Split Thread Signs of the End Times

[halleyscomet]

Is there even one thing that Paul Bethke has gotten right over the years?

Off hand, I cannot think of a single thing.

We have a thread for that now.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11405831

This one is about Signs of the End Times.

 

[GuitKitty]

I find the idea that Jesus wouldn't be recognized, and might evenly be actively opposed, by his so-called followers intriguing. I wonder if there is any speculative fiction out there on the topic.

 

[Paul Bethke]

As may be expected, while there is broad acceptance of the idea that there is only one set of "10 Commandments", the reality is that the Commandments are listed three times in the bible and are slightly different each time. And the style in which they are written down can cause confusion and obviously, differences in interpretation.



This one isn't a command or a rule, this is a statement. It cannot be interpreted as a command, but if you combine it with what you and others interpret as the second commandment, it makes sense as a prologue. It only makes sense in such a case, as not all peoples were in bondage when the word was brought to them.



This can either be interpreted to mean that Yahweh is the only deity, or that there are other deities, and Yahweh must be given primacy. Archeological evidence would seem to indicate that the monotheistic approach only started to gain primacy after the Babylonian captivity. This also gives a bit of a problem to those that believe that Jesus is divine. If Jesus is divine, then how can you possibly honour Yahweh as the only deity? This is what leads to the rather awkward Trinitarian Doctrine (God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit - three aspects of the same being).



Are you seeing this as not committing perjury, or not cursing in general? There are arguments on both sides.



Which one - ie. what day is the Sabbath? Do you take it as being from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday, or do you use a different time? The Bible doesn't explicitly state how to mark the days, nor does it give a definite start date - our current week is the result of social conventions, not divine statements and arguments can be made for any of them with equal validity.



Generally a good idea, especially when under Jewish law a disobedient child can be put to death. I however prefer to not view my children as property that can be disposed of when it becomes problematic for me. I also have general problems with the idea of this being a commandment as there are many times when honouring either parent just should not happen, as when a parent is abusive for instance.



Kill, or murder? I lean towards Murder myself, as the preponderance of killing done at Yahweh's commands in the OT leads one to believe that Yahweh's OK with some judicially sanctioned killing or the deaths of people not his favourites at that particular instant.



I don't disagree with this, as I believe that you do owe your spouse the respect of being the focus of your releationship. Where I disagree with your interpretation is the idea the sex=marriage. I see where you get the idea, but believe that you are ignoring other verses that indicate anything other than your preferred interpretation.



One of those cross cultural constants.



Another cross cultural constant. On the other hand, it is hard to reconcile not bearing false witness against thy neighbour, with the propaganda found in the Bible against neighbouring peoples, and the misinformation that you have attempted to spread concerning black people Mr. Bethke.



A far better version than the one found in the Bible, which equates a wife with a man's property. Also hard to reconcile with the conquest of Canaan and the wars of Saul and David, as what is an aggressive war of conquest if not coveting the lands of your neighbour?

Not bad, not bad at all—but lets it be known that what was inscribed on the two stone tablets known as the Decalogue will be the basis by which all people will be judged.
The END times will be very simple for all to understand.

 

[halleyscomet]

Not bad, not bad at all—but lets it be known that what was inscribed on the two stone tablets known as the Decalogue will be the basis by which all people will be judged.
The END times will be very simple for all to understand.

Discussion about the Ten Commandments should be moved to the Paul Bethke vs the 613 Mitzvot thread as, being laws in the 613 Mitzvot, they'll be discussed there.

 

[Paul Bethke]

Excellent. Since you've agreed to answer the questions, I've created a new thread for the discussion.

Paul Bethke vs the 613 Mitzvot



The same can be said of Christians. Remember, the concept of a pre-tribulation Rapture does not have Biblical support. Millions are eagerly anticipating the End Times under the delusion that they would be spared the tribulation itself. This twisting of the text into a contorted revenge fantasy, where the Good Christians(tm) get to watch the Heathens suffer, has driven a wedge of pride between Christians and the rest of humanity.

Christians will suffer as much as the Jews during the tribulation.

But the rapture will never take place because there will be no rapture—the tribulation will be for all to go through, but it is those who come out of the great tribulation.
John 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.


Rev 7:13,14 Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?"
I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

So the Saints will rule.
Yes Christians will suffer for not obeying the commands as will the Jews and those who have no affiliation to either.

The Salvation of God will eventually be accomplished, then the Jew will be exalted, and the followers of Christ will share in the glory of the redeemed—it will be a glorious time.

 

[halleyscomet]

But the rapture will never take place because there will be no rapture—the tribulation will be for all to go through, but it is those who come out of the great tribulation.
John 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.

AMEN! We agree on an interpretation of scripture!

This is why I proposed the pre-tribulation rapture wack-a-loons be set aside for this discussion. They have no Biblical basis to stand on. The idea of the "good" being raptured BEFORE the tribulation is a revenge fantasy with no Biblical support.

As a final nod to their futile existence, I recommend the recorded Sermon "The Great Snatch."

 

[Craig4]

I must admit I failed to see your great wisdom in the past, but now realize with such great wisdom directed at me, I must surely take note.

True Jesus taught by demonstration, so therefore I must necessarily follow his example, to have people take note of what I say--even the followers of Jesus taught with demonstration, so how can I achieve anything without accompanying visuals.

Act 8:6 When the crowds heard Philip and saw the miraculous signs he did, they all paid close attention to what he said.

So taking note of what you have so wisely stated, I have set in motion something that I will demonstrate in the near future.

I know better than to ask what you are going to do. That said, is what you have planned strictly speaking, possible according to the laws nature? If what you're planning is possible using human art and science then it has no demonstrative value.

 

[Jodie]

But the rapture will never take place because there will be no rapture—the tribulation will be for all to go through, but it is those who come out of the great tribulation.
John 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.


Rev 7:13,14 Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?"
I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

So the Saints will rule.
Yes Christians will suffer for not obeying the commands as will the Jews and those who have no affiliation to either.

The Salvation of God will eventually be accomplished, then the Jew will be exalted, and the followers of Christ will share in the glory of the redeemed—it will be a glorious time.

Have you noticed how you've focused your attention on the punishment aspect of Christianity? I think you need to work on your own violent tendencies before you can preach the true message of Christ which was love and forgiveness based on what i was taught. In this End Times scenario are you a passive observer or are you meeting out the punishment? When you visualize this happening what kind of emotions are you experiencing?

 

[Craig4]

Yeah Paul, been visiting any sick or imprisoned people lately? How about giving clothes to naked people. A few weeks I ago I gave packages of socks and underwear to a clothing drive for refugees in Germany and I don't even believe your nonsense. Seems like your god is different from the one who said you should do that all that help people stuff.

 

[turingtest]

Have you noticed how you've focused your attention on the punishment aspect of Christianity? I think you need to work on your own violent tendencies before you can preach the true message of Christ which was love and forgiveness based on what i was taught. In this End Times scenario are you a passive observer or are you meeting out the punishment? When you visualize this happening what kind of emotions are you experiencing?

Paul has said that he is one of the Saints- put that together with this...

...
So the Saints will rule.
Yes Christians will suffer for not obeying the commands as will the Jews and those who have no affiliation to either.

...and I think your question is answered; the payoff that matters is his own exaltation, and his brand of Christianity a theology of the most basic selfishness possible.

But Paul has another thread to play in now; I doubt questions like yours, or mine about what exactly his "signs" will be, and when to expect them, will be answered.

 

[Crossbow]

Not bad, not bad at all—but lets it be known that what was inscribed on the two stone tablets known as the Decalogue will be the basis by which all people will be judged.
The END times will be very simple for all to understand.

Once again ...

You are talking against your own argument.

 

[Paul Bethke]

Once again ...

You are talking against your own argument.

Not so--the End times are a simple fact that God the God of Israel will rule by his Saints, and justice will be installed in a way that will eradicate all crime.

 

[Border Reiver]

Not so--the End times are a simple fact that God the God of Israel will rule by his Saints, and justice will be installed in a way that will eradicate all crime.

Laws don't, in and of themselves, eradicate all crime. Unless of course you eliminate all law, meaning that nothing is illegal, therefore, no crime.

The laws that you are touting cannot in and of themselves eliminate crime - Adam and Eve are alleged to have broken Yahweh's laws, Lucifer/Satan/the Enemy broke his laws and in both of these cases the causes of these violations are that the guilty parties determine that the laws they are intended to follow are either unjust, or else the reasons for following them are inadequately explained.

The only way that the rule of saints will eliminate crime is to remove the inequalities that often result in criminal activity or to create a climate of such fear that no one dares step out of line. Given the Bible's support of inequality, I suspect that it will be the latter.

 

[Paul Bethke]

Laws don't, in and of themselves, eradicate all crime. Unless of course you eliminate all law, meaning that nothing is illegal, therefore, no crime.

The laws that you are touting cannot in and of themselves eliminate crime - Adam and Eve are alleged to have broken Yahweh's laws, Lucifer/Satan/the Enemy broke his laws and in both of these cases the causes of these violations are that the guilty parties determine that the laws they are intended to follow are either unjust, or else the reasons for following them are inadequately explained.

The only way that the rule of saints will eliminate crime is to remove the inequalities that often result in criminal activity or to create a climate of such fear that no one dares step out of line. Given the Bible's support of inequality, I suspect that it will be the latter.

You are correct, laws in themselves will not eradicate crime, but the penalty for breaking those laws will be a deterrent for others not to indulge in criminal activity.

Just one example that can be considered, there are many, but the purging coupled with the fact that no crime will go undetected, will have a deterring action, the involvement of the Saints as administers will insure that there is no corruption in the justice system.

Deu_24:7 If a man is caught kidnapping one of his brother Israelites and treats him as a slave or sells him, the kidnapper must die. You must purge the evil from among you.

The key to this success is as stated--Deut_16:20 Follow justice and justice alone, so that you may live and possess the land the LORD your God is giving you.

 

[Crossbow]

I think that you have been posting so much nonsense that even you do not notice when you are talking nonsense.

Not so--the End times are a simple fact that God the God of Israel will rule by his Saints, and justice will be installed in a way that will eradicate all crime.

For the above to be true, then everyone would have the same god.

But earlier, you were stating that everyone creates their own god.

Both of your statements cannot be true and therefore for the umpteenth time, you are talking against your argument.

 

[Border Reiver]

You are correct, laws in themselves will not eradicate crime, but the penalty for breaking those laws will be a deterrent for others not to indulge in criminal activity.

Just one example that can be considered, there are many, but the purging coupled with the fact that no crime will go undetected, will have a deterring action, the involvement of the Saints as administers will insure that there is no corruption in the justice system.

Deu_24:7 If a man is caught kidnapping one of his brother Israelites and treats him as a slave or sells him, the kidnapper must die. You must purge the evil from among you.

The key to this success is as stated--Deut_16:20 Follow justice and justice alone, so that you may live and possess the land the LORD your God is giving you.

Overall, the problem is that justice in the Bible is not very just.

First, there is the whole aspect of viewing women as property that should rightly offend anyone's sense of justice.

Then, there's that whole bringing vengeance on the children of an offender unto the third or fourth generation bit. Having the non-cupable suffer legally for acts over which they had no control is an epitome of injustice.

And then, there's the whole - you must believe this way or face eternal punishment bit that I find rather offensive.

Then there's the whole issue that "the saints" will ensure that there is no corruption - BS. Going back to the rape examples cited earlier in this thread, a rapist can get away with his offence if he pays the father of the victim a fine for the damage to his property rape of his daughter - that is not justice. A little extra and suddnely that rape DID take place outside city limits and welcome to the family son...

As for your kidnapping example - just make sure that your victim is not of Israel - say, South African. Using the Paul Bethke rules of Scriptural interpretation, that law only applies in Israel, so the rest of the world is in trouble.

Deterrence, based on the penalty for breaking the rules doesn't work. There have been countless criminology studies that back that up. I've pointed this out to you, and given examples. And you've handwaved away the other part of how deterrence works - certainty of being caught. We cannot guarantee that now, and why would changing over to a 3000 year old legal code make enforcement more effective?

 

[Paul Bethke]

Overall, the problem is that justice in the Bible is not very just.
First, there is the whole aspect of viewing women as property that should rightly offend anyone's sense of justice.

You get it wrong, woman are given the same form of justice as men.---the high regard for marriage is emphasised in the following—
1)Eph_5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
2) Col_3:19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

What must understood is that the advent of Jesus as the Messiah brought the situation in line with the perfect will of the Creator---now that is not realised yet, but when the Kingdom of God is set up all the necessary changes will occur to bring the world in line with the will of God---hence the prayer your will be done on earth.

So then God will not be dependent on man as such, but will see that all complies with his will, which is just.

Then, there's that whole bringing vengeance on the children of an offender unto the third or fourth generation bit. Having the non-cupable suffer legally for acts over which they had no control is an epitome of injustice.
And then, there's the whole - you must believe this way or face eternal punishment bit that I find rather offensive.

If children follow in the sins of the fathers, then they will receive what is stipulated—this is made perfectly clear when God shows that children will not suffer if they do not follows in the sins of the fathers.
( Eze 18:14 "But suppose this son has a son who sees all the sins his father commits, and though he sees them, he does not do such things: )

Then there's the whole issue that "the saints" will ensure that there is no corruption - BS. Going back to the rape examples cited earlier in this thread, a rapist can get away with his offence if he pays the father of the victim a fine for the damage to his property rape of his daughter - that is not justice. A little extra and suddnely that rape DID take place outside city limits and welcome to the family son...

Perhaps you should have looked at the situation from a unbiased point of view.
Rape is punishable by death, this is established---Deu 22:28.29 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered,
he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Now you who show exceptional perception should be aware that this is not a case of rape, but that of seduction—if it were rape then the man would be put to death, but now it is ensured that he must marry the woman, and can never divorce her, so now he cannot just have sex and run off.
(Exo 22:16 "If a man seduces a virginwho is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife.

That is why Scripture must consult Scripture to get the full picture

As for your kidnapping example - just make sur.e that your victim is not of Israel - say, South African. Using the Paul Bethke rules of Scriptural interpretation, that law only applies in Israel, so the rest of the world is in trouble.

No in the Kingdom the justice system will apply to the whole world, this is obvious as is stated the will of God be metered out on earth—so the death penalty will apply for all crime in that category.

Deterrence, based on the penalty for breaking the rules doesn't work. There have been countless criminology studies that back that up. I've pointed this out to you, and given examples. And you've handwaved away the other part of how deterrence works - certainty of being caught. We cannot guarantee that now, and why would changing over to a 3000 year old legal code make enforcement more effective?

No I have taken note of what you have pointed out, but you have hand waved my response---
For rape and murder there is justice, for kidnapping there is justice.

Now you may not comprehend this, but the death penalty can have the effect on the criminal, in him coming to repentance and avert going to hell.

The love of God the Creator is that he does not want people to perish---- Eze 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

 

[Paul Bethke]

I think that you have been posting so much nonsense that even you do not notice when you are talking nonsense.



For the above to be true, then everyone would have the same god.

But earlier, you were stating that everyone creates their own god.

Both of your statements cannot be true and therefore for the umpteenth time, you are talking against your argument.

Crossbow you do amuse me to no extent—there is One God and many gods that men have invented which are no god—so the creation of a man made god does not mean that his god exists---

Isa 44:16,47 Half of the wood he burns in the fire; over it he prepares his meal, he roasts his meat and eats his fill. He also warms himself and says, "Ah! I am warm; I see the fire."
From the rest he makes a god, his idol; he bows down to it and worships. He prays to it and says, "Save me; you are my god."
Now that what this man made—is it a real living speaking god—like Cliff sang living doll!!

Got myself a crying, talking, sleeping, walking, living doll
Got to do my best to please her, just 'cause she's a living doll
Got a roving eye and that is why she satisfies my soul
Got the one and only walking talking, living doll

 

[Border Reiver]

You get it wrong, woman are given the same form of justice as men.---the high regard for marriage is emphasised in the following—
1)Eph_5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
2) Col_3:19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

You've forgotten a few, allow me to remind you:

Ex 20:17 You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

What is commonly viewed as the 10th Commandment very clearly equates a wife with a man's property. And if that isn't clear then

Ex 21:7 If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do.

And if there is a legal issue that requires a woman to testify, then she better hope that Dad or Hubby approve.

Num 30:1-16 When a man makes a vow to the LORD or takes an oath to obligate himself by a pledge, he must not break his word but must do everything he said. 3 “When a young woman still living in her father’s household makes a vow to the LORD or obligates herself by a pledge 4 and her father hears about her vow or pledge but says nothing to her, then all her vows and every pledge by which she obligated herself will stand. 5 But if her father forbids her when he hears about it, none of her vows or the pledges by which she obligated herself will stand; the LORD will release her because her father has forbidden her. . . . . A woman’s vow is meaningless unless approved by her husband or father. But if her husband nullifies them when he hears about them, then none of the vows or pledges that came from her lips will stand. Her husband has nullified them, and the LORD will release her. 13 Her husband may confirm or nullify any vow she makes or any sworn pledge to deny herself.

What must understood is that the advent of Jesus as the Messiah brought the situation in line with the perfect will of the Creator---now that is not realised yet, but when the Kingdom of God is set up all the necessary changes will occur to bring the world in line with the will of God---hence the prayer your will be done on earth.

So then God will not be dependent on man as such, but will see that all complies with his will, which is just.

As I've said before, my impression of Yahweh's will is that it is not just. This is a deity that is perfectly ready to destroy a family to prove to his enemy that the head of said family will still praise him (Job), he's willing to condone genocide, etc. so long as Yahweh is continually affirmed in his greatness by the people he will destroy if they don't.

If children follow in the sins of the fathers, then they will receive what is stipulated—this is made perfectly clear when God shows that children will not suffer if they do not follows in the sins of the fathers.
( Eze 18:14 "But suppose this son has a son who sees all the sins his father commits, and though he sees them, he does not do such things: )

Doesn't follow Ex 20:5 "...for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me"

Doesn't follow the Curse of Ham

Yahweh is OK with punishing children for the sins of their fathers.

Perhaps you should have looked at the situation from a unbiased point of view.
Rape is punishable by death, this is established---Deu 22:28.29 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered,
he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Now you who show exceptional perception should be aware that this is not a case of rape, but that of seduction—if it were rape then the man would be put to death, but now it is ensured that he must marry the woman, and can never divorce her, so now he cannot just have sex and run off.
(Exo 22:16 "If a man seduces a virginwho is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife.

The two verses are completely different and are most definitely NOT dealing with the same subject.

Deu22:28-29 is explicit in allowing a rapist to avoid punishment by buying the girl from her father. I've highlighted the word in the text you've quoted in case you are confused. You'll note that this isn't a case of not having the right word, as seduction is properly referred to in the second quote (which is an earlier text).

That is why Scripture must consult Scripture to get the full picture

And a contradictory picture it is.

No in the Kingdom the justice system will apply to the whole world, this is obvious as is stated the will of God be metered out on earth—so the death penalty will apply for all crime in that category.

The Bible refers to Israel. Unless you are planning to extend the boundaries of Israel to encompass all the world, then it does not apply.

No I have taken note of what you have pointed out, but you have hand waved my response---
For rape and murder there is justice, for kidnapping there is justice.

Now you may not comprehend this, but the death penalty can have the effect on the criminal, in him coming to repentance and avert going to hell.

The love of God the Creator is that he does not want people to perish---- Eze 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

It's not only I that don't understand, but apparently all of humanity doesn't understand it. The deterrence value of the death penalty is overstated. The highest rates of murder in the US tend to be in states with the death penalty. It's almost like the death penalty doesn't work....

You'd think an omniscient being would know that....

 

[Paul Bethke]

You've forgotten a few, allow me to remind you:

Ex 20:17 You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

What is commonly viewed as the 10th Commandment very clearly equates a wife with a man's property. And if that isn't clear then

Are you not just being over critical---a man has a responsibility to take care of his family, so this is part of his responsibility, a possession can also be considered as important---but it does say that in the beginning, Elohim said “Gen 3:16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

Ex 21:7 If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do.
And if there is a legal issue that requires a woman to testify, then she better hope that Dad or Hubby approve.

So what is wrong with that, the father and husband are responsible for the actions of his family. The family is a unit and there should be consensus.

Today children act without the approval of the parents, and end up lying.
Now you being a person of order seems to be advocating anarchy.

Num 30:1-16 When a man makes a vow to the LORD or takes an oath to obligate himself by a pledge, he must not break his word but must do everything he said. 3 “When a young woman still living in her father’s household makes a vow to the LORD or obligates herself by a pledge 4 and her father hears about her vow or pledge but says nothing to her, then all her vows and every pledge by which she obligated herself will stand. 5 But if her father forbids her when he hears about it, none of her vows or the pledges by which she obligated herself will stand; the LORD will release her because her father has forbidden her. . . . . A woman’s vow is meaningless unless approved by her husband or father. But if her husband nullifies them when he hears about them, then none of the vows or pledges that came from her lips will stand. Her husband has nullified them, and the LORD will release her. 13 Her husband may confirm or nullify any vow she makes or any sworn pledge to deny herself.

So again what is wrong with that—the command to honour your mother and father, means to live in the bounds of their approval. The husband will be accountable for what the wife or daughter says, so nothing can be binding unless sanctioned by the head of the house.

(Gen 28:6 Now Esau learned that Isaac had blessed Jacob and had sent him to Paddan Aram to take a wife from there, and that when he blessed him he commanded him, "Do not marry a Canaanite woman,"
Gen 28:7 and that Jacob had obeyed his father and mother and had gone to Paddan Aram.
Gen 28:8 Esau then realized how displeasing the Canaanite women were to his father Isaac;

So to obey is to please.


Now here is a wife who lives to please---Read the whole proverb.
Pro 31:10 A wife of noble character who can find? She is worth far more than rubies.
Pro 31:27 She watches over the affairs of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness.
Pro 31:28 Her children arise and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her:

As I've said before, my impression of Yahweh's will is that it is not just. This is a deity that is perfectly ready to destroy a family to prove to his enemy that the head of said family will still praise him (Job), he's willing to condone genocide, etc. so long as Yahweh is continually affirmed in his greatness by the people he will destroy if they don't.

You certainly lack the ability to understand the purpose of all that.

Doesn't follow Ex 20:5 "...for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me"

Why do you not understand what is written. Of them that hate me , meaning of them that hate his commands and go on to perpetrate violence, and adultery and murder. (Hos_4:2 There is only cursing, lying and murder, stealing and adultery; they break all bounds, and bloodshed follows bloodshed. ) they are the ones who hate God.

Doesn't follow the Curse of Ham
Yahweh is OK with punishing children for the sins of their fathers.

You show that you have not taken note of what is stated----(Eze 18:14 "But suppose this son has a son who sees all the sins his father commits, and though he sees them, he does not do such things: )

The two verses are completely different and are most definitely NOT dealing with the same subject.

No they are not—one is in Exodus, and the other in the(Deu 1:3 In the fortieth year, on the first day of the eleventh month,Moses proclaimed to the Israelites all that the LORD had commanded him concerning them. ) So here Moses expounded the law, going over what was taught, so the teaching in Exodus is the same as that taught in Deuteronomy.

Deu 22:28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered,
Deu 22:29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Exo 22:16 "If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife.

They are the same laws—as I said if it were rape the man would be put to death. It infers that this act was not violent but consensual. Today so many girls are seduced and left, here it insures that this does not happen.

Deu22:28-29 is explicit in allowing a rapist to avoid punishment by buying the girl from her father. I've highlighted the word in the text you've quoted in case you are confused. You'll note that this isn't a case of not having the right word, as seduction is properly referred to in the second quote (which is an earlier text).

It is not rape, as I said the man would be put to death—seduction is not rape. What is here is that the sexual act that determines marriage was not prearranged with the parents. This is a common occurrence today.

And a contradictory picture it is.
The Bible refers to Israel. Unless you are planning to extend the boundaries of Israel to encompass all the world, then it does not apply.

Now only now you are beginning to see—the Kingdom of God is based on the Torah, and the applicable laws will form the basis for justice.

It's not only I that don't understand, but apparently all of humanity doesn't understand it. The deterrence value of the death penalty is overstated. The highest rates of murder in the US tend to be in states with the death penalty. It's almost like the death penalty doesn't work....
You'd think an omniscient being would know that....

For one the death penalty does work where the criminal is let out or escapes and repeats his crime---God know that the death penalty is a deterrent, that is why in his infinite wisdom he commanded that it be incorporated in the justice order.