareyin said:
This makes just as much sense as voting for Trump because Clinton is a liar. We all know that Trump lies 3 times as much, so this opinion is, again based on misinformation and ignorance.
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That makes no sense at all. The opinion that someone is not likeable is an impression, not something subject to additional information.
 
Foolmewunz said:
Hillary Clinton may have been the last time a party takes a chance on a legacy candidate. The legacy is the danger. Twenty-five years of detritus in the modern political milieu is too much.

The GOP played right into their hands but they still couldn't polish the turd that was Clinton's history sufficiently to defeat the most despicable maverick of a candidate this side of George Wallace. Trump and the alt-right handlers followed the old axiom, K.I.S.S. and it was an easier sell than explaining away the nuances of four hundred complex and confusing deals, compromises, decisions...
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Largely agreed and the sentiments that I was expressing back last year as one of the main reasons Hillary was a huge liability in this election cycle.
 
Foolmewunz said:
In a game where there's no winner, making it into a zero sum equation is difficult. I'm not playing at know-it-all. I look forward to your continued support for The Trump. I predict it will be a very short career now that the desired result has been achieved.

You had, at one point, the single coherent argument against Clinton. You got lost along the way. But if you think the Clinton adventures were murderous, wait'll you see what Flynn and Newt get into.

Anyhow, this thread, as you note, can be closed. She's done. Either of them, at 70, would've been finished after a loss; it's Hillary who did so, so she's done.
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I don't see how the GOP's potential militaristic adventurism abrogates Clinton's militaristic adventurism, but either way there is still a lot of work to be done.
 
phiwum said:
I find Trump considerably less likeable.
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unlikeable and intolerable is still an issue, even if one unlikeable and intolerable candidate is slightly less unlikeable and intolerable than the other, that is why lessor evil arguments are always unacceptable. Whatever happens you are left with evil.
 
Childlike Empress said:
I've stopped making that argument because people didn't care about it, if you remember. After all it weren't Yankistanis who were slaughtered. I think you will be wrong on this as well. Contrary to "humanitarian interventionist" scum like Powers, Nuland and Rice, the people Trump will hire after firing them will be people who know what war is.
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... who know what war is AND LOVE IT. You're not naive enough to believe those NYT reports of the big money that deserted Trump. Those were individuals. The truly big money in the military industrial complex was right there. Karl Rove and his poor-mouthing fooled people? Find out how much money he spent actually winning this election for Trump. He spent tens of millions in North Carolina. On Fox on election night (yeah, I watch the enemy camp) as Tucker or Megyn or one of them was waxing poetic about the race in New Hampshire being proof of the resonance Trump and his rallying campaign had "with the little man", they pan to Rove who's just short of guffawing as he says, "I represent a PAC that spent 23 million in North Carolina and as much as thirty million in New Hampshire. We could've literally sat down with every voter in the state and made them an offer."

Bush, Cheney, the aerospace (read: fighter jets and choppers) and military-industrial complex.... they were all there. Trump's their Trojan Horse. Wanna bet that the Trump kiddies start diversifying? He's not even putting his companies into a blind trust, but you can bet that his hedge-fund son-in-law has already told them all where to direct the leftover cash. And his brash advisors... Bannon, Bossie, Stone... all window-dressing. Find out where the Mercers are investing. Wanna bet it's not in windfarms and solar panels?

And to those thinking that Trump will desert the bigots? Don't count on it. They will, in fact, play up to them. It'll keep their minds off the fact that they have brought ZERO manufacturing jobs back to Ohio or Pennsylvania. Keep the lower classes fighting among themselves, after all, it takes their minds off how much the fat cats at the top are stealing. Marx and Engels identified it as an age old tactic a century and a half ago and it still works.
 
What's really sad is that a large fraction of people voting for Hillary didn't do it because they really liked Hillary and were excited about the policies she was supporting, but because they felt she was hopefully going to be at least a little better than Trump,...a recipe for failure.

The flip side of lessor evil, even when they win, no one's excited and enthused about the win.
 
phiwum said:
I find Trump considerably less likeable.
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There's no comparison. Trump has exactly zero redeeming qualities. But it doesn't surprise me folk who adore Putin are also creaming over their new hero. I'd be surprised if they weren't.
 
Did I say it already? Many posts in this thread sound remarkably like CTers raging at each other...
 
wareyin said:
I was going to point out that some people voted for Trump because they just plain didn't like Clinton, but then I realized that that dislike is because of decades of misinformation from the right, and ignorance of how they had been sold a bill of goods.
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I don't know how true this is. If you look at HC's favourability rating you will see that they were consistently 50%+, and often into the 60s all throughout the 2000s and early 2010s. Her net favorability was +20s and sometimes +30s during this time. There really wasn't much of an effect from the far-right attacking her day in and day out for 30 years. People expect that generally just ignore it. It is only very recently that her favorability has fallen into the 30s and that her net favorability has turned to a negative score. And when you look at a graph of her favourability ratings it looks like a cliff.

In a couple months, Sanders did more damage to Clinton than the far-right managed to do in 25 years and then after claiming she was completely untrustworthy and basically the devil for months he told his followers that now they should vote for her.

Trump will probably not just replace Scalia, but also Kennedy, Ginsburg and Breyer with young Scalia clones. Even if a Sanders type gets elected President sometime in the next 30 years the Supreme court will assure that the only radical reforms that can occur are ones in the far-right direction. That will be Sanders legacy.
 
Trakar said:
What's really sad is that a large fraction of people voting for Hillary didn't do it because they really liked Hillary and were excited about the policies she was supporting, but because they felt she was hopefully going to be at least a little better than Trump,...a recipe for failure.
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"The latest ABC News survey reveals that, in fact, Clinton’s voters feel about as positively about their candidate as any candidate’s supporters have felt about their own preferred candidate since 1980. Trump voters are less enthusiastic about him: Since 1980, no group of supporters has been less affirmative in its support for its candidate.

Right now, 56 percent of Clinton voters say they are mainly for her compared with just 42 percent of the same voters who say they are voting against Trump.

In the same survey, only 41 percent of Trump supporters say they are voting for him, while 54 percent say they are mostly voting against Clinton."
 
It's going to be interesting to see how Obama threads this needle with pardons, or if he abandons Hillary...

Wikileaks just dumped three more loads of encrypted data, their Deadman Switch on yet more material to be leaked on the US Government.

The Podesta leaks were so fascinating I just followed their twitter directly and sundry social media sleuths piecing different parts with it together with the other avalanches of data.

One thing I picked up that I do not see much discussion on was Podesta and others, like Secretary Colin Powell talking about other communication channels. They had more than these emails outside of official government channels. I wonder what it was?

The material picked up by the New York City police department through their Weiner investigation (!) is yet to break. I don't mean Comey's lame renditions, but the evidence itself.

Who knows what Wikileaks has, but it's coming. I can hardly wait and I don't care who it brings down, the important thing is to have the public see how our government is being run. Up to now, it has become increasingly run as a crime syndicate by establishment insiders of both parties.

Who I trust is Wikileaks.
 
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