2016 Presidential Debate III

dudalb said:
I think the "I will not accept the results of the election" is a disaster for Trump, and is the nail in the coffin for his Presedential run.
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He didn't actually say that. What Trump said is that he would decide at the time whether to accept the results or not. Presumably, such a decision would be based on whether he thought there was fraud.

But, despite the spin, Trump didn't say he wouldn't accept a loss. In fact, I think he said something about keeping us in suspense.
 
xjx388 said:
That's my point: there aren't medical reasons to abort a baby in the last trimester. In those cases, the baby would be delivered normally and every effort would be made to keep the baby alive.
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I'm not a doctor or any kind of expert. But can you be 100% sure that there is never a legitimate medical reason to abort a baby in the last trimester?

Then there is a question of what if it is discovered that the baby has some sort of very serious condition like missing the higher brain?

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/birthdefects/anencephaly.html

What is anencephaly?

Anencephaly is a serious birth defect in which a baby is born without parts of the brain and skull. It is a type of neural tube defect (NTD). As the neural tube forms and closes, it helps form the baby’s brain and skull (upper part of the neural tube), spinal cord, and back bones (lower part of the neural tube).

Anencephaly happens if the upper part of the neural tube does not close all the way. This often results in a baby being born without the front part of the brain (forebrain) and the thinking and coordinating part of the brain (cerebrum). The remaining parts of the brain are often not covered by bone or skin.

. . .
Diagnosis

Anencephaly can be diagnosed during pregnancy or after the baby is born.
. . .
After the Baby is Born

In some cases, anencephaly might not be diagnosed until after the baby is born. Anencephaly is immediately seen at birth.
Treatments

There is no known cure or standard treatment for anencephaly. Almost all babies born with anencephaly will die shortly after birth.
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Are we to tell a woman who discovers in the sixth or seventh month of her pregnancy that the fetus she is carrying has anencephaly that she must carry it to term?

This is why I think there should be room for exceptions.
 
Trump's free-form gibberish on the Heller decision provided an amusing moment:

Trump said:
Well, the D.C. vs. Heller decision was very strongly -- and she was extremely angry about it. I watched. I mean, she was very, very angry when upheld. And Justice Scalia was so involved. And it was a well-crafted decision. But Hillary was extremely upset, extremely angry. And people that believe in the Second Amendment and believe in it very strongly were very upset with what she had to say.
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debate transcript
 
marplots said:
He didn't actually say that. What Trump said is that he would decide at the time whether to accept the results or not. Presumably, such a decision would be based on whether he thought there was fraud.

But, despite the spin, Trump didn't say he wouldn't accept a loss. In fact, I think he said something about keeping us in suspense.
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Like that is any better.......
 
Donald is definitely going to say that the election was rigged when he loses. I would bet my house on it.
 
xjx388 said:
Abortion is not a treatment for preeclampsia. They might decide to deliver the baby early which certainly carries risks but this is not the same thing as abortion.
Performing a c section and removing the uterus is it the same thing as an abortion.
An ectopic pregnancy in the third trimester would be an extremely rare thing. If the pregnancy survived that long the baby may be viable.

Again, there is no medical situation in which you would have to kill a 32 week fetus in order to save the mother's life. You might make a decision to deliver the baby early but that is not the same thing as an abortion. As a society we have to draw the line somewhere and I think most of us would agree that 32 weeks is way beyond that line.
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I thought late term just referred to 3rd trimester, not 32 weeks. Anyway, this is off topic for this thread so I will just leave this here:

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/pregnancy-complications-that-result-in-late-term-abortions
 
dudalb said:
I disagree. I think his response to the "Will you accept the results of the election was so catastrophic to Donald that it wiped out whatever positive things he had going for him in the debate.
He had a decent..not great but decent first 50 minutes, then melted down in the last 40 Minutes.
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That still exceeded my expectations. My expectations were extremely low.

I do think his discussion of rigged elections, and refusing to say that he would accept the results, looked ridiculous.

He needed a win on the sort of scale on which the Cubs beat the Dodgers tonight*, but he didn't get it. He got a loss that was not as bad as it could have been.


*Couldn't help myself. For those who missed it, Cubs 10, Dodgers 2.
 
Puppycow said:
I'm not a doctor or any kind of expert. But can you be 100% sure that there is never a legitimate medical reason to abort a baby in the last trimester?

Then there is a question of what if it is discovered that the baby has some sort of very serious condition like missing the higher brain?

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/birthdefects/anencephaly.html



Are we to tell a woman who discovers in the sixth or seventh month of her pregnancy that the fetus she is carrying has anencephaly that she must carry it to term?

This is why I think there should be room for exceptions.
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Risk to the mother also seems to be ignored by pro-life people as well. Not a big surprise since women are"lesser" to Conservatives.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
His Fox buddy, Sean Hannity interviewed Don T Jr. I only got to this part and I couldn't stomach it:

Hannity: So Frank Luntz gave the first debate to Clinton, but the second two to Trump."
Jr: "Yes"
Hannity: "Using the focus groups..."

What a bunch of BS. Luntz may very well have a hand picked focus group that found Trump the winner of the last two debates. This stuff just feeds Trump's ego.
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Luntz and his famed "independent voters".

Hannity and his echo chamber are a joy. He's commented late in the show that "everyone is saying he did terrific". Everybody? Here's the people he's had on:
Don Jr.
Giuliani
Ingraham
Huckabee
Eric
Eric's wife
Steve Hilton(? Brexit)
Sheriff Clarke
Herman Cain

This impartial panel thinks Trump won the debate and will sweep to Brexit-style victory. The abortion thing has got them all convinced that they're going to sweep to an evangelical landslide... like the evangelical landslide that swept Santorum to the nomination in '12 and swept Cruz past Trump this year?

Morons. (Did I just hear Cain call her "Killary".)
 
marplots said:
He didn't actually say that. What Trump said is that he would decide at the time whether to accept the results or not. Presumably, such a decision would be based on whether he thought there was fraud.

But, despite the spin, Trump didn't say he wouldn't accept a loss. In fact, I think he said something about keeping us in suspense.
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As you would expect of a qualified Reality Show host.
 
Ron_Tomkins said:
Ok something weird happened: As the debate finished, I was watching Hillary and Trump shaking hands in the background while the commentators were talking, when I noticed that the video window had a pause button. So I hit it, and the video was paused. I hit play and the video was resumed exactly where I left it (Which can't, by definition, happen in a live feed)

This was the same live debate I had been watching. Like I said, the candidates were just shaking the hands of the audience members. So what the hell???

This was at cnn.com
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Didn't you hear. The whole election is rigged.
 
xjx388 said:
I get closer every day to considering a vote for Clinton and then I hear her say something completely insane: That there are good medical reasons for ending the life of a baby in the last stages of pregnancy. I would love to hear some of these stories she knows about where a baby had to be killed in order to save the life of the mother. Makes no medical sense.
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It doesn't happen. Just as Trump doesn't know how the government works, he doesn't know anything about abortion either. And pro-life people imagine doctors killing live viable infants and that's not what happens.

If the mother or baby are in trouble in the 7th month or later the mother will get a c-section. Late term abortions are rarely done and then it's usually because the fetus is not viable, like in this example.
 
Foolmewunz said:
As you would expect of a qualified Reality Show host.
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Yep. I also expect he'll tweet something tomorrow that "explains" his comment. This is just par for the course. Say something outrageous; let the media/public react; redirect with a tweet.

It's how he's been manipulating things so far, and we keep falling for it. Why change now?
 
xjx388 said:
That's my point: there aren't medical reasons to abort a baby in the last trimester. In those cases, the baby would be delivered normally and every effort would be made to keep the baby alive.
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Unless it is the baby that is not viable. Pro-choice fanatics think a mother should carry a fetus to term that has no chance whatsoever to survive. They have no clue what a pregnant woman goes through knowing you have a fetus that will not survive. See my post upthread.
 
xjx388 said:
I get closer every day to considering a vote for Clinton and then I hear her say something completely insane: That there are good medical reasons for ending the life of a baby in the last stages of pregnancy. I would love to hear some of these stories she knows about where a baby had to be killed in order to save the life of the mother. Makes no medical sense.
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I have one. A former co-worker was going into her 9th month when somehow something went wrong with the fetus. What had been a totally normal pregnancy caused her to get kidney damage. As she was Catholic, she refused an abortion but they had to use Pitocin to make her expel the fetus. The baby was born stillborn, later discovered to have heart and lung issues. Had she not been Catholic, they would have indeed ended the life of the baby in the 9th month.

See, the problem with absolutes is there are always exceptions. I doubt Hillary knew Vanessa, but I know Vanessa isn't the only woman who went through something like that.
 
Two more thoughts that popped into my head.

Will the right wingers complain about moderator bias this time? I don't think they've got much of a case.



I also note that Donald talked about his famous interactions with women over the years, insisting that his nine accusers were publicity seeking liars that he didn't even know.

The mind boggles at the brazenness of the denial, but watching it, the best part for me was that if there were nine of them to come forward already, there must be quite a few more that could be waiting in the wings, and at least a few of them must have been really ticked off by him yet again denying he did anything, and then insulting his accusers yet again. Will there be another week of "He did it to me, too?"


One thing that might be funny to see is someone come forward and say, "He made an unwanted advance on me. He touched me without permission, but I kind of liked it, and we ended up having some really great sex." At some point, I'm sure it happened. I'd like to see it just because I wonder if his ego could let him insist that he never made the advance if it also didn't allow him to brag about the great looking girl he bedded.
 
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