Who killed Meredith Kercher? part 23

Status
Not open for further replies.
No, I was not making fun of Stacey. I was questioning her propensity to claim to know what Amanda was thinking. OK, so she pointed out her email home, and I replied, well she would claim that wouldn't she? She's hardly going to say anything that's not an innocuous explanation for bleeding the same time as Mez.

This is why it helps to be objective, rather than assuming one knows someone else's motives or thoughts.


Stacy did not assume she knew Amanda's motives or thoughts. She merely repeated what Amanda said. Can't get much more objective than that.

What mechanism is it that you use to differentiate between the things Amanda said that support her case (which you discard) versus the things she said that support your case (which you hold to be true)?
 
The kind of cells we shed in skin and hair are generally dead cells and there is very little DNA to be gleaned from them. DNA degrades very quickly due to bacteria, heat, etc., so a good sample of the sort found mixed in with Mez' wherein Mez' DNA came from her white blood cells (as we can assume she did not place her blood in the sink), which is a very rich source of DNA and which had greater DNA than that even of a fatally bleeding Mez, a forensic scientist can reasonably make inferences as to the source of that DNA.

Oh, dear. What nonsense. Even Stefanoni said the source of Amanda's DNA was not identifiable. Saliva is full of epithelial cells which come from the mouth. Imagine finding saliva in a sink?!
 
Saliva is a good course of DNA

Oh, dear. What nonsense. Even Stefanoni said the source of Amanda's DNA was not identifiable. Saliva is full of epithelial cells which come from the mouth. Imagine finding saliva in a sink?!
Bingo.
 
Stacy did not assume she knew Amanda's motives or thoughts. She merely repeated what Amanda said. Can't get much more objective than that.

What mechanism is it that you use to differentiate between the things Amanda said that support her case (which you discard) versus the things she said that support your case (which you hold to be true)?[/QUOTE]

Oh, let me answer! Let me answer!

Ummmmm...confirmation bias?
 
Oh, dear. What nonsense. Even Stefanoni said the source of Amanda's DNA was not identifiable. Saliva is full of epithelial cells which come from the mouth. Imagine finding saliva in a sink?!

It's plain as day why the Italian Supreme Court annulled Nencini's conviction of the pair.

There is the prosecution's DNA expert (!) saying that the source of DNA was unknown, but Nencini says it must have been skin cells from Knox vigorously rubbing blood from her hands.

Nencini even admits this is his own theorizing.

It is theorizing with NO evidence, other than Nencini's guesses.

At this point, one then needs to read the ISC motivations report, to read how Nencini misapplied his judicial function.

It's all there.
 
What did you think I was talking about? Vecchiotti confirmed under oath there was no reasonable possibility of contamination in Stefanoni's labs.

Er, you do know there are just two alleles per chromosome? So to get seventeen alleles...?

Incidentally, if you have a jumble of different persons DNA, the chances that any SNP will match anything other than the indiviudal to which it belongs is vanishingly remote unless they are cousins of some sort up to twelve times removed. You seem to be saying the seventeen alleles found of Raff's was a mixture of all sorts of fragments.

This is a clear sign your comment is mere obfuscation to conceal the fact that Raff's clear DNA profile was found on the bra clasp; 17 alleles, counting ONLY those above 50 RFUS's.

There is no innocent explanation for his DNA being there. Aside from the conspiracy theories that 'police planted it because they didn't like his American girlfriend and Stefanoni although observed by at least two sets of forensic experts for the defence, including Prof Torres, none of whom complained of any contamination issues at the time, must have somehow introduced in plain sight, Raff's DNA on to the bra clasp...er,...um...because it was a conspiracy to frame the kids.'

Not according to Dr Peter Gill:

"With respect to the collection of the bra clasp, Dr. Gill wrote: “There is strong evidence to show that the failure of investigators to change their gloves in between handling items and potentially touching door handles is high risk, giving credibility to the defense proposition that Sollecito’s DNA was transferred as a result of cross contamination.” Dr. Gill goes on to say that the principle of cross transfer mediated by latex gloves is demonstrably high risk."

But what does a world renowned DNA expert know about this compared to you?
 
Oh, dear. What nonsense. Even Stefanoni said the source of Amanda's DNA was not identifiable. Saliva is full of epithelial cells which come from the mouth. Imagine finding saliva in a sink?!

If there was a strong case against Amanda and Raffaele, why does Vixen has to resort to using stupid arguments with no scientific validity.
 
Vixen claims Amanda's blood was in the bathroom and there was clear evidence Amanda had washed off Meredith's blood. If this was true, this would be damming slam dunk evidence. If the prosecution had such a solid piece of evidence at their disposal, why did the prosecution have to resort to telling numerous lies, suppressing evidence, using false documents, using smear tactics and using evidence with no credibility.
 
Last edited:
AIUI both types of testing were done. Professor Novelli calculated that the odds of the YSTR test being from a 'random man' was over three billion to one against. Prof David Balding is a strong advocate of performing statistical probability on forensic results.


The fact there is also the DNA of at least one other male (the rest were fragments of the 'household dust type') does NOT cancel out Raff's DNA.

The matching markers in the YSTR whilst it could also relate to Raff's close male relatives, the BARD standard rules out anyone other than Raff at the scene touching the bra clasp.




~ Nencini Appeal http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/The_Nencini_Sentencing_Report_(English_PDF)


Seriously, please. You manifestly do not understand anything beyond the most extreme basics of DNA science. Your "arguments" are continually embarrassingly wrong - factually, scientifically, empirically wrong - in pretty much everything you write in respect of DNA and DNA analysis. It's laughable. And obviously it's capable of being near-instantaneously dismissed as worthless contribution to the debate.
 
Thanks for FINALLY posting part of the Nencinni report, but other than id'ing it as a "court document", you have missed that this "reasoning" - hypothesizing - on the part of Nencini is precisely the reason why the Supreme Court annulled his conviction and exonerated the pair.

Read the "court document" from the Supreme Court of 2015. It said that it was not enough for a judge to "hypothesize". There has to be evidence to convict someone.


Not to mention the rather glaring fact that the Nencini motivations report now has precisely..... ZERO..... standing in law (or ethics). Nencini's verdict (and, obviously, the report associated with underpinning and explaining that verdict) was permanently and wholly struck out and nullified by the Marasca SC ruling. As was the Massei verdict and motivations report. The Hellmann verdict and motivations report had already been struck out by the Chieffi ruling.

All that's left in Italian law, in terms of verdicts and motivations in respect of the murder charges, is the Marasca SC verdict and motivations report. That's it. Quoting from ANY other (now-nullified and worthless) motivations report is not only irrelevant and moot, it's also legally and ethically dishonest. Vixen.
 
The kind of cells we shed in skin and hair are generally dead cells and there is very little DNA to be gleaned from them. DNA degrades very quickly due to bacteria, heat, etc., so a good sample of the sort found mixed in with Mez' wherein Mez' DNA came from her white blood cells (as we can assume she did not place her blood in the sink), which is a very rich source of DNA and which had greater DNA than that even of a fatally bleeding Mez, a forensic scientist can reasonably make inferences as to the source of that DNA.


Total scientific garbage.

Edited by jsfisher: 
<snip> Edited for compliance with Rules 11 and 12 of the Membership Agreement.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is where Marasca-Bruno is completely and unequivocally bent.

Of course a judge reasons. It's what they are paid very handsomely to do.


I may not agree with everything Nencini says, but I cannot fault his reasoning, which falls well within the bounds of reasonable, within his wide-ranging powers and within his jurisdiction.

Marasca had to turn to Hellmann, which tells you all you need to know about its integrity.


Marasca used EVIDENCE adduced in the Hellmann court. Marasca did not "turn to Hellmann". The loaded (and incorrect) bias on display is, once again, very telling though. Intellectual dishonesty, once again.
 
Vixen claims Amanda's blood was in the bathroom and there was clear evidence Amanda had washed off Meredith's blood. If this was true, this would be damming slam dunk evidence. If the prosecution had such a solid piece of evidence at their disposal, why did the prosecution have to resort to telling numerous lies, suppressing evidence, using false documents, using smear tactics and using evidence with no credibility.


Exactly. The objective reality, of course, is that there is no such evidence.

The genuinely shocking thing, to me, of this whole area of the case is how fortunate we (and Knox/Sollecito) are to have the video recording of the inept CSI operation in this case. Because of that video, we know with 100% certainty exactly how the sink and the bidet in the small bathroom were swabbed for evidence by the incompetent team led by not-a-real-doctor (and most definitely not-a-competent-crime-scene-analyst) Stefanoni. We know with 100% certainty that each of the swabs that was taken for DNA and blood testing was obtained NOT by carefully "spotting" very small points on the surface of the sink/bidet (thereby only collecting evidence from very small, specific areas), but instead the incompetent doing the swabbing made long, sweeping motions across long lengths (up to 20-30cm long at times) across the sink/bidet.

This meant (obviously and self-evidently) that each swab picked up any and all matter along the entire length of this sweeping motion. It's therefore (and again obviously and self-evidently) clearly possible that any particular swab might contain physical evidence that had originally been present up to 20-30cm apart in the sink or bidet. It's therefore (and again.....) clearly possible that drops of Kercher's blood could have been collected on the same swab as DNA from Knox that might, for example, have been as a result of epithelial shedding from tooth-brushing, where Kercher's blood was at one spot on the surface of the sink, and Knox's epithelial DNA was as far as 30cm away on another area altogether of the sink's surface.

The shock is that if this video hadn't existed and been publicly available, the prosecution might have been able to hoodwink courts that the evidence collection from the sink/bidet had been done scrupulously properly, and that if Kercher's and Knox's DNA was present on the same swab, this must mean that both women's DNA had been lying intermixed on the surface of the sink (with the obvious implication that both women's DNA must have been deposited at the same time).

Looking back, I wonder why the police and prosecution didn't try to suppress the damning CSI video. Perhaps it was due to regulations stipulating that the full video must be made available. Perhaps it was because the prosecution and police actually didn't even realise how damning it was, and how inept and shockingly incompetent it made their operation out to be.........
 
uixen;11575126]Do read the court documents. It is a scientifically established fact Amanda washed Mez' blood from her hands. Your denying it doesn't change it.[/QUOTE]

Please explain some of the science used to establish this.
 
uixen;11575126]Do read the court documents. It is a scientifically established fact Amanda washed Mez' blood from her hands. Your denying it doesn't change it.

Please explain some of the science used to establish this.[/QUOTE]

She can't. Because there is none. Oh, wait...do you want real science or her version of it?
 
It is a scientifically established fact that Mignini is a bullying, law-skirting, law-manipulating, moralistic egotist who is unfit to act as a public prosecutor.

:D
 
Please explain some of the science used to establish this.

She can't. Because there is none. Oh, wait...do you want real science or her version of it?

Even Nencini in his now debunked motivations report says the business of Knox wiping the victim's blood off of her hands is his own theorizing - science had never had anything to do with the now debunked claim.


But Vixen just chucks in the term "scientific fact" to make it sound better, not because there's any basis to it. It's part of her PRCampaign.
 
Even Nencini in his now debunked motivations report says the business of Knox wiping the victim's blood off of her hands is his own theorizing - science had never had anything to do with the now debunked claim.


But Vixen just chucks in the term "scientific fact" to make it sound better, not because there's any basis to it. It's part of her PRCampaign.

Does this include being a paid shill?
 
not in stutter postion

From the table that Vixen presented:
"DYS390 22-23-24 22"

The presence of peaks at 23 and 24 repeat units must mean that two other men contributed to the clasp. These are not in stutter position, and they are not from Guede. If, as was done for 36B, one relaxes the 50 RFU threshold, the number of male contributors rises further.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom