Trump runs for POTUS / Trumped Up! Part IV

[Armitage72]

I do not expect the visit to actually occur.

"I was invited down to Mexico to meet with their President, but when I arrived, they wouldn't even let me off the plane. It's ridiculous!!"

The implication being that "they" was the Mexican government, when it was actually the Secret Service that wouldn't let him get off the plane.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Why not?

Trump has shown no reason to believe he'll do what he says he'll do.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

This is a serious blunder by Trump: he hasn't given the Press enough time to hype this and send correspondents.

 

[acbytesla]

What address is on their driver's license, and where was it issued? Where is their car registered and insured? What address do they use on their federal tax forms? Etc., etc. Legal residence is actually not just where you happen to live temporarily.

That's all true. I just don't think requiring people to register and vote from their legal residence is part of the voter id fraud. By your standard, there would be no such thing as out-of-state tuition at state universities; everybody would be a considered an in-state resident. And I think it's a real problem that a large transient student population in a college town could elect officials who would pander to them, to the detriment of the people who actually have to live and work and pay taxes there.

1. If you're alive, a citizen of the US and you live in the general area the majority of the time and that includes a park bench, you should have the right and ability to vote there.

2. Yes it is possible that elected officials could "court the "college vote". I don't think there is anything wrong with this. However, I don't see it as very likely, because as you say, the population is very transient and are usually difficult to get to vote.

3. The young are among the most underrepresented and least represented demographic in the nation. So, we have pols that represent the older generations without even considering what that might do to younger or future generations.

For example,

A. College tuition and expense have skyrocketed. They are much more than they were when I was a student or my parents.
B. We pay for Social Security by putting the burden on younger people.
C. Bankruptcy laws exempt the setting aside of only one kind of debt and that is student debt.

The idea that we should prevent any adult from voting is wrong. We need to stop disenfranchising and start empowering people.

 

[bonzombiekitty]

1. If you're alive, a citizen of the US and you live in the general area the majority of the time and that includes a park bench, you should have the right and ability to vote there.

IMO, if you can establish residency in more than one place, you should be able to vote in each of those places. If you live in A for half the year and in B for the other half, why shouldn't you have some say in how both areas are governed? At the very least, you should be able to have a say in local elections in both areas.

 

[CapelDodger]

In the UK you register to vote every year using whatever address you are living at. Everyone is added to the Electoral Roll when they are 16, even though they can't register to vote until 18.

Textbook fascism.

A couple of weeks before an election you get a polling card if you are registered and a reminder letter so anyone at the address not registered can get on the ballot. You can return the form ptovided or go online and register so there are no excuses for not being up to date.

"Remember - Big Brother's watching you".

That's how California does it.

Case closed.

[/irony]

 

[CapelDodger]

IMO, if you can establish residency in more than one place, you should be able to vote in each of those places. If you live in A for half the year and in B for the other half, why shouldn't you have some say in how both areas are governed? At the very least, you should be able to have a say in local elections in both areas.

Vote Early, Vote Often, Vote Everywhere.

 

[bonzombiekitty]

Vote Early, Vote Often, Vote Everywhere.

Just to be clear, I didn't mean that voting in both places should extend to federal elections, especially presidential elections. Though I could maybe see congressional elections if your residences are in two different districts but your vote in each district would only count as a partial vote if you opt to vote in both.

 

[Ladewig]

In the UK you register to vote every year using whatever address you are living at.
Everyone is added to the Electoral Roll when they are 16, even though they can't register to vote until 18.

In the Netherlands it's even easier.
From the moment you are 18, you are automatically on the register for elections.

Whenever an election is held an election pass is send to your main address.
Then only thing you have to do is show your election pass with one of the prescribed ID's (passport, ID-card or drivers licence, which must be not more than 5 years past their end date) to be able to vote.

There are some rules concerning when you want to use a voting place other than the one on your election pass, but even there the intention is to make it as easy as possible for all to vote.

This comment is not aimed at you, but rather is intended for those less familiar with US voting.

There is no federal standard for voting¹. Each state determines it own rules for candidate deadlines, voter registration deadlines, voter registration requirements, voting mechanics (paper ballot, punch ballot, electronic ballot, etc.), the number of hours polls are open, and voter purges. People can propose federal standards, but if virtually every member of Congress is against something and virtual every member of 50 different state legislatures are against something, there is no chance of it becoming law.


..........
(1) Constitutional amendments being the obvious exception. i.e. race, sex, and age cannot be used to bar voting, poll taxes may not be charged.

ETA
There might be many reasons why a federal standard may be less desireable than state standards, but the one that makes me hang my head in despair is the idea that "they want our names so that they can come and take our guns."

MORE ETA
I do not have the figures, but I think a measureable percentage of the electorate does not register to vote because they believe they can avoid jury duty by not registering.

 

[halleyscomet]

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     ALL I CAN SAY IS IS I'M *DEFINITELY*     
     NOT VOTING FOR GEORGE W. BUSH THIS       
     TIME AROUND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      
                                              
     WAIT WHAT

 

[JoeB]

Then again if you have a large student population, why shouldn't they get a say in who governs the town in which they live and study most of the year ? I'm sure there are some smaller towns with large universities where the students represent a significant proportion of the population.

Absolutely, I'm a native of a midwest college town, the city is ~70k and the metro area ~160k while the enrollment is ~30k. That's kind of a big deal.

 

[Donal]

I do not expect the visit to actually occur.

Ya, I'm waiting for the excuse. Every person I've heard who is knowledgeable in campaigning and presidential security gave a long list of reasons why this is a logistical nightmare.

 

[Bob001]

Is that first sentence your opinion or established law.
....

My opinion. (That's what we do here, right?) Laws vary by state, county and municipality.

Apparently you think a student who lives in a dorm should not vote in that state but a student who rents an apartment can vote in that state. Really?

Student status has nothing to do with it. The question is legal residence. Someone staying in a hotel or a vacation cabin wouldn't be able to vote there either, unless it's his only home. A student who rents an apartment, registers his car, gets a driver's license etc. is establishing residence. But someone living in a dorm is expected to go somewhere else when college isn't in session, even during holiday breaks.

 

[phiwum]

In the Netherlands it's even easier.
From the moment you are 18, you are automatically on the register for elections.

In the Netherlands, the government very likely knows where you live. As I recall, you register with the local town when you move there.

It's not at all similar in the U.S. in my experience. We're a little leery of that sort of oversight. Property taxes aside, ain't nobody's business whether I live here or there.

 

[Trebuchet]

Wait. I'm all for protecting and enhancing the right to vote. But we register to vote from our legal residences, which is usually where we pay our income taxes. Somebody who owns a vacation cabin or beach cottage doesn't get to vote there. College students should be voting from their homes, by absentee ballot if necessary, and college dorms aren't anybody's primary legal residence. Dorms aren't usually even where the college mails their grades and bills. If a student actually establishes residence, he'll be able to prove it with an apartment lease, utility bills, a local driver's license, etc. I don't understand why this is an issue at all, and it certainly isn't part of the sleazy voter ID practices that are a real problem.

And Trump's campaign CEO, Steve Bannon, is illegally registered to vote in Florida at the address of a soon-to-be-torn-down vacant house, while he lives in California.

 

[phiwum]

IMO, if you can establish residency in more than one place, you should be able to vote in each of those places. If you live in A for half the year and in B for the other half, why shouldn't you have some say in how both areas are governed? At the very least, you should be able to have a say in local elections in both areas.

Well, there is the fairly obvious point that this gives wealthy folk more power, since they are more likely to afford two residences and spend adequate time in each.

 

[Bob001]

....
The idea that we should prevent any adult from voting is wrong. We need to stop disenfranchising and start empowering people.

Let's just note that we're not talking about "disenfranchising" students. They can vote. They should vote -- from their legal residence.

 

[Dr. Keith]

My opinion. (That's what we do here, right?) Laws vary by state, county and municipality.



Student status has nothing to do with it. The question is legal residence. Someone staying in a hotel or a vacation cabin wouldn't be able to vote there either, unless it's his only home. A student who rents an apartment, registers his car, gets a driver's license etc. is establishing residence. But someone living in a dorm is expected to go somewhere else when college isn't in session, even during holiday breaks.

My kid left her voter registration on my desk to mail when we were taking her down to move into her dorm. She wanted to make sure she voted in the first presidential election she is eligible to vote in. At dorm check-in they had a voter registration booth so she registered at her new home. And that is how she sees it: her new home. For the next four years (plus?) that is where she will be living and the politicians in that area will be representing her interests. Why should she worry about what is happening in the town where she only spends vacations?

You are equating a vacation home to a dorm, where the opposite is the reality. Once kids go off to college their parent's is the vacation destination and the college town is their home.

The only concern would be if she actually voted in both locations. Even being registered in both locations wouldn't bother me, but she isn't. I threw away the registration she left here.

 

[Bob001]

And Trump's campaign CEO, Steve Bannon, is illegally registered to vote in Florida at the address of a soon-to-be-torn-down vacant house, while he lives in California.

The relevant word is illegal. That's an example of real election fraud.
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...mpaign-ceo-stephen-bannons-voter-registration

 

[Dr. Keith]

Let's just note that we're not talking about "disenfranchising" students. They can vote. They should vote -- from their legal residence.

I think one problem may be in thinking that there is one definition for "legal residence". There isn't.

Residency requirements for different aspects of life can and will be different. Some are the same or are keyed off similar criteria, but there is no reason for them to all be the same.