Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Vixen said:
You just made that up.
On December 18, 2007 Deputy Commissioner Maurizio Arnone and video technician Claudio Ippolito went to the cottage to document with video the spraying of luminol on certain areas and photograph any traces of blood that the luminol might reveal.[1] The areas that were to be covered included the kitchen-living room, the bedrooms of Amanda Knox and Filomena Romanelli, and the large bathroom.[2] They reported seven footprints in the corridor between Meredith's bedroom where she was murdered and Amanda Knox's bedroom. No similar footprints were discovered anywhere else in the cottage. [3] The three footprints in Knox's room yielded Knox's genetic profile and one of the footprints in the hallway contained both Amanda and Meredith's DNA.[4]
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http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Luminol_Traces
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Just for the record:
Transcript May 8th,2009 (page 84)
PUBBLICO MINISTERO (DOTT.SSA COMODI): Allora io volevo precisare
questo. I due signori che abbiamo chiamato oggi, e cioè Arnone prima e adesso il signor Ippolito, sono quelli che hanno materialmente fatto questi filmati e le foto del secondo sopralluogo, non hanno compiuto alcuna attività di analisi, perché le operazioni di prelievo dei campioni, repertamento, ecc, non le hanno fatte, loro le hanno solo documentate.
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Vixen said:
'The Forensic Police are not experts'. LOL. A friend of mine works in forensics and often gives evdience as an expert witness. She has a first class degree in chemistry, amongst other things. To call all police forensic experts incompetent, corrupt and unprofessional is insulting to the profession.

As if any of these people are the slightest bit interested in perverting justice, let alone all of them, according to your preposterous generalisation, dealing with hundreds, and even thousands, of forensic analyses every year.


Take a reality check.


Your claim the prints were not properly analysed is frankly untrue.


Have a closer look at the results again.
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Yes look at the bathmat print your self. Look how they have to draw the line to a point beyond the bloody imprint to get the dimension they want. If you can arbitrarily choose the end point of course you can make a match. It is a bit like drawing in a loop on a fingerprint. Read how you are supposed to match a foot print (the best is by doing an overlay, why did the 'experts' not do that?), it does not say just draw a line beyond the edge of the print so that it matches your suspect.
 
Vixen said:
Fingerprint analysis is done by photographs.

Look at it, whichever which way you can: the footprint on the bathmat in Mez' blood is that of Raff's, as a fact found by the trial, which was fair, even-handed and heard evidence from all parties and expert witnesses.

Accept it.

A trial judge who makes a finding of fact = a legal fact, with the same legal authority as a birth certificate or marriage certificate.

Argue against it all you want. It is sure. A fact.

'Rage, rage...!' ~ Dylan Thomas
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Here we go again. A full year of posts wasted as if we'd not been over this territory before.

A judicial fact is different than an actual fact. The judge's role in fact finding, esp. when dealing with the results of conflicting expert testimony, is detailed in the Marasca/Bruno report.

It's the reason why the Nencini conviction was annulled.
 
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Remember the dactylologists were paid consultants of the prosecution not carrying out the analysis as part of their police duties. They were what is commonly termed in these discussions paid shills. (One day I must look up what a shill is.) The prosecution paid them to 'find' evidence against the suspects. I have never thought that everyone or everything was corrupt. Mostly it was group think and incompetence. Even Steffanoni was I think well intentioned but incompetent. Bohemia and Rinaldi were so incompetent it is hard to believe they were not malevolent in their actions.
 
Bill Williams said:
Here we go again. A full year of posts wasted as if we'd not been over this territory before.

A judicial fact is different than an actual fact. The judge's role in fact finding, esp. when dealing with the results of conflicting expert testimony, is detailed in the Marasca/Bruno report.

It's the reason why the Nencini conviction was annulled.
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The actual fact is, Amanda and Raff were there and were involved directly in the murder. That is why they wanted her various confessions barred as evidence and why Raff refused to testify at all, having signed a statement with the police Amanda was not with him between 20:45 and 01:00.

His DNA is on the bra clasp and is not transferred from anywhere else in the cottage, the DNA on the cigarette butt - the only other one - is a mixed Amanda/Raff one, and thus cannot have come from there.

His footprints and Amanda's are highlighted by luminol, and it is Mez' blood that is highlighted by it, not horseradish sauce.
 
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Vixen said:
Well, no, they're the photographers, and I am sure, highly qualified and know how to set the lenses, contrast, focal distance, et cetera, and I am sure they have a top of the range spectrometer.

Oh, don't tell me, the spectrometer was also bent.
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Well they absolutely do not have a top of the range spectrometer, in fact they had none. There are pictures of them doing the biz, no spectrometer; have you found out what it is yet?

This looks like what you would need.
http://www.edmundoptics.com/testing-detection/spectroscopy/ccd-based-fluorescence-spectrometer/3442/
 
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Planigale said:
Remember the dactylologists were paid consultants of the prosecution not carrying out the analysis as part of their police duties. They were what is commonly termed in these discussions paid shills. (One day I must look up what a shill is.) The prosecution paid them to 'find' evidence against the suspects. I have never thought that everyone or everything was corrupt. Mostly it was group think and incompetence. Even Steffanoni was I think well intentioned but incompetent. Bohemia and Rinaldi were so incompetent it is hard to believe they were not malevolent in their actions.
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You don't know what a shill is? It derives from a common scam in early 20th Century America to get an unsuspecting 'mark' to part with his money by setting up bogus 'stores' where everyone in the store was a 'shill' pretending to be genuine investors, workers or gamblers, just like the unwary mark. the mark hands his money over, encouraged by the excitement of the shills and when he returns the next day, the store has vanished, lock, stock and barrel, together with his money.

Likewise, Gogerty Marriott shills, bombard boards like these, amazon reviews and newspaper comments pages, pretending to be the 'general public' convinced of the kids' innocence. They are given PR scripts and 'explanations' for every piece of damning evidence.


They aim to give the illusion they are the voice of the public, but are really paid or unpaid 'influencers' and 'persuaders' of public opinion. We have had shill documentaries, webpages, press releases, et cetera strategically designed to reinvent the convict's reputation as a hard-done by innocent.

Nigel Scott a fervent Knoxite, has even described the entire police force of Italy as having 'negative empathy' with Amanda in his book with apologist Anderson, posing as neutral objective 'doctors of medicine' and 'DNA experts', when the real aim is a mass advertising exercise.
 
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Vixen said:
You don't know what a shill is? It derives from a common scam in early 20th Century America to get an unsuspecting 'mark' to part with his money by setting up bogus 'stores' where everyone in the store was a 'shill' pretending to be genuine investors, workers or gamblers, just like the unwary mark. the mark hands his money over, encouraged by the excitement of the shills and when he returns the next day, the store has vanished, lock, stock and barrel, together with his money.

Likewise, Gogerty Marriott shills, bombard boards like these, amazon reviews and newspaper comments pages, pretending to be the 'general public' convinced of the kids' innocence. They are given PR scripts and 'explanations' for every piece of damning evidence.

They aim to give the illusion they are the voice of the public, but are really paid or unpaid 'influencers' and 'persuaders' of public opinion. We have had shill documentaries, webpages, press releases, et cetera strategically designed to reinvent the convict's reputation as a hard-done by innocent.

Nigel Scott a fervent Knoxite, has even described the entire police force of Italy as having 'negative empathy' with Amanda in his book with apologist Anderson, posing as neutral objective 'doctors of medicine' and 'DNA experts', when the real aim is a mass advertising exercise.
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Do you really believe this? That there were a number of paid posters working to a 'script'? Paid by Gogerty Marriott?
 
Vixen said:
The actual fact is, Amanda and Raff were there and were involved directly in the murder. That is why they wanted her various confessions barred as evidence and why Raff refused to testify at all, having signed a statement with the police Amanda was not with him between 20:45 and 01:00.

His DNA is on the bra clasp and is not transferred from anywhere else in the cottage, the DNA on the cigarette butt - the only other one - is a mixed Amanda/Raff one, and thus cannot have come from there.

His footprints and Amanda's are highlighted by luminol, and it is Mez' blood that is highlighted by it, not horseradish sauce.
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Most people not desperate to believe a preordained theory aren't gullible enough to believe the amorphous blob stains found in luminol happen to exactly match the very people the prosecution is desperate to prove they match, just because the prosecution says so. I mean how convenient that the stains are said to be compatible with both Raffaele AND Amanda, lol.

Since the stains are all made by a right foot I think it's likely the stains belong to the same person, occams razor until proven otherwise. The PGP would be better off going forward with that theory rather than trying to squeeze too much out of the blobs and being too easily dismissed.

Nevertheless, you're never going to get a conviction out of blood negative DNA negative stains that are merely at best "not entirely incompatible" with a certain foot, so it's hardly worth the fuss.
 
bagels said:
Most people not desperate to believe a preordained theory aren't gullible enough to believe the amorphous blob stains found in luminol happen to exactly match the very people the prosecution is desperate to prove they match, just because the prosecution says so. I mean how convenient that the stains are said to be compatible with both Raffaele AND Amanda, lol.

Since the stains are all made by a right foot I think it's likely the stains belong to the same person, occams razor until proven otherwise. The PGP would be better off going forward with that theory rather than trying to squeeze too much out of the blobs and being too easily dismissed.

Nevertheless, you're never going to get a conviction out of blood negative DNA negative stains that are merely at best "not entirely incompatible" with a certain foot, so it's hardly worth the fuss.
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Even this is uncertain. Some of the stains may be attributable to another person's right foot.
 
Vixen said:
The actual fact is, Amanda and Raff were there and were involved directly in the murder. That is why they wanted her various confessions barred as evidence and why Raff refused to testify at all, having signed a statement with the police Amanda was not with him between 20:45 and 01:00.

His DNA is on the bra clasp and is not transferred from anywhere else in the cottage, the DNA on the cigarette butt - the only other one - is a mixed Amanda/Raff one, and thus cannot have come from there.

His footprints and Amanda's are highlighted by luminol, and it is Mez' blood that is highlighted by it, not horseradish sauce.
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Meanwhile, back in reality, the Marasca-Bruno panel annulled the convictions thusly:

In other words, the use of logic and intuition cannot, in any way, compensate for the lack of evidence or the inefficiency of the investigations.

Faced with missing, insufficient or contradictory evidence, the judge should simply accept it and issue a verdict of acquittal, according to Article 530, section 2 of the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure, even if he is really convinced of the guilt of the defendant.

There are, furthermore, patent [factual] errors in the reasoning of the ruling under examination. Along these lines, the assertion made on page 321, according to which, Sollecito’s DNA was found, along with Kercher’s, in the imperceptible striations on the knife deemed to be the murder weapon (Exhibit 36), is absolutely groundless.​
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Don't you live the way that Marasca-Bruno ridiculed both Stefanoni AND Nencini by referring to the striations as "imperceptible"!?

Why you keep on going, simply cycling back to long-since debunked factoids, is beyond me.

But here we go again. You will probably repost that picture of the first-floor window, below Filomena's second floor window. You should have it on file. You know - the one you said did not have bars on the window, when the bars were there for all to see.

Rather than continue with your nonsense above - why not present one forensic-DNA expert who sides with Stefanoni. One will do.
 
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Vixen said:
The actual fact is, Amanda and Raff were there and were involved directly in the murder. That is why they wanted her various confessions barred as evidence and why Raff refused to testify at all, having signed a statement with the police Amanda was not with him between 20:45 and 01:00.

His DNA is on the bra clasp and is not transferred from anywhere else in the cottage, the DNA on the cigarette butt - the only other one - is a mixed Amanda/Raff one, and thus cannot have come from there.

His footprints and Amanda's are highlighted by luminol, and it is Mez' blood that is highlighted by it, not horseradish sauce.
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If all this had been proved beyond a reasonable doubt, their conviction would have been upheld by Marasca-Bruno. At the very least, they would have returned the case to a lower court. They did neither. They acquitted Knox and Sollecito while heavily criticizing the prosecution and police. Why is that? Were Marasca-Bruno paid shills, too?
 
Vixen said:
You don't know what a shill is? It derives from a common scam in early 20th Century America to get an unsuspecting 'mark' to part with his money by setting up bogus 'stores' where everyone in the store was a 'shill' pretending to be genuine investors, workers or gamblers, just like the unwary mark. the mark hands his money over, encouraged by the excitement of the shills and when he returns the next day, the store has vanished, lock, stock and barrel, together with his money.

Likewise, Gogerty Marriott shills, bombard boards like these, amazon reviews and newspaper comments pages, pretending to be the 'general public' convinced of the kids' innocence. They are given PR scripts and 'explanations' for every piece of damning evidence.


They aim to give the illusion they are the voice of the public, but are really paid or unpaid 'influencers' and 'persuaders' of public opinion. We have had shill documentaries, webpages, press releases, et cetera strategically designed to reinvent the convict's reputation as a hard-done by innocent.

Nigel Scott a fervent Knoxite, has even described the entire police force of Italy as having 'negative empathy' with Amanda in his book with apologist Anderson, posing as neutral objective 'doctors of medicine' and 'DNA experts', when the real aim is a mass advertising exercise.
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Darn! You found me out! It was my "shill money" that paid for my daughter's university. Thank goodness she graduated as the money is drying up now since the final acquittal. Now I'm only being paid in gift-cards to Amazon.

The truth is, TJMK, PMF and TMOMK are the paid shills. Mignini, Comodi, Giobbi, Stefanoni et al are paying the likes of Harry Rag, Machiavelli, Naseer Ahmad, Peggy Ganong, etc to post ridiculous and scurrilous lies against two innocent people. CCTV and Joe Zoo do it just for the fun of it. They don't require monetary compensation. Massei and Nencini were paid off to convict with new Fiats and gift cards to The Spaghetti Factory and The Olive Garden.
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Do you have any idea just how ridiculous you sound? I doubt it.
 
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Stacyhs said:
Darn! You found me out! It was my "shill money" that paid for my daughter's university. Thank goodness she graduated as the money is drying up now since the final acquittal. Now I'm only being paid in gift-cards to Amazon.

The truth is, TJMK, PMF and TMOMK are the paid shills. Mignini, Comodi, Giobbi, Stefanoni et al are paying the likes of Harry Rag, Machiavelli, Naseer Ahmad, Peggy Ganong, etc to post ridiculous and scurrilous lies against two innocent people. CCTV and Joe Zoo do it just for the fun of it. They don't require monetary compensation. Massei and Nencini were paid off to convict with new Fiats and gift cards to The Spaghetti Factory and The Olive Garden.
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Do you have any idea just how ridiculous you sound? I doubt it.
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It is a fact Curt Knox invested US$2m in Gogerty-Marriott to PR for his sprog.


Now all the convicted murderers are doing it and calling it an 'innocence project'.
 
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Bill Williams said:
Meanwhile, back in reality, the Marasca-Bruno panel annulled the convictions thusly:

​

Don't you live the way that Marasca-Bruno ridiculed both Stefanoni AND Nencini by referring to the striations as "imperceptible"!?

Why you keep on going, simply cycling back to long-since debunked factoids, is beyond me.

But here we go again. You will probably repost that picture of the first-floor window, below Filomena's second floor window. You should have it on file. You know - the one you said did not have bars on the window, when the bars were there for all to see.

Rather than continue with your nonsense above - why not present one forensic-DNA expert who sides with Stefanoni. One will do.
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Marasca did not 'debunk' the evidence. They threw out the DNA evidence, but upheld all the rest; extremely strong evidence even were you to ignore one third of it.


Their MR is defective and they err on major legal points.
 
Vixen said:
It is a fact Curt Knox invested US$2m in Gogerty-Marriott to PR for his sprog.


Now all the convicted murderers are doing it and calling it an 'innocence project'.
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Is this a "fact"?

Show me the evidence to prove this "fact". Otherwise it's fiction. Which, in fact, it is.......
 
Vixen said:
Marasca did not 'debunk' the evidence. They threw out the DNA evidence, but upheld all the rest; extremely strong evidence even were you to ignore one third of it.


Their MR is defective and they err on major legal points.
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Wow! They really screwed up didn't they! You must write to the Italian courts and to the Italian minister for justice immediately to point out these grave errors!!!! If you're correct (and I for one have no reason to disbelieve you), then two vicious murderers may have escaped true justice for snuffing out the life of beautiful Mez.

And obviously if it's as slam-dunk a mistake as you say it is (and again I have no reason to disbelieve you), then clearly it will be addressed post-haste and the Marasca verdict will be overturned. After all, even with Gogerty Marriott's multi-million-dollar war chest, even he couldn't manage to bribe and corrupt the entire Italian criminal justice system. Or could he.......?
 
Vixen said:
It is a fact Curt Knox invested US$2m in Gogerty-Marriott to PR for his sprog.


Now all the convicted murderers are doing it and calling it an 'innocence project'.
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On the one hand Vixen is saying Amanda was so short of money she had resort to stealing Meredith's rent money and on the other hand Amanda's family had two million dollars available to pay a PR firm.
 
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