General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

[HDenier]

I believe they have been used in a number of "Courts of Law" in various countries since the end of WWII. And they have stood up to the scrutiny of those courts and proven to be authentic.


Over to you, Jim

Do you think this would win in a court of law:

http://www.inquisitr.com/3400619/eight-nazi-camp-suspects-captured/

Eight Nazi Concentration Camp Worker Suspects Believed To Be Identified, Debate Ensues Over Their Level Of Culpability
August 9, 2016
Brady Hicks

Eight suspected Nazi concentration camp workers have been captured in Germany, and could now face justice for their alleged actions more than 70 years ago.

This comment is laughable

"More recently, however, individuals can be prosecuted — even in the absence of any specific evidence — if it can be proven that they contributed in any way toward helping any of Germany’s concentration camps operate."

Prosecuted without evidence, what are you people sick?

Holocaust itself let even a Jew speak:

"most of the memoirs and reports of Holocaust survivors are full of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic *effects, overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks…”
–Samuel Gringauz, “Jewish Social Studies” (New York), January 1950,
Vol. 12, p. 65




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[LeoMajor]

GRINGAUZ LOL this canard again?

Gringauz was a German Jew imprisoned in the Konvo ghetto iirc. His comment was a reference to the finger pointing and retroactive politicking that he observed in the memoirs of other ghetto survivors. Gringauz was a German Jew and his comments may be seen as a reflection of the prejudice that German Jews were known to hold against Eastern European Jews.

 

[HDenier]

When you people post these hundreds of thousand of numbers you loose me. There is no proof other than rambling verse of these numbers. I doubt these numbers because they are always exaggerated or never even happened..

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[Hans]

"most of the memoirs and reports of Holocaust survivors are full of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic *effects, overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks…”
–Samuel Gringauz, “Jewish Social Studies” (New York), January 1950,
Vol. 12, p. 65

What is the context of the line above?

This quote came before my own comment was posted

Gringauz was a German Jew imprisoned in the Vilna ghetto iirc. His comment was a reference to the finger pointing and retroactive politicking that he observed in the memoirs of other ghetto survivors. Gringauz was a German Jew and his comments may be seen as a reflection of the prejudice that German Jews were known to hold against Eastern European Jews.

Is there any link to original publication? Thanks

 

[HDenier]

The Context is I use it all the time. It sums up my view of the holohoax. I love the quote and better yet it was said by a Jew, you can't get better than that to make your point can you?

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[Ivanesca]

HDenier has no response to his previous false statements being called out. Why am I not surprised?

 

[Hans]

The Context is I use it all the time. It sums up my view of the holohoax. I love the quote and better yet it was said by a Jew, you can't get better than that to make your point can you?

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LOL, you don't even know what 'context' means huh?

What it meant in the real world is what was the context of the words, ie what was in the publication before and after.....stripping out a quote (quote mining) often alters the implied meaning of the author....anyway you simply copied it from another hater and I suspect you've never even looked to see what he was actually talking about...lol

Tsk tsk.

 

[JimRizoli]

LOL, you don't even know what 'context' means huh?

What it meant in the real world is what was the context of the words, ie what was in the publication before and after.....stripping out a quote (quote mining) often alters the implied meaning of the author....anyway you simply copied it from another hater and I suspect you've never even looked to see what he was actually talking about...lol

Tsk tsk.

So now you have a new context quote live with it....
Invented by Hdenier.....It's a great quote as it really spells it out for the HoloHuxsters here.


JR

 

[Nick Terry]

Samuel Gringauz, 'Some Methodological Problems in the Study of the Ghetto', Jewish Social Studies, Vol. 12, No. 1 (Jan., 1950), pp. 65-72

Available through JSTOR, but I doubt HDenier ever read the entire article, as this quote-mine is repeated in several denier sources, most of whom also likely never read the whole article and lifted it from whichever denier first found the quote.

Christopher Browning has an interesting chapter in a collection available on JSTOR Books, whose opening page starts with a discussion of Hilberg quoting Gringauz, so a flavour should be available to all even if you don't have institutional access.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Just lies implanted by Jews.....LOL

JR

You're missing the point "LOL"

 

[Hans]

So now you have a new context quote live with it....
Invented by Hdenier.....It's a great quote as it really spells it out for the HoloHuxsters here.


JR

Sorry no Jimmie but thanks for stating it was made up. However, I suspect instead that it is only taken out of context by his copying it without ever checking on its context. You quy's constantly copy stuff from other haters without checking it causing comedic errors one after another.

lol

 

[Nick Terry]

The Gringauz quote is meaningless for the following reasons:

1. There's no evidence he had actually read a representative sample of the memoirs, reports and testimonies written down by Holocaust survivors up to the start of 1950, so his remarks aren't empirically grounded in any way.

2. all memoirs, reports and testimonies written after 1950, when Gringauz's article appeared, cannot be smeared by this quote-mine, since Gringauz couldn't possibly have read them as they didn't exist yet.

3. Gringauz fails to cite a single example of a memoir, report or testimony in his 9 page article.

4. Nor does he actually cite many memoirs etc in his previous article, which seems to be largely based on his own memory of the Kovno ghetto: Samuel Gringauz, 'The Ghetto as an Experiment of Jewish Social Organization (Three Years of Kovno Ghetto)', Jewish Social Studies, Vol. 11, No. 1 (Jan., 1949), pp. 3-20. There's an approving reference to Mark Dworzecki/Dvorzhetskii's "special study" of medical resistance in the Vilna ghetto, otherwise I'm not seeing where Gringauz engages with memoirs at all.

 

[Hans]

Samuel Gringauz, 'Some Methodological Problems in the Study of the Ghetto', Jewish Social Studies, Vol. 12, No. 1 (Jan., 1950), pp. 65-72

Available through JSTOR, but I doubt HDenier ever read the entire article, as this quote-mine is repeated in several denier sources, most of whom also likely never read the whole article and lifted it from whichever denier first found the quote.

Christopher Browning has an interesting chapter in a collection available on JSTOR Books, whose opening page starts with a discussion of Hilberg quoting Gringauz, so a flavour should be available to all even if you don't have institutional access.

Thanks Nick

I have access to JSTOR

 

[LemmyCaution]

Do you think this would win in a court of law:

http://www.inquisitr.com/3400619/eight-nazi-camp-suspects-captured/

Eight Nazi Concentration Camp Worker Suspects Believed To Be Identified, Debate Ensues Over Their Level Of Culpability
August 9, 2016
Brady Hicks

Eight suspected Nazi concentration camp workers have been captured in Germany, and could now face justice for their alleged actions more than 70 years ago.

This comment is laughable

"More recently, however, individuals can be prosecuted — even in the absence of any specific evidence — if it can be proven that they contributed in any way toward helping any of Germany’s concentration camps operate."

Prosecuted without evidence, what are you people sick?

Holocaust itself let even a Jew speak:

"most of the memoirs and reports of Holocaust survivors are full of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic *effects, overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks…”
–Samuel Gringauz, “Jewish Social Studies” (New York), January 1950,
Vol. 12, p. 65




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Well, Gröning and Hanning were convicted, not without evidence however, and the article explains this, so, er, yes, I think cases in which individuals are proven on the basis of evidence to have participated in the management, oversight, or functioning of death camps or other sites of mass murder can be convicted as accessories. Did you forget to read the article you linked to?

 

[CORed]

Sealed room....LOL With windows in it? These rooms were not sealed tight....

Edited by kmortis: 

Removed to comply with Rule 12

JR

You do know that it is possible to build a gas tight window? Don't you? Aw, who am I kidding, of course you don't.

 

[LemmyCaution]

There's an approving reference to Mark Dworzecki/Dvorzhetskii's "special study" of medical resistance in the Vilna ghetto, otherwise I'm not seeing where Gringauz engages with memoirs at all.

I will give him credit on this - as the Dworzecki memoir is a valuable source of information about Vlinius - and includes evidence about the mass murder of Vilnius's Jews by the occupier.

 

[CORed]

Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oregon, Arizona, California, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri and Wyoming State authorities have proven beyond any doubt that hydrogen cyanide kills people as they have used it to execute death penalties...

Too bad the people executed didn't know that they could lie on the floor and hold their breath for twenty minutes to survive.

 

[LemmyCaution]

When you people post these hundreds of thousand of numbers you loose me. There is no proof other than rambling verse of these numbers. I doubt these numbers because they are always exaggerated or never even happened..

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Jim Rizoli and you have simply ignored a limited, specific problem I presented you with - the fate of the 300,000 Jews taken from Warsaw ghetto in 1942, a problem which revisionist Eric Hunt admits he cannot resolve.

 

[Degeneve]

Thanks Nick

I have access to JSTOR

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/D819WTc.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/rro2wWm.jpg[/qimg]

Thank you. This clearly shows that HDenier has practised quote mining again.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Jim Rizoli and you have simply ignored a limited, specific problem I presented you with - the fate of the 300,000 Jews taken from Warsaw ghetto in 1942, a problem which revisionist Eric Hunt admits he cannot resolve.

Further to this is another problem you guys have dodged: German records from summer 1941 say that there were 80,000 Jews living in Vilnius at the time; by December, according to a German report, there were only 15,000. Tell us what happened.