Another unarmed black man shot

NoahFence said:
We know the police themselves have said he was unarmed, and there were no weapons in the car. So yes, we have those facts. And they're the ONLY facts that are required when asking whether or not this man should have been shot and killed.
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Well...and he was Black - that's a fact that the Cops seem to consider important when they decide to shoot.
 
According to the Guardian's count of killings by US police, Crutcher is the 33rd black person to be killed this year while unarmed (out of 122 unarmed people killed total). 65 white people have been killed while unarmed.

Out of the 583 armed people killed by police, 138 have been black and 285 white. For people killed who were armed with a firearm, out of 365 people, 103 have been black and 173 white.

At first glance, then, it appears that the rate of killings of unarmed blacks by police is about what you would expect given the rate of killings of unarmed whites and the ratio of killings of armed blacks to armed whites (and maybe even less than you would expect given the rates for killing of those armed with a firearm, i.e. the most dangerous of weapons).

What does strike me as being out of line is the level of publicity attached to the killing of an unarmed black person by police to the killing of an unarmed white person by police. It's interesting how availability bias becomes a self-perpetuating process.
 
NoahFence said:
We know the police themselves have said he was unarmed, and there were no weapons in the car.

So yes, we have those facts. And they're the ONLY facts that are required when asking whether or not this man should have been shot and killed.
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Those are not the only facts necessary if you are truly interested in justice.
Those are facts that were ascertained after the shooting. We don't know if they believed or had reason to believe he was armed. We don't know what it may have appeared he was doing by the car.
Hopefully there will be a full and impartial investigation and if necessary a trial.
 
sunmaster14 said:
What does strike me as being out of line is the level of publicity attached to the killing of an unarmed black person by police to the killing of an unarmed white person by police. It's interesting how availability bias becomes a self-perpetuating process.
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As a minority, blacks are closer to extinction than white people. It's like how everyone gets upset when you kill a rhino but no one cares much about sparrows. Native Americans said it best, way back in the mid-1800s, "You sure gotta kill of lot of these palefaces to make any difference."

(Only, you know, they said that in Indian talk, not English.)
 
Jules Galen said:
Well...and he was Black - that's a fact that the Cops seem to consider important when they decide to shoot.
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Except for all of the cases where a white man was shot by the police. I would think that is almost never considered except in your mind.
 
thaiboxerken said:
She should be charged. There was no need for her to have the firearm brandished and no reason for her to have a finger on the trigger. This is, likely, a case of piss-poor training along with the fear of "the blacks."
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do you know what happened that caused all the police to be called for backup? Do you know what may have happened that caused her to have the gun drawn? I don't.
It may be a case of poor training or fear over even fear of the blacks as you put it. It may also be the case that he did or said things that justified a gun being out.
 
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eeyore1954 said:
To you know what happened that caused all the police to be called for backup? Do you know what may have happened that caused her to have the gun drawn? I don't.
It may be a case of poor training or fear over even fear of the blacks as you put it. It may also be the case that he did or said things that justified a gun being out.
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I think you are trying too hard to make excuses for the inexcusable. It is unbecoming.
 
Camillus said:
Negligent discharge. No such thing as an accidental discharge if you're holding a functional firearm.
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I'm just saying, her defense is going to be, that she accidentally pulled the trigger.

UNLESS:

We also don't know what was going on, was he yelling "I'm going to get my gun out of my car" as he was walking toward the car?

Remember that actually having a gun, does not matter, what will matter is if the officer THOUGHT he had a gun. Did he reach into the car? Was he threatening to grab a gun? I think there is a lot more that we need to know before calling her a murderer.
 
Jules Galen said:
I think you are trying too hard to make excuses for the inexcusable. It is unbecoming.
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I think it is becoming to wait for the facts before making any condemning judgments. I think it's unbecoming to do otherwise. There is not enough information to call it inexcusable.
 
Roboramma said:
What constitutes a "lawful order"? I think that's what the question comes down to.

(This is a bit of a derail but I find myself curious)
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I think it's quite relevant, actually. From the New York Times article linked in post #3 (my emboldening):

In an interview, Officer Shelby’s lawyer, Scott Wood, said the officer had thought that Mr. Crutcher had a weapon. Mr. Wood said Mr. Crutcher had acted erratically, refused to comply with several orders, tried to put his hand in his pocket and reached inside his car window before he was shot.
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It's quite possible that Shelby's defense may involve an argument that this was sufficient to establish a reasonable belief that Crutcher presented a lethal threat. The question of what orders a police officer should or should not expect to be followed without question would be relevant to any such argument.

Dave
 
eeyore1954 said:
Those are not the only facts necessary if you are truly interested in justice.
Those are facts that were ascertained after the shooting. We don't know if they believed or had reason to believe he was armed. We don't know what it may have appeared he was doing by the car.
Hopefully there will be a full and impartial investigation and if necessary a trial.
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I am sure we will keep looking until we find out why this was all his fault.
 
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