Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

lol a witness statement is the same as an all hands on deck middle of the night interrogation with manipulative stories about traumatic blackouts and slaps and threats every time a question is answered "wrongly." get real!

Why on earth were the police so willing to conduct an unrecorded undocumented illegal interrogation, that was obviously illegal even under Italian law, against a random American girl, when the only evidence they had up to this moment was unidentified male DNA from a rapekit, and an unidentified male hand and footprint? What made them so confident that pushing this clueless girl to the breaking point would crack the case?

On November 5th 2007, what overwhelming evidence made Amanda such a strong suspect that they were willing to do what they did in that interrogation room? IMV there's nothing except they were already convinced Patrick was the killer, and seeing her text with him that night only confirmed it.

The press conference after the interrogations leaves no ambiguity. The police tell us the case is closed, that the search for the killers is over, and the only phase left is compiling the evidence and bringing them to court. All before they've even compared Patrick's DNA against the rapekit.

There just isn't a lot of mystery with this case. It's so straight forward.

Amanda did not become a suspect until she maliciously named her kind, gentle boss, Patrick, and spitefully claimed she was scared of him, to manipulate the police.

 

[Vixen]

Oh, good lord. Could it have anything to do with
1) Laura and Filomena having lawyers present during all their interviews?
2) the police never suspecting any of the British girls from the get go as they have admitted they suspected Amanda immediately?
3) the others not being screamed at, told they were liars, slapped, told they had "amnesia", told they had evidence against them, etc?

Nah, couldn't be for any those reasons.

As for who informed the police it was him in the first place, the text message they saw identified the caller as "Patrick". Patrick who they ask? Lumumba. Oh, my, an African name! A "black hair" was found in Meredith's hand! Let's play connect the dots.

If the 'peasant' Italian girls knew to get lawyers, what was the problem for Raff and Amanda?

It is untrue the police 'suspected Amanda immediately'; they suspected a whole range of people. On the night Amanda made her evil accusation of rape and murder against Patrick, as of that point, Raff was far more of a suspect to them. So much for the ridiculous PR lie that Mignini had some misogynist agenda against the American girl.

It was a long fair hair photographed in Mez' hand. There was also one across her bag, and another down below.

 

[Vixen]

Rare common ground. There is a tendency among Italian judges to be swayed somewhat but what judicial "party" they align themselves with. Judge Hellmann also spoke about this when his acquittals were annulled. Regardless of which "side" you align yourself with, the one commonality is that there is this sort of stratification among judges in Italy.


This is hogwash on both counts you claim. If it were "clear" you'd provide a cite to sustain the clarity. Otherwise it remains a common guilter factid that is pulled out of thin air when the facts don't line up.

No it wasn't the judge in question was interviewed some time later who said he wanted a sideways transfer to youth court. It had nothing to do with the Machiavellian conspiracy which was claimed yeas ago in this very thread on JREF.

This case is closed. No less than the Kercher lawyer, Maresca, said as much after March 27, 2015. Andrea Vogt - no friend to innocence herself, said so when a private citizen tried to take a case of judicial corruption about the March 27 exonerations into a Florence court.

He was laughed out of court. Vogt said he belonged to a group of arm-chair detectives who continue to argue for guilt of the exonerated, and corruption in the judiciary - with the only real effect of extending the pain of the Kerchers.

It's not closed by a long chalk. Or even a short one. Italy has filed a response to the ECHR. Rudy has applied for a review with Florence court. Raff is demanding €516K for the police daring to find his near perfect DNA on the bra clasp.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen praises Nencini but conveniently forgets that Nencini lied in his report as detailed below :-

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=3011

Vixen constantly attacks Amanda for lying but defends a judge who wrote a motivation report with lies. Could Vixen explain why Nencini had to resort to lying in his report if the case against Amanda and Raffaele was such a slam dunk?

You should have turned up at the trial to put forward your submissions. I daresay the time of 21:20 or 21:26 is not material in the grand scheme of things.

Thank you for your amusing suggestion, 'Nencini is a liar'.

 

[bagels]

Amanda did not become a suspect until she maliciously named her kind, gentle boss, Patrick, and spitefully claimed she was scared of him, to manipulate the police.

Yeah well, that was by far not even Amanda's greatest manipulative accomplishment, which was somehow getting Mignini to silence her accomplice Rudy Guede, who otherwise would have surely given damning testimony against the students and no amount of mafia judges would have saved her. Phew

 

[Vixen]

Yeah well, that was by far not even Amanda's greatest manipulative accomplishment, which was somehow getting Mignini to silence her accomplice Rudy Guede, who otherwise would have surely given damning testimony against the students and no amount of mafia judges would have saved her. Phew

That is an outrageous suggestion. You have presented no evidence that Mignini tampered with a witness or that he gave any of the defendants any legal advice whatsoever. I am sure we would have heard about if he had.

Please think before you make such wild damaging claims.

 

[NotEvenWrong]

Yeah well, that was by far not even Amanda's greatest manipulative accomplishment, which was somehow getting Mignini to silence her accomplice Rudy Guede, who otherwise would have surely given damning testimony against the students and no amount of mafia judges would have saved her. Phew

It is a shame Amanda managed to manipulate Mignini and every single independent forensic scientist, everywhere, the Italian Supreme Court, Hellman, etc. etc. etc. Otherwise there may be a single shred of actual scientific evidence she was in the cottage at the time of the murder, and Vixen would have more than rumor and innuendo that has been refuted 100x over. If only.

 

[bagels]

That is an outrageous suggestion. You have presented no evidence that Mignini tampered with a witness or that he gave any of the defendants any legal advice whatsoever. I am sure we would have heard about if he had.

Please think before you make such wild damaging claims.

I am not suggesting Mignini tampered with a witness, in fact I am suggesting the exact opposite, that he made sure not to call a particular witness to testify - who just happened to be the only witness known for a fact to have witnessed the murder

 

[Vixen]

It is a shame Amanda managed to manipulate Mignini and every single independent forensic scientist, everywhere, the Italian Supreme Court, Hellman, etc. etc. etc. Otherwise there may be a single shred of actual scientific evidence she was in the cottage at the time of the murder, and Vixen would have more than rumor and innuendo that has been refuted 100x over. If only.

Amanda didn't manipulate Mignini for one minute. Whilst she might be used to twisting her Mom and Pop around her finger and have the wimpy creeps Rudy and Raff sniffing at her hem, Mignini will have seen hundreds of her type before.

 

[Vixen]

I am not suggesting Mignini tampered with a witness, in fact I am suggesting the exact opposite, that he made sure not to call a particular witness to testify - who just happened to be the only witness known for a fact to have witnessed the murder

Oh please. Do check your facts.

 

[bagels]

Oh please. Do check your facts.

Oh? Did Guede testify in a secret trial as a witness? Sorry, I guess I missed that!

You just can't worm your way through this one Vixen I'm afraid...it's simply a fact that what should have been a star witness, the only witness to the murder, was silenced throughout the entire trial process. They had the guy who was right there when Amanda plunged her giant buster sword from final fantasy 7 she carries to class for self defense into Meredith's neck. He was there! He's never even denied it! And when it comes time to bring witnesses to trial who do we get? A heroin bum who told police he saw nothing but maybe I was just confused from all the junk when I said that I actually saw the exact two defendants you're asking about...which night was it?

Haha, there's no getting around this one

 

[Vixen]

Oh? Did Guede testify in a secret trial as a witness? Sorry, I guess I missed that!

You just can't worm your way through this one Vixen I'm afraid...it's simply a fact that what should have been a star witness, the only witness to the murder, was silenced throughout the entire trial process. They had the guy who was right there when Amanda plunged her giant buster sword from final fantasy 7 she carries to class for self defense into Meredith's neck. He was there! He's never even denied it! And when it comes time to bring witnesses to trial who do we get? A heroin bum who told police he saw nothing but maybe I was just confused from all the junk when I said that I actually saw the exact two defendants you're asking about...which night was it?

Haha, there's no getting around this one

By all accounts, Curatalo was a refined character, who happened to be an Anarchist-Christian (no doubt, an oxymoron). I believe him. A witness is a witness. He was upheld by Massei as a credible one. The kiosk owner confirmed seeing Curatalo where he said he was that night.

Never underestimate the bum sitting on the bench watching the world go by.

So how come it's OK for Raff to refuse to testify, but when Rudy does it, it is laden with conspiracy theory meaning.

 

[NotEvenWrong]

By all accounts, Curatalo was a refined character, who happened to be an Anarchist-Christian (no doubt, an oxymoron). I believe him. A witness is a witness. He was upheld by Massei as a credible one. The kiosk owner confirmed seeing Curatalo where he said he was that night.

Never underestimate the bum sitting on the bench watching the world go by.

So how come it's OK for Raff to refuse to testify, but when Rudy does it, it is laden with conspiracy theory meaning.

Probably because Rudy admits he was there so it makes no sense for him not to testify in the trial where the prosecution is claiming two other people were there. Unless maybe Mignini didn't want him cross-examined. HMMMM.

Raff, on the other hand, never said he was there, there was no evidence he was there, he wasn't there, and he didn't write a letter saying he was there while claiming Rudy was there that was read during Rudy's trial while simultaneously refusing to be cross examined.

I know these differences are all very confusing for you because you are blind with rage that everyone knows Amanda is innocent now, but there you have it. You're welcome.

 

[NotEvenWrong]

By all accounts, Curatalo was a refined character, who happened to be an Anarchist-Christian (no doubt, an oxymoron). I believe him. A witness is a witness. He was upheld by Massei as a credible one. The kiosk owner confirmed seeing Curatalo where he said he was that night.

Never underestimate the bum sitting on the bench watching the world go by.

So how come it's OK for Raff to refuse to testify, but when Rudy does it, it is laden with conspiracy theory meaning.

That heroin habit was just a hobby and a minor inconvenience. Thankfully we have heroin junkies to refute those paid shill forensic scientists, who we all know were paid off by the Illuminati. Tabloid headlines and heroin junkies. Solid case.

 

[Vixen]

That heroin habit was just a hobby and a minor inconvenience. Thankfully we have heroin junkies to refute those paid shill forensic scientists, who we all know were paid off by the Illuminati. Tabloid headlines and heroin junkies. Solid case.

Think about it. Who else is going to be sitting on a bench on a cold November night?

 

[NotEvenWrong]

Think about it. Who else is going to be sitting on a bench on a cold November night?

Not having a better option as a witness because you have zero evidence otherwise is not a good reason to accept a heroin junkie as a reliable witness, Vixen.

 

[Welshman]

If the testimony of Curalto is to be believed he has Amanda and Raffaele away from the cottage at the time of the murder and provides Amanda and Raffaele with an alibi which undermines the prosecution's case. Being so desperate that the prosecution have to resort using evidence which damages their case is odd behaviour if the prosecution had a mountain of solid evidence and a slam dunk case as Vixen constantly claims.

 

[Stacyhs]

Oh, good lord. Could it have anything to do with
1) Laura and Filomena having lawyers present during all their interviews?
2) the police never suspecting any of the British girls from the get go as they have admitted they suspected Amanda immediately?
3) the others not being screamed at, told they were liars, slapped, told they had "amnesia", told they had evidence against them, etc?

Nah, couldn't be for any those reasons.

As for who informed the police it was him in the first place, the text message they saw identified the caller as "Patrick". Patrick who they ask? Lumumba. Oh, my, an African name! A "black hair" was found in Meredith's hand! Let's play connect the dots.

If the 'peasant' Italian girls knew to get lawyers, what was the problem for Raff and Amanda?

It is untrue the police 'suspected Amanda immediately'; they suspected a whole range of people. On the night Amanda made her evil accusation of rape and murder against Patrick, as of that point, Raff was far more of a suspect to them. So much for the ridiculous PR lie that Mignini had some misogynist agenda against the American girl.

It was a long fair hair photographed in Mez' hand. There was also one across her bag, and another down below.

1). Filomena and Laura were not "peasant" girls, as you well know. They were interns in a law office, studying to become lawyers themselves. They knew they needed lawyers even though they were innocent and had quick and easy contacts to lawyers due to their work.

2) It most certainly is true they suspected Amanda and Raff from day one. From the new Netflix docu's interview with Mignini:

Mignini told the documentary when he looked at the crime scene, he began to speculate what happened to Meredith.

“Why was the girl covered with a blanket? A woman who has killed tends to cover the body of female victims, a man would never think to do this,” he postulates.

The thing he said stuck out most to him at the crime scene, was the smashed window.

“Nothing had been stolen and there was no evidence somebody climbed the wall (to get to the window).

“Immediately I could tell it was a staged break-in. It could have no other function than this. To throw off suspicion from someone who has a connection to the house.”

Mr Mignini began to suspect Amanda was guilty of the crime when he saw her cuddling her boyfriend outside the crime scene.

“They were comforting each other with an affection inappropriate for the moment,” he told the documentary.

Out of his own mouth. So much for the ridiculous lie that he didn't suspect Amanda from day one.

2) I was referring to the "negroid hair" that turned out to be a textile/wool thread. But the police didn't know that on Nov 5/6 because they didn't bother to wait for the forensic results. They thought it was a black man's hair.

 

[Stacyhs]

Amanda did not become a suspect until she maliciously named her kind, gentle boss, Patrick, and spitefully claimed she was scared of him, to manipulate the police.

The "kind, gentle boss" who lied about firing her and who lied about Amanda's behavior at work. He admitted he lied and his court testimony is vastly different from the scurrilous story he told to the DM.

Mignini admits himself that he suspected Amanda from day one in the Netflix docu interview and it was solidified on Nov 3 when she fell apart at the cottage after being taken back.
http://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...r/news-story/e2a439f33c056920a151d973325aef90

Out of his own mouth. How are you going to spin that one?

 

[Stacyhs]

You contradict yourself. On the one hand you claim Rudy's glass-breaking hammer proves he's a burglar and then you confirm the burglary at the house was performed with clumsy amateurish 4.4 kg boulder.

A boulder is classed as any rock with breadth, width or diagonal of 12". The rock qualifies at 11.78", at its widest point, bearing in mind, a sizeable chunk broke off during the impact with the inner shutter.

I a not sure why you keep talking about the evidence. It was settled by all valid courts as a fake, staged, burglary, beyond any reasonable doubt.

As for the balcony door, please think about it rationally. A random burglar at 8:00 pm outside the cottage at ground level on a dark November night with little lighting has absolutely no way of knowing whether the door is penetrable or not.

You claimed Rudy was a career burglar, so a wooden door would not present a problem. If he was there to burgle, he would have brought along a crowbar, together with his other toolkit. From the driveway, there is no way he could know whether Filomena's window was locked by a latch from the inside before shinning up a 12'4" sheer wall. So once again, your argument is totally illogical.

Can you not do something about your 'quote' formats?

Marasca did not 'reject all the evidence' . The only evidence it rejected was the DNA evidence, which was only a small, corroborating, part of a whole pile of evidence.

1) I do not contradict myself as I explained why throwing a rock from the parking area made more sense than using the glass hammer that night. You just choose to ignore the logic of it. You also never answered the question as to why Guede would even carry a glass hammer in his backpack. What innocent reason would he have for that? And Rudy was an amateur thief.

2) The size of the rock included the broken chunk, so your point is irrelevant.
A boulder qualifies as such at just over 25 cm or 10 inches.
" boulder greater than (>) 25.6 cm" (Water Wells and Boreholes
By Bruce Misstear, David Banks, Lewis Clark, pg 262)

3) Please think about this logically regarding the balcony door. The balcony was easily scaled and it would take mere moments to discern that the heavy wooden doors were locked and to decide to look for an easier point of entry.

4) I never claimed Guede was a "career burglar". Stop putting words in my mouth. It became boorish a long time ago. He was an amateur thief.

5) A heavy wooden door would certainly present a difficulty. So much so that the owner of the cottage failed to provide a grated security door for it unlike the front doors upstairs and downstairs and the windows.

6) Perhaps a professional burglar would have brought a crowbar, but Guede was no professional. He was a two-bit amateur.

7) Guede did not need to "shinny up a 12' 4" wall to test whether the shutters were closed. All he had to do was stand on the grate below and reach up as shown in the video and the picture taken by the defense. So once again, your argument does not address the facts.

8) I'll format my response as I want. Can you not do something about putting words in my mouth that I never said?

9) I never said he rejected "all" the evidence. Once again, stop putting words in my mouth". However, he rejected more than the DNA evidence, contrary to your claims. He also rejected the idea she or Raff could have participated in the crime and left no evidence of themselves in the bedroom. He also rejected the idea there could have been a selective cleanup. He rejected more but why bother? It makes no difference to you.