Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Bill Williams]

Seriously? You believe a person convicted of aggravated murder (murder with torture and sexual assault), and the conviction upheld on appeal, has been charged and convicted for no reason at all?

This is pretty much the opinion of the Italian Supreme Court. The ISC annulled the convictions because the evidence didn't support them. The ISC said the convicting judge erred in substituting opinion for logic, that there was no "connective tissue" to sustain the evidence as being incriminating.

You obviously disagree with that assessment - but that's why even in Italy now, it's a judicial truth that the lower court convictions were not based on the Legal assessment of evidence.

 

[Welshman]

Quennell, Vixen and other members of TJMK worship Mignini and think the sun shines out of his backside. On an internet forum I asked Ergon in view of how of he and members of the hate sites bang on about how wonderful Mignini is, would he be willing to have Mignini as a prosecutor if he was accused of a crime. Ergon and other PGP were not willing to answer this question. It is strange how members of the TJMK/PMF hate sites don't seem keen to have Mignini as a prosecutor if they were accused of a crime despite banging on about how great he is.

 

[bagels]

Seriously? You believe a person convicted of aggravated murder (murder with torture and sexual assault), and the conviction upheld on appeal, has been charged and convicted for no reason at all?

The conviction wasn't upheld on appeal, which is why Amanda has been living free in Seattle for the past five years, and we've been posting aimlessly for sport.

 

[Vixen]

This is pretty much the opinion of the Italian Supreme Court. The ISC annulled the convictions because the evidence didn't support them. The ISC said the convicting judge erred in substituting opinion for logic, that there was no "connective tissue" to sustain the evidence as being incriminating.

You obviously disagree with that assessment - but that's why even in Italy now, it's a judicial truth that the lower court convictions were not based on the Legal assessment of evidence.

Name one other murder case wherein the defendant was found guilty at the first and second instance court (trial and appeal+specified issues trial) and were acquitted without remission to the second instance court by the Supreme Court.

You can't name one because it is egregious and most irregular. In fact, the Supreme Court Fifth Chambers acted outside of its legal powers, as set out in the Italian Penal Code, which states it must be remitted back, as it is not within the Supreme Court's jurisdiction to try a case.

 

[Vixen]

Quennell, Vixen and other members of TJMK worship Mignini and think the sun shines out of his backside. On an internet forum I asked Ergon in view of how of he and members of the hate sites bang on about how wonderful Mignini is, would he be willing to have Mignini as a prosecutor if he was accused of a crime. Ergon and other PGP were not willing to answer this question. It is strange how members of the TJMK/PMF hate sites don't seem keen to have Mignini as a prosecutor if they were accused of a crime despite banging on about how great he is.

Your curious stilted logic causes me many a moment of amusement, but the short answer is (a) I do not hero-worship anybody, what a childish idea! and (b) frankly, Mignini could never prosecute me - ceteris parabus - as I have never committed a crime and therefore, there would never be any evidence or suspicion.

Thanks for the humorous nature of your post, though.

 

[Vixen]

The conviction wasn't upheld on appeal, which is why Amanda has been living free in Seattle for the past five years, and we've I've been posting aimlessly for sport.

FIFY

 

[Bill Williams]

Name one other murder case wherein the defendant was found guilty at the first and second instance court (trial and appeal+specified issues trial) and were acquitted without remission to the second instance court by the Supreme Court.

You can't name one because it is egregious and most irregular. In fact, the Supreme Court Fifth Chambers acted outside of its legal powers, as set out in the Italian Penal Code, which states it must be remitted back, as it is not within the Supreme Court's jurisdiction to try a case.

I don't need to. Subsequent courts are accepting what the ISC did as judicial fact. Everyone has moved on except you.

 

[LondonJohn]

"Quennell is bang on the money when it comes to the Kercher case. He has right on his side, always a good starting point."

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

A-HA-HA....

....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

 

[LondonJohn]

Your curious stilted logic causes me many a moment of amusement, but the short answer is (a) I do not hero-worship anybody, what a childish idea! and (b) frankly, Mignini could never prosecute me - ceteris parabus - as I have never committed a crime and therefore, there would never be any evidence or suspicion.

Thanks for the humorous nature of your post, though.

Maybe you'll stop wrongly accusing others of hero-worshipping Knox and Sollecito then.......?

And did you mean ceteris paribus? And why employ such a strange and inappropriate insertion of latin in the first place? Well, I think I know the answer to that actually. Shame that you spelt it wrong yet again though

 

[Bill Williams]

Maybe you'll stop wrongly accusing others of hero-worshipping Knox and Sollecito then.......?

And did you mean ceteris paribus? And why employ such a strange and inappropriate insertion of latin in the first place? Well, I think I know the answer to that actually. Shame that you spelt it wrong yet again though

Emptor caveat.

 

[Stacyhs]

Name one other murder case wherein the defendant was found guilty at the first and second instance court (trial and appeal+specified issues trial) and were acquitted without remission to the second instance court by the Supreme Court.

You can't name one because it is egregious and most irregular. In fact, the Supreme Court Fifth Chambers acted outside of its legal powers, as set out in the Italian Penal Code, which states it must be remitted back, as it is not within the Supreme Court's jurisdiction to try a case.

If this is stated in the IPC, then quote it here, with a link to the site.

I suspect this is just something you've read on a PGP site, sans quote and link, and you are just repeating as fact. If this were true, then there would have been legal steps taken to overturn Marasca-Bruno. There haven't been in a year and a half now.

Speaking of naming examples of court cases, can you name one case where an ISC has overturned a "judicial truth" previously confirmed by an ISC in the same case? I thought not.

 

[Stacyhs]

"The netflix movie claim that Amanda was only convicted 'because of Nick Pisa' is hilarious." (Vixen)

Please provide a quote from the documentary saying this. If you can.
What is "hilarious" is your making this claim in the first place.

 

[snoop_doxie]

"The netflix movie claim that Amanda was only convicted 'because of Nick Pisa' is hilarious." (Vixen)

Please provide a quote from the documentary saying this. If you can.
What is "hilarious" is your making this claim in the first place.

What is the name of this documentary?

 

[Bill Williams]

"Quennell is bang on the money when it comes to the Kercher case. He has right on his side, always a good starting point."

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

A-HA-HA....

....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Quennell was right about the 2013 ISC annulment of the Hellmann acquittals, and he was right about the Nencini conviction. Other that that he's made all sorts of predictions of legal doom be falling on all and sundry as per above.

He's the one who reacted to the 2011 collapse of the DNA findings by coining the term, "all the other evidence". He (and others) are still at it, even as the final court which ruled on this said that the remaining corpus of evidence did not demonstrate guilt.

Quennell and others are living a fantasy that factoid evidence, when amassed in large enough allegations, eventually amounts to something.

On another matter - The Daily Beast has a review out lauding the recent TIFF documentary. That's a long way from when Barbie Nadeau was the stringer for Tina Brown's rag on this.

Nadeau and The Daily Beast were once part of the problem that the documentary highlights. I've been around long enough to remember when AK was called by them, "Student Killer". Then after the 2011 acquittals they modified it to, "she's probably innocent but she knows something she's not telling us."

That was the most disingenuous comment of all!!!

Now The Daily Beast is writing as if they'd known that journalistic stupidity was a problem with this case all along!

The Daily Beast can change, why can't Quennell?

 

[Bill Williams]

What is the name of this documentary?

Amanda Knox, by directors Brian McGinn and Rod Blackhurst.

 

[Vixen]

If this is stated in the IPC, then quote it here, with a link to the site.

I suspect this is just something you've read on a PGP site, sans quote and link, and you are just repeating as fact. If this were true, then there would have been legal steps taken to overturn Marasca-Bruno. There haven't been in a year and a half now.

Speaking of naming examples of court cases, can you name one case where an ISC has overturned a "judicial truth" previously confirmed by an ISC in the same case? I thought not.

I suspect this will be way over your head, but here goes:

Cassazione[edit]
Both the prosecutor and the defendant can appeal to the top appeal court named Supreme Court of Cassation (Corte Suprema di Cassazione). The Court of Cassation only judges the correct application of the law in the lower courts and does not review the evidence. If the Court of Cassation does not uphold the sentence given by the first court, it usually orders a new trial in front of a different court, namely a Corte d'Assise d'Appello different from the previous one (in another district).

Please do note, we are talking of 'serious crimes' here, the assizes.

The Corte d'Assise (EN Court of Assizes) is an Italian court composed of two professional, stipendiary judges (giudici togati) and six lay judges (giudici popolari), who are selected from the people. The Corte d'Assise has jurisdiction to try all crimes carrying a maximum penalty of 24 years in prison or more. These are the most serious crimes, such as terrorism and murder. Also enslavement, killing a consenting human being, and helping a person to commit suicide are serious crimes that are tried by this court. Penalties imposed by the court can include life sentences (ergastolo). The Corte d'Assise does not preside over cases involving attempted murder.[1] The prosecution is conducted by the Public Prosecutor at the Courts of Assizes (Pubblico Ministero presso la Corte d'Assise). Decisions are made by giudici togati and giudici popolari together at a special meeting held behind closed doors, named Council Chamber (Camera di Consiglio), and the Corte d'Assise is required to publish written explanations of its decisions.

I am surprised you did not know this.

 

[Vixen]

"Quennell is bang on the money when it comes to the Kercher case. He has right on his side, always a good starting point."

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

A-HA-HA....

....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

There is nothing so phony than someone writing, ' AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

A-HA-HA....

....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

' when they are probably not 'laughing out loud' at all, and, I suspect, have a facial expression not dissimilar to a bear chewing a wasp.

 

[Vixen]

"The netflix movie claim that Amanda was only convicted 'because of Nick Pisa' is hilarious." (Vixen)

Please provide a quote from the documentary saying this. If you can.
What is "hilarious" is your making this claim in the first place.

Do read the reviews. There are plenty of them, all reading off the same Press Release from McGinn & Blackhurst (sounds like the names of a couple of supreme court judges), or perhaps a bluegrass singer-songwriter duo.


Have breakfast with me mamma
I hope they'll let us in
Got a leather jacket on
I know that it's a sin
Gunga Din ~ The Byrds

 

[LondonJohn]

There is nothing so phony than someone writing, ' AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

A-HA-HA....

....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

' when they are probably not 'laughing out loud' at all, and, I suspect, have a facial expression not dissimilar to a bear chewing a wasp.

No, I really was laughing heartily at the absurd notion of Quennell being "bang on the money" and having "right on his side". Neither could be further from the truth, after all.....

Still, you know what, ceteris parabus paribus, they don't say: emptor caveat.

 

[Methos]

Name one other murder case wherein the defendant was found guilty at the first and second instance court (trial and appeal+specified issues trial) and were acquitted without remission to the second instance court by the Supreme Court.

You can't name one because it is egregious and most irregular. In fact, the Supreme Court Fifth Chambers acted outside of its legal powers, as set out in the Italian Penal Code, which states it must be remitted back, as it is not within the Supreme Court's jurisdiction to try a case.

You might want to check Art. 620 para l of the Italian Codice procedura penale (not the codice penale):

Art. 620 - Annullamento senza rinvio
1. Oltre che nei casi particolarmente previsti dalla legge, la corte pronuncia sentenza di annullamento senza rinvio:
[...]
l) in ogni altro caso in cui la corte ritiene superfluo il rinvio ovvero può essa medesima procedere alla determinazione della pena o dare i provvedimenti necessari.

So much for "the Supreme Court Fifth Chambers acted outside of its legal powers"...

ETA: it looks like the above loophole was entered into the law to give any second Cassazione panel (like the fifth in this case) a legal foundation to annul verdicts by previous Cassazione panels, to counter the over (or better abuse by Chieffi in this case) of this other loophole that is Art. 606 para e:

Art. 606 - Casi di ricorso
1. Il ricorso per cassazione può essere proposto per i seguenti motivi:
[...]
e) mancanza, contraddittorietà o manifesta illogicità della motivazione, quando il vizio risulta dal testo del provvedimento impugnato ovvero da altri atti del processo specificamente indicati nei motivi di gravame.