• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Hanging effigies in trees for Halloween

Foolmewunz said:
It's hard to keep track what y'all are arguing about. Didn't he just agree that a hanging skeleton has an entirely different connotation?

And to put in my .02, no... not all "lynching in trees" are associated with racial lynchings in the south. Many a western movie has cattle rustlers or horsethieves being strung up, IN A TREE, when they get caught up to by a posse.

So, it's not a 100% certainty, but cowboys and rustlers and horse thieves? Well, they wear boots and cowboy hats.
Click to expand...

Indeed, Jrrarglblarg and quadraginta, to me are arguing from broadly the same position, but with quadraginta adding an important caveat to Jrrarglblarg's position.

I think it depends on whether one considers "skeletons" to be "people".

Also, I think it is possible to have a dummy that is clearly a horse thief and that might be possible to not be misconstrued. However someone in modern clothing and in the South. Not such a good idea.

The talk about Guy Fawkes is an interesting parallel considering its history of hatred.

The Lewes Bonfire celebrations have a traditionalist anti-Catholic tradition- nowadays, although they always burn an effigy of the Pope, it might be defended as almost role playing.

In Northern Ireland, the Bonfires are more on the Battle of the Boyne, and are far more obviously sectarian:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34334505
 
I would say quadraginta only THINKS he is arguing with me, because he is confused and feeling combative, but actually agrees with what I said.
 
Jrrarglblarg said:
I would say quadraginta only THINKS he is arguing with me, because he is confused and feeling combative, but actually agrees with what I said.
Click to expand...

Not quite, they were taking issue with the assertion that all hangings in trees are taken to be lynchings of blacks in American cultural context.

Most, yes. Skeletons, probably not, effigies in cowboy outfits, probably not.

And as quadraginta says, they'd understand any Blacks who felt that skeletons in a tree were also directed at them.
 
I've always been fascinated with how some progressives and liberals approach the concept of "cultural baggage."

I'm not going to get into specifics because it's impossible to without the example, not matter how widely hypothetical, taking over the conversation and I'd like to avoid the inevitable

But in general (with all the shouldn't be necessary acknowledgements that all situations are different and all the necessary BOCTAOE butt coverings that are required to keep all political conversations from immediately descending into pointless "Who can find the most out of context meaningless exceptions") I question whether or not it's healthy and good for a society to let the least among us ruin symbols and imagery for us.

Often times the basic argument seems to be "A racist/sexist/homophobic/bigoted person did X, X is now tainted and ruined forever" and I don't know to what degree I can really grove on that wavelength.

No "Racists ruined my ability to display hanged corpses imagery!" is not a hill I'm gonna die defending, but in general the tendency to let "bad"" people ruin things for us is something we should look at I think.
 
Argumemnon said:
It does. I think people should be able to express their ideas freely, even if those ideas are monstrous to us. An evil idea is better purged by light than by shadow.

And there's also the matter of de-powering the evil idea, as I said earlier.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking 20 Gw or so cutting laser for the light.:):):):)
 
NoahFence said:
I wish that would sink into the thick skulls of people who think Trump will somehow defeat ISIS because of his alpha male shtick.
Click to expand...

We could just send him over to deal with them. I'm fine with him, after he loses, being drafted as our Ambassador to Isis............ I'll be looking very forward to his reception there!!!!!
 
jimbob said:
Me too, and I'm British. But I have listened to Billie Holiday.



No. The difference is because skeletons are spooky, and look old, whilst hanged effigies of what looks like brown people people dressed in clothes associated with black teenagers, in a region of the country where people hanged blacks in the same manner are a threat.

[qimg]http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/rfstack/000000_88.jpg[/qimg]
Click to expand...

I really did not catch the subtlety there, I assumed they were hanging the guys on the sign!!!!!
 
Up in Massachusetts & Rhode Island it has been a common decoration for Halloween but a white pillow case is used for the head and the idea is it's a depiction of hanging witches from Salem.
 
Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
It is a deep cultural meme. Look up the song "strange fruit." Only white folk you see hanged from a tree are horse thieves, but they get cut down by someone. The only bodies that get LEFT hanging are pirates and n-words. And we don't have pirates inland. (copied quote).

When I taught media production and history for 3 years at a mostly Black school in Orlando I emphasized Black film and performers (I am real good on that). Billie and the song were part of what I introduced. Students were impressed. Ran segments of Birth of a Nation also for them. Had no problems with same as I gave them the straight info on the times. And they somehow sensed my loathing of the bad guys.
 
paulhutch said:
Up in Massachusetts & Rhode Island it has been a common decoration for Halloween but a white pillow case is used for the head and the idea is it's a depiction of hanging witches from Salem.
Click to expand...

Would so prefer hanging the executioners and the accusers!!!!!!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
I have not seen any Halloween decorations this year over here (Midlands UK) featuring any hanging, and this had been a year where more people than I've ever seen have decorated their houses for Halloween.

I think hanging a skeleton would not raise an eyebrow, but hanging dummies, even dressed as pirates would be not so well received here - not because of lynching (which we didn't really have) or the tradition of hanging pirates in Execution Dock, but just because well-meaning people would probably report them to the police as possible bodies.

Of course, we will burn effigies of Guy Fawkes next Saturday, and some town bonfires will burn effigies of a hate figure du jour; they get the publicity but nobody really takes it seriously or as a threat to burn that particular person.
 
Argumemnon said:
Good example. I don't think Germany's laws against displaying the Swastika is doing anyone any good. It's creating a taboo that gives the symbol and the ideology that used in in the 30s and 40s way too much power.
Click to expand...

And it would make great Halloween decorations.
 
Actually you don't even have go to the trouble of constructing effigies. A simple noose even a poorly constructed one is sufficient to mark someone as at the very least a clueless boor. At least where I live.
 
I'm English. I'm so snowy blondy white as to be nearly pale blue.
It's racist. It looks like a lynching. That's the very first thing I thought of, and I don't have a great grounding in American history. It doesn't look like a Halloween display. Here in the UK it's mostly witches and black cats and spiders on webs anyway.
It wouldn't be pleasant or rational to my eyes if they were snowy white effigies with mermaid hairdos. It would still be a horrible display and totally unnecessary. As it is, the effigies look black and the look like they've been lynched. Bloody poor show.
Is Halloween really an opportunity to be as vile as possible in the states? Here it's for kids. I don't think hanging anything up in a tree here other than perhaps some rubber bats or a spider would really happen. Although I may be wrong
 
cullennz said:
It's Irish

Samhain
Click to expand...

Well first of all, Samhain has very little cultural penetration into bulk Americana either from the original Celtic pagan or modern neopagan directions.

And second, Samhain lacks any ritualistic representations or reenactments of murders, executions or sacrifices.

Samhain has Jack crap to do with how Americans think about hanged bodies and only marginally informs the semiotic lexicon of American Halloween.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom