You are not thereby demonstrating antisemitism any more than by disliking (for example) the Soviet annexation of the Baltic Republics, you would have been exhibiting anti-Russianism. Or by deploring S African Apartheid you would have been anti-White.
Split Thread the TM and anti-semitism
- Thread starter JSanderO
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Why should Israel be in the conversation anyway? I think Israel is often unfairly castigated by antisemitic conspiracymongers. Just as the USSR stood to be condemned for many crimes, but it was often unfairly targeted by fantasists with preposterous theories about Judaeo-Bolshevik world conspiracies etc, as if Brezhnev was concerned about such things, when all he wanted was an easy and peaceful existence for his decrepit regime.
Oystein
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In my previous post, I made the following claims:
Sure enought, Criteria posted after I asked him this - and he did not answer that straight question!
Criteria, you earlier insinuated that there are as many anti-semites among debunkers as there are among truthers.
Can you name a 9/11 "debunker" who is an antisemite? Is there even one anti-semitic debunker here?
I will take you anticipated non-answer, or evasive answer, as your conscious and voluntary agreement to my two claims:
Later in the very same post, I essentially tested that claim by asking Criteria a straigt question:
Sure enought, Criteria posted after I asked him this - and he did not answer that straight question!
Criteria, you earlier insinuated that there are as many anti-semites among debunkers as there are among truthers.
Can you name a 9/11 "debunker" who is an antisemite? Is there even one anti-semitic debunker here?
I will take you anticipated non-answer, or evasive answer, as your conscious and voluntary agreement to my two claims:
- Truthers, under no circumstances whatsoever, give straight and honest answers to straight questions.
- You, Criteria, are a model example of this.
Criteria
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You are inviting me to get banned.
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It always bothered me that that ******* took the name of the actor who played the very good and noble Lone Ranger.
Oystein
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Clearly not, as I previously called members anti-semites, and never even got a slap with a feather when I called, for example, notconvinced (earlier in this very thread) an anti-semite.
Did you report me when I suggested you are an anti-semite? If not, why not? You didn't think that was against board rules, right? So I am clearly not inviting you to get banned
Thanks for evading the question, as predicted, and your conscious and voluntary agreement to my two claims:
- Truthers, under no circumstances whatsoever, give straight and honest answers to straight questions.
- You, Criteria, are a model example of this.
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
I would think it wasn't a banning offence to link to a post in which a debunker displays anti-Semitic statements. If one's available to be linked to, that is.
Dave
Dave
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The point of my post is that since a nation of people made the claim that they were chosen by a God calling itself (among other names) as "The God of all Gods,"...people chosen to be an example to the rest of the human race... there has been much to live up to and the whole thought introduced into the human situation has resulted in the reality we are currently experiencing as a world of nations, altogether.
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
Criteria: I remain disappointingly uncastigated. How do you explain this in light of your earlier post?
Criteria
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Maybe "immediately" was too challengeable a word.
Charges of anti-semitism are commonly made in response to any 9/11 questions that might cast a shadow on Israel.
This is a 9/11 sub-forum and this particular thread topic is about whether the 9/11 Truth Movement suffers from anti-Jewish (anti-semitism) bigotry.
Your statement; "I condemn Israel's policy of continuing settlement construction in areas considered by the international community to be Palestinian.", is not the same as saying; "Israel's National Security profited greatly when 9/11 bred a hugely de-stabilizing military and government reform commitment from the U.S. and the U.K."
Here are two other statements
- Israel is supporting the construction of illegal settlements on Palestinian land.
- Israel was responsible for the 9/11 outrage.
Because I accept the first, does that mean that I must accept the second? I would say not; and I do not.
Ignorance, anti-semitism, and bigotry make it easy for those 9/11 truthers who share all three traits to fall for lies dumber than dirt - 9/11 truth's only product.
The bigotry of 9/11 truth is against science, physics, math, reason, and truth. 9/11 truth followers believe in lies so darn stupid, it is not surprising those with bigotry against Jews join the celebration of ignornace and hate.
No surprise 9/11 truth, David Duke, and KKK support Donald Trump; 9/11 truth is the movement of ignorance based on the overwhelming ignorance of the believers, the 9/11 truth faith based followers.
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
I have highlighted the parts of your original statement that you have subsequently backed away from.
Let's now turn to what little remains, taking into account your revision of your first post.
Your proposed post about Israel profiting from the world situation post-9/11 as being one that would invite accusations of Holocaust denial seems unlikely to provoke such a reaction. It does not fit your criteria
D ) of being a post that attacks Israel's behaviour: it merely comments on the effect on Israel of the behaviour of others. Do please clarify. Are you saying that pointing out an interpretation of the effect of international events on Israel's national security invites accusations of "hate-mongering, anti-semitism and Holocaust denial"? If so, do you have any evidence of this?On a slight tangent, I would also like to know why you think that increased instability in the Middle East, coupled with rising anti-semitism in that area (due to Muslim conspiracy theories about Mossad's complicity in 9/11 and the subsequent fall-out on Muslim countries) results in profit for Israel's national security situation?
Oystein
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Rational and honest people would be interested in the anwswers, and would be interested in what on earth, if not pure anti-semitism, gave rise to these questions.
Now, are you interested in answers? Are truthers interested in answers? No, because:
- Truthers, under no circumstances whatsoever, give straight and honest answers to straight questions.
- You, Criteria, are a model example of this.
The answers to "any 9/11 questions that might cast a shadow on Israel", however, are simple: Israel has nothing to do with the conspiracy that perpetrated 9/11. Why, there is not a shred of evidence. Only anti-semites can believe otherwise, as to them, Israel, and the Jews, are guilty to start with.
Mark F
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Are they?
I smell false global generalization.
How frequently is common?
What is the context of these charges?
Who specifically is allegedly making these charges?
By "any" to do mean "all"?
This is a 9/11 sub-forum and this particular thread topic is about whether the 9/11 Truth Movement suffers from anti-Jewish (anti-semitism) bigotry.
Is this a claim allegedly being met with charges of anti-Semitism from un-named debunkers?
If so, when and where? Do you have actual examples?
Have you in particular been accused of anti-semitism for expressing the above sentiment?
And on a side note, even if the above claim is true, so what? Its a bit like saying New York City construction workers profited greatly when 9/11 created massive new employment opportunities.
Again, not a Chicken v. Egg thing.
Navigator
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In a general sense that is the impression given out by the TM. It has been this way for a very long time.
It doesn't matter whether the anti-Jew statements are coming from the christian fundies sector or the Islamic fundies sector or the secular sector...it appears that one cannot speak about world conspiracies without mention of the Jews part in the process and Israels involvement.
All the world is the stage and the play revolves around the general conspiracy theory that the very few which have maintained a hold on their gains and passed these onto their offspring etc are, with that, maintaining a perpetual hold of ownership over those who are not regarded as part of the final solution because they are (and have always been) contrary to that solution.
Where 'the Jews' are involved in this unfolding drama, is well enough written into their own history - in stories which defy atheist mind-sets (due to the obvious content) but have nonetheless played their part in relation to fulfilled prophesy related to Israel.
This is the basis for most conspiracy theory, and world events (such as 9/11) have to naturally enough 'fit' into those events in relation to conspiracy.
I think it is a reasonable argument to claim that the phrase 'anti Semitic' is over-used/inappropriately used in relation to world criticism regarding the actions of Israel in relation to Her neighbors.
However, it has to be noted that - due to the reasons which my other two posts in this thread have already noted, Israel has attracted a lot of that for herself - in relation to the special place the Jew has in relation to their idea of God and His agenda in regard to this world.
His agenda and the agenda of Israel are irrevocably entwined...in relation to this world.
Of course, in relation to atheist interpretation, that is all 'poppycock' so therefore 'no conspiracy of such nature can actually be true...' but atheist interpretation is not the greatest tool in which to make an honest appraisal because it doesn't take into account (to any serious degree) the nature of religious belief systems - nor for that matter does it seem to want to do the math regarding the common atheist claim that the Abrahamic God is 'evil' in relation to the events of the world, biblical prophecy, Christian and Jewish mutual support systems, et al...and thus "no conspiracy is actually taking place". Thus 'truthers' are not being truthful.
Truthers are paranoid, deluded..etc.
Then there is all the misinformation seeded into that movement - much of it reasonable grounds for dismissing the whole claim of a world conspiracy and Israels role in such a thing.
From my own perspective at least, I agree with the truthers that this world is a prison and we are all prisoners - even those administering the prison - but that there has always been a concerted move to improve the quality of the prison and make it more livable for all the prisoners, and there has been great and ferocious opposition to that agenda by different blocks of prisoners who are administered by extremely evil prisoners who don't want the status quo to change at all as they are extremely happy with the ways things are and have spent centuries forcing that agenda onto the inmates under their control, and - though that on the world population in general.
This to and fro battle is heading for the big brawl and every available weapon (including lying) is being employed.
Israel and Her Samson Option reflect the true nature of The Beast in the understanding of the prisoner mentality - "If I cannot have it, then no one gets it." Harshism...but also realism...Israel is aping the ape as it were. She can be the bully when she wants to...and do it bigger and better than the other bullies around about Her...
Now in my mind I see this - those who don't want anyone, least of all, Israel changing the way things have been and taking over the administration of the prison - as per their G_d's instruction - are the anti-Semites and practice antisemitism and seed that hate into those under their control.
Seriously, that is The Beast. That is the real nature of 'the conspiracy.'
Unfortunately the truther movement is packed jammed full of those sorts and that is the reason why the truther movement is ineffective. It is tolerating lies and made up stories and everything else one can expect from a bunch of prisoners influenced by the extremely nasty evil bullies...and how those ones project upon the face of The Lord an evil thing, in order that that Lord does not get his way...which essentially is to free the prisoners from that very thing and help them to see a new way of looking at things and cooperating together.
It hasn't been an easy ride...but it is past the time of waking up...It is time to get up.
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Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
Can anybody translate that for me? I've read it twice and I'm not getting anything.
Dave
Dave
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Ce qui sera sera
LSSBB
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Forget it Dave. It's Apocalypsetown.
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Essentially yes. In the truest meaning of the word. The veil is lifted.
If you are antisemitic, I strongly suggest that you think about things more deeply and find the way to lay that attitude aside...wake up and smell the roses, and understand Israel the way Israel understands Israel in relation to the role She is playing re the rest of the world.
iow
Examine the obvious,