Trump runs for POTUS / Trumped Up! Part V

[Tony Stark]

Worse than that. Trump has been confronted with the GW/China/hoax quote more than once. He damn well knows he wrote those words. Either that or he's mentally incompetent -- like actually.

Bear in mind there are many instances of Trump calling GW a hoax -- it's a constant theme.

But you see it is OK for him to lie about it because he is a Republican.

 

[NoahFence]

Give me three examples of his lies.

The funny thing is the implication that this massive list of lies from Trump even matters to his supporters. Nobody, NOBODY denies that he lies through his teeth.

A person would have to be in a coma, without a pulse, to not see that he lies with virtually every breath.

 

[acbytesla]

Back to this discussion of lies, it's one thing to make up things about which you are ignorant, or likely ignorant. In that respect, you could argue that his assertion (or joke if you will) that global warming is a hoax created by the Chinese is not a lie.

But we are talking about his contradictions in the debate. "He thinks that global warming is a hoax created by the Chinese." He didn't respond with "I don't remember," it was "I didn't say that!"

Yes, he did say that, and denying it is a lie, regardless of whether he "forgot" he said it or not. Because HE said it, and therefore contradicts himself.

The correct answer, of course, is "I don't remember" saying it, and that could be true. But when you pretend to know the answer, when you don't know the answer? That's lying.

BTW, take a look at the "fact-checking" that has been done. Every single time Donald said, "I didn't do that" and "That's wrong", he was wrong. I've seen criticisms of Clinton that said she distorted information, but every time she said something and he contradicted her, she was right.

And yet, this debate is being graded on who "acted Presidential" and "demeanor." Apparently, getting all your information wrong and flat out lying about what you have said in the past*** is not part of your demeanor?

Every time he claimed she was wrong, she was right. He never caught her on a mis-statement.

***Including pretending that you know the answer when you don't

I feel this suggestion that Trump doesn't lie a lot but BSs is dishonest and somehow lessens the disgusting nature of his behavior. Trump is always selling and will say anything that he thinks will get you to buy. As another salesman Trump makes me cringe. He's what we all hate in Salespeople.

Everybody occasionally says things we believe to be true that aren't. That is not a lie. But most of us care about being truthful. Trump simply doesn't care. Trump has a RECKLESS DISREGARD for the truth. He's only lucky if the words that emanate from his mouth happen to be true. Dishonesty is Trump's default position.

 

[pgwenthold]

The funny thing is the implication that this massive list of lies from Trump even matters to his supporters. Nobody, NOBODY denies that he lies through his teeth.

A person would have to be in a coma, without a pulse, to not see that he lies with virtually every breath.

The NYTimes had a list of 31 lies...from last week alone.

Many of them repeated at the debate.

 

[sunmaster14]

The NYTimes had a list of 31 lies...from last week alone.

Many of them repeated at the debate.

Pick three. Most of the so-called lies are not lies. I want to see if you can tell the difference.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Give me three examples of his lies.

- China / Climate change is a hoax

- Clinton has fighting ISIS her entire adult life

- Saying he did not support the Iraq war

- saying he did not support the intervention in Libya

- saying that murder rates in NY are up (but maybe he just didn't listen)

- claiming he never said that pregnancy is an inconvenience or employers

- claiming that Ford is moving jobs to Mexico:it's building a plant there but does not plan to downsize anyone in the US


not all his lies, but it's a start.

 

[Tony Stark]

The NYTimes had a list of 31 lies...from last week alone.

Many of them repeated at the debate.

Politico counted 87 over five days.

We subjected every statement made by both the Republican and Democratic candidates — in speeches, in interviews and on Twitter — to our magazine’s rigorous fact-checking process. The conclusion is inescapable: Trump’s mishandling of facts and propensity for exaggeration so greatly exceed Clinton’s as to make the comparison almost ludicrous.

Though few statements match the audacity of his statement about his role in questioning Obama’s citizenship, Trump has built a cottage industry around stretching the truth. According to POLITICO’s five-day analysis, Trump averaged about one falsehood every three minutes and 15 seconds over nearly five hours of remarks.

In raw numbers, that’s 87 erroneous statements in five days.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...ld-trump-fact-check-week-214287#ixzz4LZ61iy8m

But lying is OK if you're a Republican.

 

[varwoche]

Give me three examples of his lies.

One at a time...

I spoke directly with President Putin, who could not have been nicer

I have nothing to do with Putin. I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about him

Mind you, I can't say which one is the lie.

 

[Tony Stark]

Pick three. Most of the so-called lies are not lies. I want to see if you can tell the difference.

From the debate alone he claimed that he didn't say that climate change was a Chinese hoax, he claimed that he never supported the Iraq war, and he claimed that Hillary started birtherism.

 

[Tony Stark]

One at a time...





Mind you, I can't say which one is the lie.

Maybe Donald met Putin and then forgot about it.

j/k

 

[sunmaster14]

- China / Climate change is a hoax

Technically, he didn't say it. He tweeted it. I realize that's Clintonesque parsing of the English language, but it works for both of them. Also, he claims he was joking. And, IIRC, Hillary claimed that Trump believes it is a hoax. Trump did not say that he believed it was. Also, perhaps a bit of hyper-technical parsing, but actually defensible.

- Clinton has fighting ISIS her entire adult life

That's hardly a lie. It was a misstatement. Is he lying also if he mispronounces somebody's name? His point, which virtually everybody understood, was that Hillary has been in positions of governmental power for decades, so her claim that she has some new ideas or wants to change things is disingenuous. Otherwise, she would have already implemented those changes.

- Saying he did not support the Iraq war

It's not a particularly meaningful claim, but no doubt he had an opinion on the Iraq War shortly before it began, while it was going on, and also after the initial phase was over. What he said on Howard Stern many months before was not necessarily is final opinion on the subject. People change their minds, and there was certainly plenty of time to do it.

- saying he did not support the intervention in Libya

Once again, it's probably a silly, unproven claim, but it's equally difficult to prove that he's lying. Just because he may have voiced support at one particular point in time, it doesn't mean that he didn't change his mind later (whether before or after the intervention started).

- saying that murder rates in NY are up (but maybe he just didn't listen)

The number of murders in New York City for 2015 was higher than for 2014. Nationally, the number of murders was much higher in 2015 than 2014.

- claiming he never said that pregnancy is an inconvenience or employers

Probably a lie, although I can see if his statement was stripped out of context, he might have thought it was reasonable to claim he never said it since context could reasonably be seen to be part of the statement.

- claiming that Ford is moving jobs to Mexico:it's building a plant there but does not plan to downsize anyone in the US

If Ford has the choice between building a new plant in Mexico and in the US, and it chooses Mexico, then that's clearly moving jobs to Mexico from the US. Perhaps not existing jobs, but potential future jobs, which I think makes the statement sufficiently true. I bet that existing jobs get moved too, since although there probably won't be layoffs, there will probably be downsizing in the US through attrition. That is, people who resign or retire will probably be less likely to be replaced. And the jobs (not necessarily Ford's employees) existing to support that infrastructure will also disappear over time.

not all his lies, but it's a start.

And a pretty big failure. Obviously, you can't really tell the difference between a lie and conventional political rhetoric.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

And a pretty big failure. Obviously, you can't really tell the difference between a lie and conventional political rhetoric.

By your own standards, Clinton has never told a lie.

 

[sunmaster14]

One at a time...





Mind you, I can't say which one is the lie.

Technically, I was asking for his lies from the debate. Presumably one of his Putin statements is false, although whether it is due to lying or confabulation, I can't say. It's very, very easy to confabulate that you met someone whom you didn't meet, but whom you think about or may have talked to over the phone or through a video chat. I do it all the time.

 

[Belz...]

Didn't you participate in the thread where Harry G. Frankfurt's On BS was discussed?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

The point is that the debate has passed yet polls show Trump increasingly closer to Clinton.

I don't think that this was your point. Your point seems to be that Trump doesn't lie because he's in character, which considering the definition of "lie", seems like nonsense.

 

[Belz...]

(1) Trump's lies seem to be designed for rhetorical effect.

You're suggesting that his base knows that they're lies but... what? They're voting for him based on what, if they think he lies as he does?

 

[Tony Stark]

Technically, I was asking for his lies from the debate. Presumably one of his Putin statements is false, although whether it is due to lying or confabulation, I can't say. It's very, very easy to confabulate that you met someone whom you didn't meet, but whom you think about or may have talked to over the phone or through a video chat. I do it all the time.

Donald said both that he spoke to Putin and never spoke to Putin. One of those is a lie. Almost certainly the first one. Unless you think that he somehow convinced himself that he spoke to Putin, and then realized he didn't. Or if he really did, that he forgot speaking to his hero.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Technically, he didn't say it. He tweeted it. I realize that's Clintonesque parsing of the English language, but it works for both of them. Also, he claims he was joking. And, IIRC, Hillary claimed that Trump believes it is a hoax. Trump did not say that he believed it was. Also, perhaps a bit of hyper-technical parsing, but actually defensible.

No.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...nald-trump-did-call-climate-change-chinese-h/

Trump also called climate change a "hoax" on the Jan. 6, 2014, edition of Fox & Friends.

In addition, he said on the Sept. 24, 2015, edition of CNN’s New Day, "I don’t believe in climate change."

And on Jan. 18, 2016, Trump said that climate change "is done for the benefit of China, because China does not do anything to help climate change."

He tweeted it, he said it, he meant it, and its not defensible. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

 

[Bob001]

.....
It's not a particularly meaningful claim, but no doubt he had an opinion on the Iraq War shortly before it began, while it was going on, and also after the initial phase was over. What he said on Howard Stern many months before was not necessarily is final opinion on the subject. People change their minds, and there was certainly plenty of time to do it.
....

Sure. But that's not what Trump has said. It reveals plenty about his character and judgment that he insists he "never" supported the Iraq war, contradicting actual evidence. It would have been easy and sensible for him to say something like "When the issue first came up, I stood firmly behind our President and our troops, like most Americans. But as I later studied the matter, I came to the conclusion that it would be a mistake to invade a foreign country under the circumstances we faced at that time." But Trump needs to insist "I was always right!" It's also significant that Trump, who was certainly a prominent public figure at the time, hasn't produced any evidence that he ever spoke against the war before it began.

A lot of people supported the Iraq War because they believed what the President told us. But the issue here is Trump's personality and character.

 

[pgwenthold]

No.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...nald-trump-did-call-climate-change-chinese-h/

Trump also called climate change a "hoax" on the Jan. 6, 2014, edition of Fox & Friends.

In addition, he said on the Sept. 24, 2015, edition of CNN’s New Day, "I don’t believe in climate change."

And on Jan. 18, 2016, Trump said that climate change "is done for the benefit of China, because China does not do anything to help climate change."

He tweeted it, he said it, he meant it, and its not defensible. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

BOOM! Headshot!

 

[sunmaster14]

No.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...nald-trump-did-call-climate-change-chinese-h/

Trump also called climate change a "hoax" on the Jan. 6, 2014, edition of Fox & Friends.

In addition, he said on the Sept. 24, 2015, edition of CNN’s New Day, "I don’t believe in climate change."

And on Jan. 18, 2016, Trump said that climate change "is done for the benefit of China, because China does not do anything to help climate change."

He tweeted it, he said it, he meant it, and its not defensible. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

He didn't say it. You're absolutely wrong. What he said on Fox & Friends was completely different from what Hillary claimed. What he said actually on F&F is what I believe, to tell you the truth.