Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Vixen said:
Really? Please show me where in their MR the Fifth Chamber Court give their reason as 'miscarriage of justice', or, 'new evidence'?

As both of the above are grounds for appeal then of course we have the 'usually' coming in.

In our case, we are not talking about 'public interest' or 'new evidence'; we are talking about old well-established evidence.
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Fabulous shifting of the goalposts there! Well done!

And you're still ignorant to the idea that there are rules around the testing and weighing of evidence in a court, and if those rules are not applied properly, then the "evidence" is not "well-established" at all. In fact, the "evidence" is worthless and must be wholly disregarded.

For example, in this case, the courts chose to resolve a dispute between the prosecution and the defence over the credibility and reliability of the DNA "evidence" by asking independent experts to make a report. That report comprehensively demolished the DNA evidence (and was in line with every single piece of worldwide opinion from the relevant science community). That should have been the end of it. For Nencini's court to ride a coach and horses through this to wrongly deem the DNA evidence credible/reliable was against the law. That's precisely why the SC had the mandate to rule accordingly, and to go on to rule that since every single significant piece of pro-guilt "evidence" was similarly massively tainted, there was zero point in even attempting to retry Knox or Sollecito.
 
Vixen said:
Do you read Italian? Then look it up on google for yourself.

I haven't got the patience to bicker with you. I doubt you have a genuine interest in this.
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Resorting to the "the best defense is a good offense" tactic is a clear indication that you simply cannot provide a quote from the Italian Penal Code supporting your claim. I thought not. :jaw-dropp
 
LondonJohn said:
Oh my word. You really believe the Walter Mitty fantasy about "dozens of lawyers"? You're not aware that the TJMK "machine" is nothing more than a creepy guy in a room in New York, a couple of other maladjusted people in Italy and UK, and whatever Mignini, Maresca and the Kercher family feel like providing to him?

(Hint: when Quennell uses the impressive-sounding pronoun "we", he rather tragically means "I"....)






Erm no. Dalla Vedova was obviously pointing out how unusual it was (and it WAS unusual) because this in itself signified just what a disgraceful mess the lower courts had made of it. The very fact that the SC took the strong (and rare) step of annulling without referral back to the appeal level is a damning indictment of the grotesque failings of the lower courts in this case.
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No, it shows how corrupt and incompetent they were when (a) they quoted Hellmann extensively, and Bruno's opening words were strikingly similar (something about Mez' death being 'the only certainty').

Massei is an incredibly sharp judge who bent over backwards to accommodate the kids (the daps, the time of calling the police, the ringleader, et cetera, et cetera).

Nencini was professional and businesslike in his handling of the case.

Both judges found it an inescapable conclusion the pair were guilty as charged. Unlike the netflix producers, they DID see and hear ALL of the evidence, not just Friend of Amanda sycophant, Stephen Robert Morse's innocence fraud spin.
 
LondonJohn said:
Fabulous shifting of the goalposts there! Well done!

And you're still ignorant to the idea that there are rules around the testing and weighing of evidence in a court, and if those rules are not applied properly, then the "evidence" is not "well-established" at all. In fact, the "evidence" is worthless and must be wholly disregarded.

For example, in this case, the courts chose to resolve a dispute between the prosecution and the defence over the credibility and reliability of the DNA "evidence" by asking independent experts to make a report. That report comprehensively demolished the DNA evidence (and was in line with every single piece of worldwide opinion from the relevant science community). That should have been the end of it. For Nencini's court to ride a coach and horses through this to wrongly deem the DNA evidence credible/reliable was against the law. That's precisely why the SC had the mandate to rule accordingly, and to go on to rule that since every single significant piece of pro-guilt "evidence" was similarly massively tainted, there was zero point in even attempting to retry Knox or Sollecito.
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They did not rule Nencini's court was against the law. Marasca is the one with the wheels coming off. Having decided BEFORE the supreme court hearing (cf Bruno comment about no certainty except Mez' death) they were going to acquit and giving Bongiorno two and a half days worth of court time to present her skeleton (more like a morbidly obese rotting malodorous cadaver) when all other parties were given twenty minutes, it is obvious they were simply cutting and pasting from Bongiorno's rambling script to try to justify it.

As bent as a nine €uro note.
 
Vixen said:
What? I wrote 'must' before I looked up wiki, to give you your quote, which is an English version and a paraphrase of the actual Penal Code.

Wow, you are skilled in taking things out of context.

As I said, I am not going to bicker, as you appear not to understand legal issues and your claim to know nothing of the Nick Pisa netflix claim is not believed. Sorry. I don't believe you.
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How did I take anything "out of context"? You wrote "must" and I found the actual quote on Wiki (as did LJ) which says "usually". That is nothing "out of context".

Are you a lawyer? Unless you are, then you are no expert on the law, much less Italian law. You simply look things up like everyone else who is not an expert in Italian law.

I don't care if you believe me or not. The fact is that you have not, cannot, and will not provide any quote from the docu stating that AK was "only convicted 'because of Nick Pisa' ". Your claim is not to be believed. Sorry.
 
Vixen said:
They did not rule Nencini's court was against the law. Marasca is the one with the wheels coming off. Having decided BEFORE the supreme court hearing (cf Bruno comment about no certainty except Mez' death) they were going to acquit and giving Bongiorno two and a half days worth of court time to present her skeleton (more like a morbidly obese rotting malodorous cadaver) when all other parties were given twenty minutes, it is obvious they were simply cutting and pasting from Bongiorno's rambling script to try to justify it.

As bent as a nine €uro note.
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Wow! Corrupt Supreme Court judges??!!! Sounds like you're saying the Italian criminal justice system is horrifically broken and has zero legitimacy :D
 
Stacyhs said:
How did I take anything "out of context"? You wrote "must" and I found the actual quote on Wiki (as did LJ) which says "usually". That is nothing "out of context".

Are you a lawyer? Unless you are, then you are no expert on the law, much less Italian law. You simply look things up like everyone else who is not an expert in Italian law.
I don't care if you believe me or not. The fact is that you have not, cannot, and will not provide any quote from the docu stating that AK was "only convicted 'because of Nick Pisa' ". Your claim is not to be believed. Sorry.
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I look forward to your review of the film in due course as to what you think the producers are arguing.

Assume makes an ASS out of U and me.
 
LondonJohn said:
Wow! Corrupt Supreme Court judges??!!! Sounds like you're saying the Italian criminal justice system is horrifically broken and has zero legitimacy :D
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It's well-known there are sectarian - if that's the right word - wars being waged between the Catholics, the Freemasons and the Mafia.

It is clear Bongiorno pointed the case to the politically appointed judges of the Fifth Chamber, who never deal with murder cases, and away from the expert First Chamber, who do. In addition, the first appeal - now expunged - was diverted away from a senior criminal judge to the business law judge Hellmann, who, as you saw, simply opened the cage door and let the birds fly away.
 
Vixen said:
It's well-known there are sectarian - if that's the right word - wars being waged between the Catholics, the Freemasons and the Mafia.

It is clear Bongiorno pointed the case to the politically appointed judges of the Fifth Chamber, who never deal with murder cases, and away from the expert First Chamber, who do. In addition, the first appeal - now expunged - was diverted away from a senior criminal judge to the business law judge Hellmann, who, as you saw, simply opened the cage door and let the birds fly away.
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Which chamber was Chieffi part of that ruled Quintavalle was reliable despite repeatedly lying because he saw blue eyes in court? That's a bad one imo.
 
Methos said:
...and the tweet from this person on twitter is worthy of being linked to from this forum, why? :confused:
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OK, here's a better source:

On the autosomal DNA test Stefanoni found the DNA on the bra matched Sollecito on 16 locus-points.[3] That is an exceptionally strong match. In the United Kingdom they only locus-points are used. The CODIS system in the United States maintains a database of only 13 markers and having 10 is considered a match for most purposes.[4]

A y-chromosome test was also performed. Since women don't have y-chromosome there is no reassortment of the y-chromosome during fertilization. The y-chromosome only changes through chance mutations during spermatogenesis. This causes complications for identification, since close male relatives all share the same Y chromosome. The bra clasp DNA was also a match for Sollecito's y-chromosome.[5] This confirms that the DNA belongs to a male Sollecito likely not more than two or three degrees of separation from Raffaele. The benefit of the y-chromosome test is that it removes Meredith's DNA from the interpretation and so we have only Sollecito's DNA. The autosomal profile is a perfect match to Sollecito but because the quantity of Meredith DNA is so much greater, it can create false peaks (known as "stutters") in the DNA profile, which are close to the height of Sollecito's profile. Having the additional y-chromosome test gives us a level of certainty through redundancy.
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http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/The_Bra_Clasp
 
Vixen said:
It's well-known there are sectarian - if that's the right word - wars being waged between the Catholics, the Freemasons and the Mafia.

It is clear Bongiorno pointed the case to the politically appointed judges of the Fifth Chamber, who never deal with murder cases, and away from the expert First Chamber, who do. In addition, the first appeal - now expunged - was diverted away from a senior criminal judge to the business law judge Hellmann, who, as you saw, simply opened the cage door and let the birds fly away.
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Just for the record:
Dott. Sergio Matteini Chiari's CV, and this one: «Processo Mez? Potevo farlo, ma non mi pento di aver scelto i Minori»...

Good N8...
 
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And by the way, it's not much of a better source in any case. You're aware that the website you're taking this from is a partisan pro-guilt site......?
 
Vixen said:
I look forward to your review of the film in due course as to what you think the producers are arguing.

Assume makes an ASS out of U and me.
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Once again, you fail to provide a SINGLE quote from the docu (or even a review of it) that states that AK was "only convicted 'because of Nick Pisa' ".

If you could, you would. You can't, you haven't. No need to assume why that is.
 
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