Continuation Part 22: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

VQA Giobbi actually testified in Massei's court that Knox's perceived (by him) wiggle and subsequent vocalization while putting on shoe covers was one of the main reasons - using his unique "methodology" - he considered her a suspect. And that led to his having Knox and Sollecito ordered in for special questioning on Nov. 5, according to his testimony.

Giobbi further testified that because he intuited - with no forensic evidence for support - that since a burglar would not have entered the flat at the broken window, the break-in was staged. Knox as a key holder and with only one person supporting her alibi thus became a prime suspect. The "behavioral" clues Giobbi claimed he intuited, I suggest, were merely convenient observations to support the initial evidence-free conclusion of a staged break-in and assumption that Knox was responsible for the murder. And this assumption was adopted, I suggest, under the guidance of PM Mignini, in his role as director of the investigation, and the need to find a convenient suspect and "solve" the case rapidly.

The Marasca CSC Panel motivation report appears to present an argument consistent with this "convenient suspect" hypothesis:

You omitted to mention Giobbi is a hard-nosed policeman. A most obnoxious fellow, I am sure, but you don't get to his rank as chief cop, without lots of footwork, exams and crime solving ability. He's seen it all, murders, suicides, rapes, car crashes; he is trained in good observation skills; he knows how wily, scheming and manipulative criminals are. Do you think he can't tell when some female suspect is 'coming on' to him?


Even Rudy said Amanda was giving him the 'glad eye' when he was having a joint with her and the lads downstairs. In fact, he claims in his Maladotte interview on Italian tv recently, it was Amanda he went around for at the cottage.

 

[Bill Williams]

It is not 'dishonest' at all. It is the way of the world. Many criminals when picked up will have chargeable offences as long as your arm. Take a bank robber, you could charge him with driving without due care and attention, driving through a red light, failing to stop for a policeman, parking on double yellow lines, trespassing, possession of a firearm, assault, gbh, abh, tda,blt*, aiding and abetting, conspiracy, harbouring a criminal, worn away tyres, faulty brakes, exceeding the speed limit, robbery with violence, stealing, fraud, money laundering, multiplied by oh, maybe a dozen similar incidents within the last few weeks. Does the judge have time to carefully assess every single one of them? No. Of course not. The charges are reduced to just a handful of specimen charges, with just a brace or three charges, based on the most serious. The key thing is to charge the perp with just enough to lock him away. Hey, he might even be innocent of some. However, it is neither cost nor time beneficial for a court to hear everything.

So, is it 'misrepresentation of the evidence' or is it normal run of play?

BTW what did you think of Bruno-Marasca's (their own original) ruling that Amanda was covering up for Rudy when she named Patrick?


Are you happy with that?

*heh, thought I'd throw that in.

You are misrepresenting evidence and lying about M/B.

 

[LondonJohn]

You omitted to mention Giobbi is a hard-nosed policeman. A most obnoxious fellow, I am sure, but you don't get to his rank as chief cop, without lots of footwork, exams and crime solving ability. He's seen it all, murders, suicides, rapes, car crashes; he is trained in good observation skills; he knows how wily, scheming and manipulative criminals are. Do you think he can't tell when some female suspect is 'coming on' to him?


Even Rudy said Amanda was giving him the 'glad eye' when he was having a joint with her and the lads downstairs. In fact, he claims in his Maladotte interview on Italian tv recently, it was Amanda he went around for at the cottage.

For the second time (since you obviously ignored the first time or didn't understand it) Giobbi did not claim Knox was "coming on to him". He claimed that Knox's swivelling of her hips and vocalisation of "ta dah" outside the cottage was somehow indicative of her guilt, and that he, the mighty Giobbi, had picked up on it with his amazing powers of perception. And he said all this at the time the police and prosecutors were utterly convinced that they'd caught the right people for the murder. They hadn't.

 

[Vixen]

Evidence that Boemia or Rinaldi were "footprint experts"?

Ooops. There's no such evidence. In fact, they employed an embarrassing and toxic mixture of pseudoscience and good old-fashioned incompetence, and made a number of horrific mistakes - one of which was so elementary that even a schoolgirl spotted it. Or do you still believe that the "experts" Boemi and Rinaldi correctly matched the shoe prints in the hallway with Sollecito's Reebok trainers?

Try looking up the court documents:

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Rinaldi_&_Boemia_Photo_Appendix

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Rinaldi_&_Boemia_Technical_Report_--_Italian

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Pietro_Boemia's_Testimony_(English)

Pietro Boemia is a : "Forensic Dactyloscopist (the scientific investigation of fingerprints and toe or foot prints to identify the owner) with 30 years' experience. Has identified between 5,000 and 10,000 individuals using footprints.
Because Rinaldi's testimony on the subject of the footprints was so extensive, the questioning here was going to focus only on Boemia's specific specialty."

You see? They've even latinised his job title.

 

[LondonJohn]

Try looking up the court documents:

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Rinaldi_&_Boemia_Photo_Appendix

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Rinaldi_&_Boemia_Technical_Report_--_Italian

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Pietro_Boemia's_Testimony_(English)

Pietro Boemia is a : "Forensic Dactyloscopist (the scientific investigation of fingerprints and toe or foot prints to identify the owner) with 30 years' experience. Has identified between 5,000 and 10,000 individuals using footprints.Because Rinaldi's testimony on the subject of the footprints was so extensive, the questioning here was going to focus only on Boemia's specific specialty."

You see? They've even latinised his job title.

Ahahahahahahaha!

You do realise, don't you, that this is either a typo or a lie? That the numbers (which are also over-inflated, but we'll leave that for now...) actually apply to finger prints, not foot prints? Or are you still in blissful ignorance on this one as well?

In reality, neither Boemia nor Rinaldi had the first clue about what they were doing in respect of foot print and shoe print analysis. They regressed to pseudoscientific nonsense and long-discredited theories in their woeful attempts, and they embarrassed themselves and the Italian police in the process. Useless.

 

[LondonJohn]

Oh and by the way, you've been told about 50 times now that "themurderofmeredithkercher.com" is not an acceptable or reliable source. Why therefore do you continue to use it?

And the last link has no content. Nice going!

 

[Vixen]

They were all taken to the Questura the same day the body was found.
But the murder happened the night before, and according to PGP gospel, she spent the night and up to almost noon the next day cleaning up the evidence.


Amanda just wanted to get a red g-string and have 'wild sex'.

It wasn't a G-string. And who cares if it was? Thongs are a common and popular style worn by women. But you are right that it was red....with a cartoon cow on it. "Bubbles" wasn't a "lingerie store" as is so often reported by the PGP, either. I'm surprised you didn't use that term.
Just how did the store owner, who sold his video to the media and got his 15 minutes of fame, know what they were saying as it's been reported he didn't speak English?
And who says "Let's have 'wild sex' " in the first place? But it's not surprising that you resort to G-strings and "wild sex" accusations. You do seem preoccupied with sex.

It was Giobbi's perception she 'came on' to him.




Yeah, right. That says more about him than her.

Stacy, do sort out your quote notation. It illustrates the chutzpah of the pair that, knowing they had an audience, put on a show of how they couldn't wait to recreate having sex over Mez' dead body.

 

[LondonJohn]

Stacy, do sort out your quote notation. It illustrates the chutzpah of the pair that, knowing they had an audience, put on a show of how they couldn't wait to recreate having sex over Mez' dead body.

Evidence?

Nah. Thought not. Once again.

Not good enough.

ETA I now notice your disgusting and disturbing warped fantasy invention of Knox and Sollecito a) having sex over Kercher's dead body, and b) wanting to recreate it to relive the thrill. You are one disturbed and troubled individual to be making these sorts of totally unfounded and truly horrific claims for which there is not one iota of evidence. Seriously. A bloody disgrace. You are.

 

[Vixen]

I know Raff got his knife back because the PGP wouldn't stop posting the picture of him holding it lol

And he could not stop posing with it, grinning like a lizard in his napapije gear, scarf and hat, that he had been wearing at the murder scene, as described by Rudy.

 

[LondonJohn]

And he could stop posing with it, grinning like a lizard in his napapije gear, scarf and hat, that he had been wearing at the murder scene, as described by Rudy.

Sollecito wasn't there at or around the time of Kercher's murder. Don't you know that by now?

 

[Vixen]

You are right on R&B and Vinci, there were these two early reports on "The shoeprints"
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...Sollecito-shoe-matching-crime-scene-print.pdf
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c...lice-Ippolito-Manieri-shoeprints-complete.pdf
with the first one by Mauro Capocci stating:

and the second one, by Ippolito and Manieri is getting into the details
matching it to Raffaele's shoes despite the differences and the fact that they only had the photos to work with, even offering an explaination why the print is compatible whith Raffaele's Nikes depite not being a match.

Two things are interesting:
1st: the documents confirm Raffaele's take in "Honor Bound":

2nd: Judge Matteini took that second run on the shoeprints as "confirmation" without question even with Ippolito and Manieri having only the photos to work with:

The translation (google) is:

"Conclusion: By comparisons performed by overlapping / combination is evident that the traces examined, marked with the letter "A", correspond with the drawing (model and size) of the sole of the shoe bearing the mark "NIKE" object of comparison.
This is also demonstrated by some measurements on the images were ricavali the following data (all.ti 13:14):
diameter of the circular track on picna of about 36 mm floor. - The circular element diameter of about 35 mm. of the shoe sole;
size of the empty spaces. measured in three locations, between the circular marks left on approximately 5 mrn floor. - Size of the corresponding spaces of the sole of about 6 m.
size between the extremes of the circular marks left on the floor of cim 87 mm. - Size between the opposing hatched areas of the sole of about 86 mm ..
The minor differences between the two measurements are likely to be determined by the mechanical action of fluid substance.
These minutes will be reread confirmed and signed."


The only corresponding measurements I could find are as follows:

Men's standard shoe sizes:

Size Measurements Joint width/ Joint Circumference/Instep Circumference Toe box space
5 3(11/16)” 9(1/4)” - 9(3/4)” 9(1/4)” - 9(3/4)” 35mm
94mm 236mm - 246mm 234mm - 244mm

6 3(3/4)” 9(1/2)” - 10” (9/12)” - 10” 36mm
95mm 242mm - 252mm 240mm - 250mm


Ladies Narrow lowline shoe sizes:


Size Measurements Joint width/ Joint Circumference/Instep Circumference Toe Box Space

5 3(5/16)” 8(3/4)” - 9(1/4)” 8(3/8)” - 8(7/8)” 35mm
85mm 224mm - 234mm 212mm - 227mm

6 3(7/16)” 9” - 9(1/2)” 8(5/8)” - 9(1/8)” 36mm
87mm 230mm - 240mm 220mm - 232mm


These parameters seem to suggest a smaller foot size, rather than Rudy's imputed 'size 46':


Men's standard lowline sizes:

Size Measurement Joint width/ Joint Circumference/Instep Circumference Toe Box Space

11 4(1/4)” 10(3/4)” - 11(1/4)” 10(3/4)” - 11(1/4)” 41mm
108mm 275mm - 285mm 273mm - 283mm
12 4(3/8)” 11” - 11(1/2)” 11” - 11(1/2)” 42mm
112mm 282mm - 292mm 280mm - 290mm


I assume the report is referring to the above circumferences.

 

[Bill Williams]

Stacy, do sort out your quote notation. It illustrates the chutzpah of the pair that, knowing they had an audience, put on a show of how they couldn't wait to recreate having sex over Mez' dead body.

Wow. Everything is about sex with you.

Whatever floats your boat......

 

[Vixen]

Wow. Everything is about sex with you.

Whatever floats your boat......

Can you refrain from personalisation. This was a crime which involved sexual abuse of the victim and thus the behaviour of suspects is pertinent.

16 year old killer Erin Caffey, who slaughtered her family, together with her boyfriend and other friend, and including her little brother who was stabbed to death through the slats of a closet door as he hid, was in a state of euphoria after the killings and went back to her boyfriend's trailer park to have sex.

There is a physiological link between adrenaline and sex. Adrenaline is a hormone you have no control over. You get an adrenaline rush in situations of danger, boardroom politics, extreme sports and high sexual attraction. Amanda was on such an adrenaline high after Mez' murder and Raff was worried the stain on the pillow would turn out to be his. Enquiring minds need to know why.

So the behaviour of the pair immediately after the murder is germane to the case.

http://murderpedia.org/female.C/c/caffey-erin.htm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...er-her-entire-family-speaks-out-a7012401.html

 

[Bill Williams]

What is the most laughable assumption Vixen makes is thinking that the Marasca/Bruno report was written to justify convicting RS and AK - it's just that they forgot to convict the pair at the end.

To read the thing - actually read the report, putting into context all the gems Vixen plucks out to make her guilt case - to read it fully one appreciates that both the initial investigation and judicial renderings were so flawed that exoneration was the only reasonable verdict.

It's quite the chuckle to read Vixen's posts here. On the one hand M/B is illegal and illogical - on the other hand it was written to prove the pairs' guilt!!!!!!

Me, I'd rather read the thing so that the case can be put into the proper context. Besides, as said before - subsequent courts ruling on peripheral matters reference M/B as exonerating the pair, and procede from there......

....... without the laughable malarkey Vixen claims resides within.

 

[Bill Williams]

Can you refrain from personalisation. This was a crime which involved sexual abuse of the victim and thus the behaviour of suspects is pertinent.

16 year old killer Erin Caffey, who slaughtered her family, together with her boyfriend and other friend, and including her little brother who was stabbed to death through the slats of a closet door as he hid, was in a state of euphoria after the killings and went back to her boyfriend's trailer park to have sex.

There is a physiological link between adrenaline and sex. Adrenaline is a hormone you have no control over. You get an adrenaline rush in situations of danger, boardroom politics, extreme sports and high sexual attraction. Amanda was on such an adrenaline high after Mez' murder and Raff was worried the stain on the pillow would turn out to be his. Enquiring minds need to know why.

So the behaviour of the pair immediately after the murder is germane to the case.

http://murderpedia.org/female.C/c/caffey-erin.htm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...er-her-entire-family-speaks-out-a7012401.html

I am not personalizing. You keep posting things like that Knox and Sollecito had sex over a dead body. You've continued in a slut shaming campaign.

It is not personalizing to point it out. So calm down.

 

[bagels]

Can you refrain from personalisation. This was a crime which involved sexual abuse of the victim and thus the behaviour of suspects is pertinent.

16 year old killer Erin Caffey, who slaughtered her family, together with her boyfriend and other friend, and including her little brother who was stabbed to death through the slats of a closet door as he hid, was in a state of euphoria after the killings and went back to her boyfriend's trailer park to have sex.

There is a physiological link between adrenaline and sex. Adrenaline is a hormone you have no control over. You get an adrenaline rush in situations of danger, boardroom politics, extreme sports and high sexual attraction. Amanda was on such an adrenaline high after Mez' murder and Raff was worried the stain on the pillow would turn out to be his. Enquiring minds need to know why.

So the behaviour of the pair immediately after the murder is germane to the case.

http://murderpedia.org/female.C/c/caffey-erin.htm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...er-her-entire-family-speaks-out-a7012401.html

Meredith came home from a quiet evening with her friends. Her plan was to study for a test and get some sleep. Instead a burglar was in her house looking for whatever he could take. The burglar then confronted her, assaulted her, raped her, and left her to bleed out and choke on her own blood.

Then in 2016 you posted 5000x about two random students because some Italian idiots once had a dumb theory before they caught the burglar.

 

[Vixen]

Evidence?

Nah. Thought not. Once again.

Not good enough.

ETA I now notice your disgusting and disturbing warped fantasy invention of Knox and Sollecito a) having sex over Kercher's dead body, and b) wanting to recreate it to relive the thrill. You are one disturbed and troubled individual to be making these sorts of totally unfounded and truly horrific claims for which there is not one iota of evidence. Seriously. A bloody disgrace. You are.

I see, so Mez was forced onto her knees and restrained from defending herself by Rudy whilst her murderer (Massei ruled it was Amanda) thrust a kitchen knife into her neck three times.

Does it remind you of what those low lives did to the high life priest in Normandy a few days ago?

Then there was Leslie Van Houten, Charles Manson disciple, who held down Rosemary LaBianco, whilst another lowlife stabbed her to death. She then stabbed a dead body.

She has been denied parole 20 times now, whilst Mez' killers roam the streets free, because a bunch of bleeding hearts preferred the lowlife to the victim.

Yes, the crime was an abomination to all right thinking people, but LondonJohn thinks its a 'bloody disgrace' I express astonishment at Amanda's disgusting sexual antics in the Questura - sitting on Raff's lap and dry humping him - and in the lingerie shop with their 'wild sex' proclamation for all to hear and deliberate purchase of a provocative item of underwear.

Dear Reader, go figure which one of us is the 'disturbed and troubled individual'.

 

[Vixen]

I am not personalizing. You keep posting things like that Knox and Sollecito had sex over a dead body. You've continued in a slut shaming campaign.

It is not personalizing to point it out. So calm down.

Amanda said she had sex with Raff that night. If the pair were at the cottage during the murder, as decreed by the Supreme Court and as upheld by Massei and Nencini, when it convicted the pair of aggravated murder, then they most likely did it at the cottage, with Mez' lifeless body nearby.

 

[Vixen]

Meredith came home from a quiet evening with her friends. Her plan was to study for a test and get some sleep. Instead a burglar was in her house looking for whatever he could take. The burglar then confronted her, assaulted her, raped her, and left her to bleed out and choke on her own blood.

Then in 2016 you posted 5000x about two random students because some Italian idiots once had a dumb theory before they caught the burglar.

None of the courts agree with you.

 

[Bill Williams]

Amanda said she had sex with Raff that night. If the pair were at the cottage during the murder, as decreed by the Supreme Court and aspheld by Massei and Nencini, when it convicted the pair of aggravated murder, then they most likely did it at the cottage, with Mez' lifeless body nearby.

Nice try.

For one thing they are no longer suspects. For another, even you admit that the ISC does not determine facts.

But then again the point of this most immediate sub-thread is that you continually talk about sex, as if this were 2008 and this was considered a sex game gone wrong. You've managed to vary from that and still sluttify the post.

By conflating random factoids into something no one but you believes.