Trump runs for POTUS / Trumped Up! Part V

[logger]

Is billionaire some kind of honorarium? Because it certainly doesn't refer to his financial status.

Trumps' biggest "success" was swimming to the right egg.

I don't think you realize it doesn't surprise people that leftist think Trump is somehow a total failure.

Now Clinton working a lifetime in government, walking out with hundreds of millions, now there is a success story.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Running the federal government is not like running a business, so his acumen (or lack of it) as a businessman is not terribly relevant. More important is the ability to make tough decisions and take risks, and then take the heat that follows.

I agree on the first sentence. On the second sentence: Do you have an example of Trump making a tough decision and taking the risks? Or even the heat that follows?

It seems like he mostly takes risks with other people's money, not his own. And when things go wrong he is quick to blame others. I can't recall him ever taking the blame for one of his many business failures. That seems to be the opposite of what you are looking for here.

 

[varwoche]

Knowing how corrupt Killery is, that is actually a very rational argument. Trump respects the military very much, Hillary has proven many times her co-president and her "loath the military"

Like when he denigrated McCain? Or when he denigrated Kahn? Or when he failed to deliver on donations to vets until he was busted by the press? Or when he said he knew more about ISIS than the generals?

Hook, line, and sinker.

 

[Segnosaur]

Not many need evidence that he is successful

We do... that's because we're skeptics and actually like evidence.

As for his "success"... remember, he is building his reputation (in part) on his abilities as a businessman. He may have had a successful TV show, but he's not saying "vote for me because I had good ratings on TV".

I'll point you to google so you don't waste my time, there is clearly nothing I can say to convince you the BILLIONAIRE has had success and obviously a lot of it.

Here's a suggestion... if you don't have any evidence that he's a billionaire perhaps you should stop claiming he's a billionaire.

Nobody knows how much he's worth. It could be as low as $150 million (which would be less than he had back in the 1980s.) Being worth less now than he was several decades ago is not what most people would consider as "successful".

 

[Segnosaur]

I don't think you realize it doesn't surprise people that leftist think Trump is somehow a total failure.

One of the biggest lies from Trump supporters is to claim all those opposed to Trump and who label him a failure are all "leftists".

I'm Canadian (so I can't vote in the American election), but I voted for the Canadian conservative party in the last election. And I think trump is a failure. You can find many people who are right wing, or wealthy who similarly think trump is a failure.

 

[Biscuit]

Not many need evidence that he is successful, I'll point you to google so you don't waste my time, there is clearly nothing I can say to convince you the BILLIONAIRE has had success and obviously a lot of it.

He inherited millions, received family loans for millions, and had his father vouch for more millions in bank loans. That's not success, that's lucky sperm club. His father was a successful business man, donald is huckster and a fraud.

donald trump was born on third base and is telling you he hit a triple and you are calling it a home run!

 

[acbytesla]

Not many need evidence that he is successful, I'll point you to google so you don't waste my time, there is clearly nothing I can say to convince you the BILLIONAIRE has had success and obviously a lot of it.

You DON'T know that. You're just taking him on his word. Yet his word sucks. He lies OVER and OVER and OVER OVER and OVER. I was taught fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. What's your excuse?

 

[Bob001]

Not many need evidence that he is successful, I'll point you to google so you don't waste my time, there is clearly nothing I can say to convince you the BILLIONAIRE has had success and obviously a lot of it.

Let me help you out:
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/08/12/donald-trumps-business-failures-election-2016-486091.html
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/donald-trumps-13-biggest-business-failures-20160314
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432826/donald-trump-scandals-business-failures-roundup
http://gawker.com/a-complete-list-of-donald-trump-s-business-disasters-1764151188

 

[sunmaster14]

I agree on the first sentence. On the second sentence: Do you have an example of Trump making a tough decision and taking the risks? Or even the heat that follows?

It seems like he mostly takes risks with other people's money, not his own. And when things go wrong he is quick to blame others. I can't recall him ever taking the blame for one of his many business failures. That seems to be the opposite of what you are looking for here.

Failing to take the blame with words is of little importance. Just like taking the blame with words is of little importance. Hillary took "responsibility" for Benghazi and her email server, and what does that even mean in practice? Nothing much.

I see evidence of Trump being able to acknowledge mistakes internally and making adjustments. He covers this up with bombast, but he has shown himself capable of making adjustments. He's not in the poorhouse after all, despite dozens of allegedly bad business decisions. He also seems to be making an adjustment in his campaign, which is very promising in my view. Verbally, he's a loose cannon, but words only go so far. And in the end, he's developing a thicker skin because of the inevitable blowback for his past indiscretions.

I thought he looked quite good standing next to the Mexican President. You could imagine him looking and behaving quite normal in meetings with other leaders (if you squint your eyes).

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I've been attempting half heartedly to validate the core of this claim, but I'm not finding the stats I'm looking for. My Google fu is weak today, I guess.

The specific stats I'm looking for:

• 
  Percentage of new business filing that end in bankruptcy within (5 or 8) years.
• Percentage of existing businesses of arbitrary size category that have declared bankruptcy on the core business, as opposed to on a subsidiary business purchased by a company to bundle all the parent company's debts in one place.
• Percentage of small businesses who file bankruptcy that are owned by larger companies that don't.

I've seen the data for these questions over the years. It kinda validates sunmaster14 and logger's statements re business bankruptcy but only kinda. It's a cherry picking /data spin issue.

Including businesses that never really succeed in the first place invalidates your evidence right there. And if a smaller business is a subsidiary, that doesn't count either because often it's a way of shifting assets around or divesting an aspect of a business that isn't profitable.

This is the relevant number and was posted upthread.
WA Po, 2015

But Trump was exaggerating, experts said, when he said that virtually every business leader has filed bankruptcy. An estimated 5 percent of the 500 biggest U.S. companies have filed for bankruptcy in the past two decades, Georgetown law professor Adam Levitin said.

 

[acbytesla]

You can roll your eyes as much as you like, I've never watched one episode fully. Sure I've seen bits of it, but only to hear him say you're fired.

I have tried to let him know that unlike Bush, he needs to fire all the people he can that were hold overs from Clinton, some of Bush and certainly Obama's admin.

You mean stock it up with a bunch of ignorant newbies that will take 4 years to get up to speed.

 

[sunmaster14]

Like when he denigrated McCain? Or when he denigrated Kahn? Or when he failed to deliver on donations to vets until he was busted by the press? Or when he said he knew more about ISIS than the generals?

Hook, line, and sinker.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/225850441342e6236.jpg[/qimg]

Trump is up 19 points among military people and veterans. The support for the GOP among military people always surprises Democrats who think that they can seem pro-military just by uttering a few choice words and by voting to give more benefits to veterans. Human beings, and particularly military people, are not so shallow though that they can't see the difference between a party that truly believes in and appreciates the mission of the military and a party which doesn't. Words alone and giving out more benefits isn't going to change that. It's a bit of a contradiction to say that you support the military but not its mission. Many professionals view their mission as an inseparable part of their being. You disrespect one, you disrespect the other.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Via this, about 750,000 businesses close each year, while about 33,000 business bankruptcies were filed. So however you define "fail," actual bankruptcy is a small percentage of that.

Again with including irrelevant examples of new businesses that never really get off the ground in the first place.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Important to note that was his answer when asked how he would deal with cyber security threats to the US, like the hacking of a major political parties servers by a foreign power, otherwise known as behavior he encourages.

He knows nothing. Nothing. He is like a kid who didn't read the homework and was day dreaming when the teachers calls on him. He just starts regurgitating anything he can think of. The first part of his answer is to talk about the word "cyber" as if the person asking about cyber security was looking for a lesson in etymology, a lesson trump gets wrong by the way. He then pivots to ISIS because they use the internet to recruit so in trumps stumped brain that's the same thing as domestic cyber security so he rattles on about that trying to BS his way through. He concludes with his own poll numbers, a complete non sequitur.

How can any of his supporters argue that he is qualified to be commander and chief when he isn't qualified to take a pop quiz on national security?



Of course! By current GOP standards Francesco Schettino is the best cruise ship captain and Captain Zaharie Shah should be flying air force one... if only we could find him.

I thought he was talking about LinkedIn there for a second and I was starting to agree. Thanks for bringing me back around on that.

And his poll numbers were released on the internet, so still relevant to cyber. At least in his mind.

 

[sunmaster14]

Including businesses that never really succeed in the first place invalidates your evidence right there. And if a smaller business is a subsidiary, that doesn't count either because often it's a way of shifting assets around or divesting an aspect of a business that isn't profitable.

This is the relevant number and was posted upthread.
WA Po, 2015

That's a ridiculous stat. It's like saying only 5% of the people who have lived to 80 have had Stage 4 cancer. Or only 5% of the largest NFL linemen were malnourished as children. Of course the 500 biggest companies are going to have had far more successful track records than the average. That's why they're among the 500 biggest companies.

 

[Biscuit]

Knowing how corrupt Killery is, that is actually a very rational argument. Trump respects the military very much, Hillary has proven many times her co-president and her "loath the military"

Do you believe this nonsense or is this just fun for you to make up absurd claims?

Why would Hillary Clinton and her husband loathe the military? Why would anyone for that matter? It's a stupid proposition that makes zero sense. Again there is no rational argument for a trump presidency. Just fantasy and irrational nonsense.

What makes you think trump respects the military?

 

[Segnosaur]

Trump is up 19 points among military people and veterans. The support for the GOP among military people always surprises Democrats..

You're right... it is a bit surprising that Trump (and the GOP in general) gets so much support from military people.

But the fact that Trump is getting support from the military doesn't mean Trump respects the military. Its certainly quite possible for a person to be completely abusive, but still get support.

 

[acbytesla]

Failing to take the blame with words is of little importance. Just like taking the blame with words is of little importance. Hillary took "responsibility" for Benghazi and her email server, and what does that even mean in practice? Nothing much.

I see evidence of Trump being able to acknowledge mistakes internally and making adjustments. He covers this up with bombast, but he has shown himself capable of making adjustments. He's not in the poorhouse after all, despite dozens of allegedly bad business decisions. He also seems to be making an adjustment in his campaign, which is very promising in my view. Verbally, he's a loose cannon, but words only go so far. And in the end, he's developing a thicker skin because of the inevitable blowback for his past indiscretions.

I thought he looked quite good standing next to the Mexican President. You could imagine him looking and behaving quite normal in meetings with other leaders (if you squint your eyes).

Actually, it's very important. It's a sign of maturity. We all make mistakes and to cover up your mistakes and blame others is something you would expect of a child not an adult.
It shows that you're willing to take responsibility and be accountable for your actions. It allows yourself and others to move on.

 

[Bob001]

Trump is up 19 points among military people and veterans. The support for the GOP among military people always surprises Democrats who think that they can seem pro-military just by uttering a few choice words and by voting to give more benefits to veterans.
....

In the era of the all-volunteer military, service personnel are a self-selected group of military supporters. They haven't represented anything like a cross-section of America for a long time, and they have their own narrow interests to promote and protect.
http://www.salon.com/2014/11/09/you...lling_soldiers_heroes_deadens_real_democracy/
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/05/opinion/the-permanent-militarization-of-america.html

And without diminishing any combat veteran's personal courage and sacrifice, our reflexive worship of "the military" is one of the factors that has put us into the situation we're in, politically and internationally.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Trump respects the military very much, Hillary has proven many times her co-president and her "loath the military"

Really?

So why did he weasel out if his draft?

Or made a joke about getting that Veteran's Purple Heart?


Trump mentioned that he won't cut defense spending in way it is currently intended - which is of course popular with the military.